Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Lady Malys (sp)
She and the unit she is with are immune to pys effects and abilities. Do would these things affect them? For those that don't know this it doesn't state an effect targeting them, it simply says immune to.

Force Weapons? since they have to be activated with pys powers?
Hammerhand?
Aura that happens from the Doom? (Nid special guy)
Pys abilities that make an area of the table count as dangerous terrain? (Space wolf one can't think of name.)

I would assume it works like Kharn's immunity, where it only negates stuff that directly targets them (which I guess would include the Force Weapon's IDing ability, but not Hammer Hand).

Force Weapons? They would still ignore armour saves but lose the ID ability.
Hammerhand? No change, as the power does not affect Malys.
Doom Leech? Can't affect Malys + unit, as long as it is an actual psychic power rather than a special rule, which, IIRC, it is.
Psychic abilities changing terrain? No change, as again, the power is not directly affecting Malys.

Valkyrie wrote:Doom Leech? Can't affect Malys + unit, as long as it is an actual psychic power rather than a special rule, which, IIRC, it is.

It isn't.

So as it is a special rule it will affect Malys just as normal.

The part about the psychic power making all terrain difficult and dangerous would effect her and her squad if she moved through it, so IMHO I would say that she and her unit would ignore it, because it is not normally dangerous terrain, it is only that way because of a psychic power.

Also, she is a bit different than Kharn. Kharn's rules for collar of Khorne state that it ignores any that target him, while Malys' rule says that she is completely immune to the effecs of any psychic powers, as is any unit she joins.

While I personally would never bother about the Hammerhand thing, it could be argued that they don't get it against her because she is immune to all effects, which would include the boosted strength. But, that would also be quite the debate, and I've had enough of those for the DE vs GK codicies.

Force Weapons? Lady and her squad would be immune to the Instant Death effect
Hammerhand? Not sure. Don't know the power.
Doom Leech? Isn't a psychic power, so the Lady and Squad are affected
Psychic abilities changing terrain? The Lady and the Squad as not affected, and can move freely as normal.

yes force weapons are power weapons with a special psykic ability. so they become power weapons.

I think these circumstances are very debatable. Thanks to the GW Dark Eldar FAQ on what constitutes a unit being destroyed for a pain token:

Q: If a unit with the Power from Pain special rule destroys an enemy unit, does it gain a pain token no matter how the unit was destroyed? For example the resultant explosion from shooting at a vehicle wipes out an enemy unit. (p25)
A: Yes.

To me, that means that any association between any psychic power and Malys is to be nullified. If a Dark Eldar unit takes actions that in some way result in an enemy unit being destroyed, then it gets a pain token. It can follow then, that if any enemy units uses a psychic power that in some way affects a unit with Malys in it, they are immune.

I, for one, would think that a GK unit would not get +1 Strength from Hammerhand against Malys and her unit, as it directly affects the to-wound roll against her. What confuses me is whether a GK vehicle that was stunned but passes its psychic test is still treated as stunned by Malys and her unit? That one is pretty weird...

^ thats a tenuous link at best... comparing a codex wide USR with a Special Characters Special Rule...hmmmm
i can see how you are comparing the precedent, but dont agree im afraid.
HH affects the caster, making them stronger, it doesnt affect the unit being hit, apart from the fact that it hurts more.
and for your last point, are Malys and her unit affected by the psychic test? no, therefore the vehicle will behave as normal

Oaka wrote:I think these circumstances are very debatable. Thanks to the GW Dark Eldar FAQ on what constitutes a unit being destroyed for a pain token:

Q: If a unit with the Power from Pain special rule destroys an enemy unit, does it gain a pain token no matter how the unit was destroyed? For example the resultant explosion from shooting at a vehicle wipes out an enemy unit. (p25)
A: Yes.

To me, that means that any association between any psychic power and Malys is to be nullified. If a Dark Eldar unit takes actions that in some way result in an enemy unit being destroyed, then it gets a pain token. It can follow then, that if any enemy units uses a psychic power that in some way affects a unit with Malys in it, they are immune.

I, for one, would think that a GK unit would not get +1 Strength from Hammerhand against Malys and her unit, as it directly affects the to-wound roll against her. What confuses me is whether a GK vehicle that was stunned but passes its psychic test is still treated as stunned by Malys and her unit? That one is pretty weird...

HH might have a case. I dont think it does but it MIGHT.
Fortitude on a vehicle, no case, it can unstunitself just fine.

Revenent Reiko wrote:HH affects the caster, making them stronger, it doesnt affect the unit being hit, apart from the fact that it hurts more.

So, it does affect the unit, then.

I don't know how to apply her special rule, I don't think the argument I gave is very strong. But claiming that a unit can cast Hammerhand, a psychic power, twice, and then use the strength bonus to instakill Malys, and then say that it doesn't fall under the category of a psychic power that affects Malys because it doesn't target her, does not convince me.

Oaka wrote:

Revenent Reiko wrote:HH affects the caster, making them stronger, it doesnt affect the unit being hit, apart from the fact that it hurts more.

So, it does affect the unit, then.

I don't know how to apply her special rule, I don't think the argument I gave is very strong. But claiming that a unit can cast Hammerhand, a psychic power, twice, and then use the strength bonus to instakill Malys, and then say that it doesn't fall under the category of a psychic power that affects Malys because it doesn't target her, does not convince me.

(genuine question, can you cast HH twice on the same unit?)
i dont see it as the psychic power affecting her, the psychic power affects the GK unit, then they put the hurt on her. I can see where your coming from (a kind of chain of this affects this therefore...) and tbh am slightly more convinced by the ID example if true cos that would be silly, but to me, the psychic power is separate from the attack if that makes sense?

Yes you can. HH stacks just fine.

if a psychic power gave your unit +1 str from the psychic effect, they would not get the +1 strength. The psychic power increases their strength when hitting things, but the unit they are hitting makes it so the psychic power does not work against them so they would get no +x str from hammerhand. The psychic power affects the GK units statline but its still a psychic power thats adding +1 to their str, and lady malys and her unit are immune to all psychic powers not just powers that work against them. RAW Immune to all psychic powers. One could actually argue that lady malys and her unit would be immune to all the GKs attacks that round since they are attacking with hammerhand which is a psychic power and they are immune to all psychic powers. In fact that arguement which is slightly silly actually holds more logical merit than hammerhand is effecting the GKs and not her, since her rule states immune to all psychic powers. Not immune to psychic powers that target her. her rule is nothing like kharns.

if a psychic power caused a unit to move as if through difficult terrain they would ignore it.

Force weapons would have no psychic power effect and would just be a power weapon

the Dooms power is not listed as a psychic attack IIRC so it would still work.

@nos, ty for the confirmation

@Oaka and blaktoof, fair play, im convinced, think im confusing Kharn's rules. my apologies.
in that case, my only quibble is with HH attacks not affecting Malys at all, they would 'just' be power weapon attacks.

I agree it would be OTT to say malys is immune to CC if a unit had hammerhand on them I could just see some RAW person arguing it, the attacks would just be the squads normal attack modes minus any benefit of psychic mojo.

huh?they would be power weapon attacks...

yes, that's what I mean

Honestly I think there has been solid debates on each side of the coin, I could see why HH would work and why some would argue it wouldnt. Beyond that I'm happy to see that the census pretty much agrees with me, that force weapons wouldn't ID but are still power weapons, they'd walk thru a space wolf tornado etc.
I posted the questions to see just how others would look at it, thanks for the great feedback.

The concern I have with the hammerhand example, however, is that it can open the floodgate to other ridiculous claims on what psychic powers 'affect' Malys. It is easy to see how the +1 S affects Malys almost immediately as she is taking wounds from it, but a lot more difficult to apply it to that Fortitude example I gave earlier. If a librarian uses The Summoning to move a unit across the board, can they shoot at Malys? It would be a psychic power that ultimately 'affects' her.

I would prefer they had worded it as can't be targeted by any powers, but they specifically didn't.

Oaka wrote:The concern I have with the hammerhand example, however, is that it can open the floodgate to other ridiculous claims on what psychic powers 'affect' Malys. It is easy to see how the +1 S affects Malys almost immediately as she is taking wounds from it, but a lot more difficult to apply it to that Fortitude example I gave earlier. If a librarian uses The Summoning to move a unit across the board, can they shoot at Malys? It would be a psychic power that ultimately 'affects' her.

I would prefer they had worded it as can't be targeted by any powers, but they specifically didn't.

the psykic power moves a unit, but the unit shoots. no problem
the psykic power repairs damage to the unit it doesnt nullify maly's attack, no problem
hammerhand. the unit strikes malys, but they are higher strength because of the psykic power, problem. The higher strength is effecting her and the rules say she is immune to the effects of psykic powers.
she doesnt nulify the power, just the effect of it against HER. so a squad of GK is in combat with Maly and another squad(not joined to Maly) they cast hammerhand, they are S5 against the other squad and 4 against her. They can activate force weapons against the other squad but not against her.

I am not saying that is how it is worked out. But I dont think the can of worms goes beyond hammerhand and things of that nature.

I've thought about it some more, and have to completely reverse my opinion on how Malys interacts with psychic powers. I now think that Hammerhand WILL let units have +1 S against Malys and her unit.

In order to prevent confusion, I think you would check to see if a psychic power or ability affects Malys when it is cast. So, if you wound with a force weapon, you make a test to see if Malys suffers ID. At that point you check to see if that would affect Malys. It does, so she is immune to it. When you cast Hammerhand, it adds +1 S to a unit. You make a test. At that point you check to see if it would affect Malys. It does not. When that unit wounds Malys, all she recognizes it as is a unit with +1 S, not a unit that has +1 S that was gained from a psychic power. So, she is not immune to it.

Not that this is the be all end all but I did receive answers back from GW.

They ruled that HH would work. The intention of it is that the ability or spell whatever has to have a direct effect on Malys and her unit. Meaning that it has to have a direct outcome on her not that it buffs someone else and then they (though now enhanced) effect her.

Corbett wrote:Not that this is the be all end all but I did receive answers back from GW.

They ruled that HH would work. The intention of it is that the ability or spell whatever has to have a direct effect on Malys and her unit. Meaning that it has to have a direct outcome on her not that it buffs someone else and then they (though now enhanced) effect her.

Call them back and I bet you will get a different answer.

Malys' ability wouldn't do anything against Hammerhand, or Warp Time, or Gate, or any other power that doesn't do anything to Malys directly.

Being immune to the effects of powers does not mean you are immune to the effects of effects.

If a power destroys a vehicle next to Malys, she could still get hurt, and if it's a transport, she can't get into the now destroyed vehicle. If some character gets turned into a Chaos Spawn, it can attack Malys, etc.