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Played a game at the weekend where a Wraithlord waiting to be deployed in a dawn of war mission had to take a wraithsight test (even though he was off the board).
He failed it and as a result we deployed him via deepstrike (under the "cant normally be deployed" rules for deepstrike).
Was this correct?

WS says the test must be taken at the very start of your turn but does he have to test since hes off the board? If so and he rolls a 1 what happens?

He can't take the test if he's not on the board AFAIK.. that'd just be stupid anyway.


edit: What's more, if you were deploying the Wraithlord, you shouldn't have taken a Wraithsight test anyway because the game hadn't started! Also, Wraithlord's can't deep strike, so why you thought you should, I will never understand.

He can't take the test if he's not on the board AFAIK.. that'd just be stupid anyway.


edit: What's more, if you were deploying the Wraithlord, you shouldn't have taken a Wraithsight test anyway because the game hadn't started! Also, Wraithlord's can't deep strike, so why you thought you should, I will never understand. ?

But the game had started, both sides had deployed their troops and it was the eldars first turn.

We used deepstrike on him because under the DS rules it states something like "any unit that cant move on normally from reserve defaults to deploying via deepstrike" (or something to that effect).

Ratius wrote:So he just moves on normally and ignores the WS test?

When you're in the pre-game deployment phase, you just deploy everything normally, without making any rolls unless specified in the codex. Wraithsight tests are only from turn 1 onwards.

Wraithsight is a "special rule" of the wraithlord that could result in the unit not moving. As such the rule is IGNORED the turn you arrive from reserve.

Havea reread of the reserves rules, it makes it clear there.

Ratius wrote:We used deepstrike on him because under the DS rules it states something like "any unit that cant move on normally from reserve defaults to deploying via deepstrike" (or something to that effect).

No idea where you got that one from. There is no such rule.


You don't take a Wraithsight test on the turn that the Wraithlord becomes available from Reserve. The Reserve rules state that any special rule that might prevent a unit from moving onto the board on the turn it arrives is ignored for that turn.

Thanks peeps, we'll lay off the booze for the next game.

WEll that sounds like a bad idea! Booze is a great idea for 40k....

Gratz on breaking 10k btw Nos

insaniak wrote:

Ratius wrote:We used deepstrike on him because under the DS rules it states something like "any unit that cant move on normally from reserve defaults to deploying via deepstrike" (or something to that effect).

No idea where you got that one from. There is no such rule.

Pg. 94 of the BRB: "Certain rare units are permanently immobile. If a unit like this cannot be deployed (for example in the Dawn of War deployment), or the player decides to keep it in reserve, it will enter the game by deep strike. This represents the immobile unit being airdropped or teleported into battle."

Gah, I've been here too long - 10k and didnt even notice!

I do like my new title - decrepit is how i feel this morning

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Pg. 94 of the BRB: "Certain rare units are permanently immobile. If a unit like this cannot be deployed (for example in the Dawn of War deployment), or the player decides to keep it in reserve, it will enter the game by deep strike. This represents the immobile unit being airdropped or teleported into battle."

Thanks, I had completely forgotten about that rule. It does at least explain where they got the (somewhat mistaken) idea from.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Wraithsight is a "special rule" of the wraithlord that could result in the unit not moving. As such the rule is IGNORED the turn you arrive from reserve.

Havea reread of the reserves rules, it makes it clear there.

exactly!

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Pg. 94 of the BRB: "Certain rare units are permanently immobile. If a unit like this cannot be deployed (for example in the Dawn of War deployment), or the player decides to keep it in reserve, it will enter the game by deep strike. This represents the immobile unit being airdropped or teleported into battle."

I didn't know a Wraithlord was immobile. I thought they could walk around on their legs. So, if a Wraithlord can move and it's not allowed to Deep Strike, it has to enter the board from the controlling players edge of the table (first paragraph on page 94 in "Arriving from Reserve"). If there is special rule that would keep the Wraithlord from moving on the board from reserves, the rule is ignored while the unit is entering the board (second paragraph on page 94 in "Arriving from Reserve").

I didn't know a Wraithlord was immobile. I thought they could walk around on their legs.

It'd help to read the rest of the thread. Wraithlords have to take a Wraithsight test under certain coniditions at the start of every turn, if this is failed then the model cannot move, shoot assault or attack in close combat and are hit automatically in CC.

Whilst the test wasn't supposed to happen, the fact that it did and it was failed rendered the wraithlord immobile and as such it followed the rule for deploying immobile units that you quoted.

I did read the thread and the OP asked if their rules were correct. My answer was the long way for "No, they were not correct." I was pointing out why the Wraithlord should of been on the board and not deployed using Deep Strike.

Avatar 720 wrote:Whilst the test wasn't supposed to happen, the fact that it did and it was failed rendered the wraithlord immobile and as such it followed the rule for deploying immobile units that you quoted.

Except that the rule quoted applies to units that are permanently immobile.

The Wraithlord is not permanently immobile, and so that rule should never have applied to it. The resolution that actually fits better within the rules in the original situation is that the Wraithlord is available from Reserves but unable to move onto the board, and so is destroyed.

The moral of the story being 'Don't roll for Wraithsight when your Wraithlord becomes available from Reserves...'

Insaniak - except that isnt the better answer. The BEST anwser is that you ignore the test, as it is a special rule that could result in the unit not moving.

Well, if you had to take the test before you deploy, then what the OP did would've been the right thing to do. But deployment is done before anything else, so you'd deploy the wraithlord, then take the test.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Insaniak - except that isnt the better answer. The BEST anwser is that you ignore the test, as it is a special rule that could result in the unit not moving.

Yes, not taking the test in the first place would have been the correct way to play it, yes. As I believe I already pointed out.

If you do take the test, then you have the choice of going 'backsies' or just playing on. If you play something incorrectly, there's no specific requirement to re-wind the game to before the error and replay from there. If you find yourself in a situation where you can't find the rules that cover a situation, you discuss it with your opponent, make something up and move on. If what you made up turns out to be wrong, so be it... since you and your opponent agreed to it, it was correct for that battle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldar Own wrote:Well, if you had to take the test before you deploy, then what the OP did would've been the right thing to do. But deployment is done before anything else, so you'd deploy the wraithlord, then take the test.

The issue under discussion was to do with a Wraithlord in Reserve. It would be beyond pointless to take a test to determine whether the Wraithlord can move after it has moved on to the board...

insaniak wrote:

Ratius wrote:We used deepstrike on him because under the DS rules it states something like "any unit that cant move on normally from reserve defaults to deploying via deepstrike" (or something to that effect).

No idea where you got that one from. There is no such rule.

It's from the last paragraph of the 'Arriving From Reserves' section, page 94. If a unit is immobile and doesn't start the game deployed, then you deep strike it onto the table when it arrives. But it does not apply to the Wraithpord, since he wouldn't have to take the test per the rule already referenced.

Don, AlmightyWalrus already posted that more than twelve hours ago, and Insaniak already acknowledged it.

Somehow I missed it when I scanned the thread. Sorry about that. Gotta start getting more sleep or more booze, not sure which.

It's definitely one of the two. Pretty near all life's problems can be solved with more of one or the other. For particularly sticky issues, Dr. Ragnar prescribes both.

The first time I played Eldar in 5th edition at a tournament - and the first time I used Wraithlords - I made a similar mistake through ignorance. I assumed (as I rolled for two Wraithlords and both resulted in a '1') that they were destroyed as they could not enter on the first turn as required.

It is of course correct that the rule is ignored when entering from reserves.

I still smashed my opponent 250 points short and won the tournament.