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I saw on page 73 of the space marine codex this statement:

"Each Thunderfire Cannon is crewed by a single Techmarine
(see page 71 for special rules). Note that the Techmarine
does not benefit from the Independent Character and
Blessing of the Omnissiah special rules unless his Thunderfire
Cannon has been destroyed."

So does this mean that it can be destroyed, and if so, then does it have a toughness, armor value, or wounds? one thing I thought was that some of the expansions have gun emplacements that can be destroyed, so it might be for that situation or use those rules... any thoughts? It was just bugging me and gamesworkshop didn't answer my question in the email I sent them.

The TFC is unit type: Artillery. Read page 55 of the BRB for the rules on how to treat Artillery units.

Welcome to 40k, artillery are awful :/

Thanks for the help

To actually answer your questions - yes it can be destroyed. It does not have a toughness or wounds values, but has an armour value.

Games Workshop email people definitely won't tell you the exact rules if you don't have the rulebook, and bear in mind that people on this forum are not supposed to quote you the rules either.

They're very, very easy to kill, though.

BlueDagger wrote:Welcome to 40k, artillery are awful :/

No, they're not. TFC relatively are. Lobbas for Orks however are the mutt's nuts.

I don't know what you guys are talking about, my thunderfire cannons bring all the boys to the yard, and then kill them.

No kidding. Especially since it's a unit of 2 models, so if either one of them is in cover, they both get the save. Park them in a reinforced ruin and it's a 3+ cover save for them both.

TFC are fantastic pieces of kit, for the point. Great for removing cheap, lightly armoureed troops off backfield objectives.

WH40k artillery works the same as in any other strategy game... they can blow up anything, are all but immobile and will explode when poked with a dull stick. Most artillery is at least somehow viable in their codex, but none are really game-braking mostly due to how good tanks are.

Mannahnin wrote:No kidding. Especially since it's a unit of 2 models, so if either one of them is in cover, they both get the save. Park them in a reinforced ruin and it's a 3+ cover save for them both.

DO they really get the improved save? In the artillery entry it says that the artillery piece follows the rules for vehicles, so I'd assume it can only get a 4+ save.

Alkasyn wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:No kidding. Especially since it's a unit of 2 models, so if either one of them is in cover, they both get the save. Park them in a reinforced ruin and it's a 3+ cover save for them both.

DO they really get the improved save? In the artillery entry it says that the artillery piece follows the rules for vehicles, so I'd assume it can only get a 4+ save.

Vehicles get whatever save the intervening terrain is worth, defaulting to a 4+ when they are given cover by wargear that doesn't specify a value of the save.

Alkasyn - as above. Vehicles get the same cover same as any otehr model, it's only the difficulty of qualifying for the save that is different.

As such if a vehicle can claim cover from terrain that grants a 3+ cover save, they get a 3+ cover save.

Alkasyn wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:No kidding. Especially since it's a unit of 2 models, so if either one of them is in cover, they both get the save. Park them in a reinforced ruin and it's a 3+ cover save for them both.

DO they really get the improved save? In the artillery entry it says that the artillery piece follows the rules for vehicles, so I'd assume it can only get a 4+ save.

As the others said- you're misreading the rules for vehicles. Vehicles get whatever level of cover save the terrain normally grants. It's just usually tougher for them to get it, since they have to have their armor facing 50% hidden from the firer.

This making my brain work:

Alright - crew is infantry - gun is artillery, and so a vehicle.

If I have my gun and crew in reinforced ruins - and they are shot & hit - my opponent rolls to see if he hits crew or artillery. Artillery would get a 'vehicle' type save, so if it is 50% obscured could get a 4+. My crew is in 4+ cover area terrain - and so could enjoy a 3+ cover save since they are in a bolstered ruin!

Am I correct?

By this thinking an Ork Kannon, under a Kustom Force field would get a 4+ cover save, and the crew a 5+ if they are out in the open.

not Quite; both Crew and artillery are a unit; if a unit has 50% or > cover then they get a Cover save as determined via terrain(or special rule).

This means that if the Crew(techmarine in the TFC case) is given any Cover save, from 50% or > of the firing unit, then the Artillery gets the cover save should it take the hit.

in the case of Ork Big guns, if 50% or more of the grots get any kind of Cover save, then so too does the guns.

Going to ground has 0 effect on the gun(so no cover save what so ever if the unit is in the open and goes to ground).

Ya. It's the best 25 point artillery piece in the game. I like to throw the TM into a tactical squad once the gun dies so he can use his power fist (equivalent) attacks.

Lost Boyz wrote: Artillery would get a 'vehicle' type save, so if it is 50% obscured could get a 4+.

As was pointed out before, vehicles take exactly the same saves as infantry. The only difference to cover saves for vehicles is in how much of the model needs to be hidden for it to count as being in cover.

If the vehicle is a part of a unit, and the unit is at least 50% in cover, then the vehicle will benefit from the same cover save as the rest of the unit.

The default 4+ cover save for being an obscured vehicle is not something that always applies. It's something that kicks in when a vehicle is counted as being obscured by a special effect that doesn't actually (physically) obscure the model, like the KFF. Cover saves granted by physical terrain are taken at the same value as they would be for infantry.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. It seems even though Im playing for two years already there's still stuff to learn.