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I'm leaning toward a Kan Wall, but I have a nice converted Deff Dread I want to use. Right now it has 3 CCW and a KMB... What can I use him for? I could swap the KMB for another CCW easily...
Tactically, what are deffs good for?

Also, random: can the units carried by open top vehicles shoot out of it?

HOw about this? Get a big mech and use one as troops? Now you have 9 cans and one hamburger.

Deff Dreds are great I run 3 and 6 kans. 2 big meks, so 2 Deff Dreds as troops then a 3rd as a heavy. 9 walkers in total.

I find the Deff Dreads are more usefull than the kans. The kans draw so much fire it gives the dreds time to do their thing.

I run Mine:
CCW+Skorcha
2 Big Shootas
2 Mega Blastas

I find the Big shoota dred and the mega blasta dred out perform the skorcha. I actually want to change the skorcha to double rokkits.

Also with open topped vechiles. If it moves less than 6 inches all the models inside can shoot out.

lessthan1337 wrote:I'm leaning toward a Kan Wall, but I have a nice converted Deff Dread I want to use. Right now it has 3 CCW and a KMB... What can I use him for? I could swap the KMB for another CCW easily...
Tactically, what are deffs good for?

I think it could work fine running alongside the Kans as another related element.

lessthan1337 wrote:Also, random: can the units carried by open top vehicles shoot out of it?

As long as it doesn't move over 6". (Or 7" with red paint).

Thanks for the responses!

Most of my kans are going to get rokkits, I think. What do you all recommend? I'm thinking I'll deck out the kans with rokkits and give all my dreds (2-3) +ccw and something shooty

Grotzooka in kanz man. Grotzookas. I just had a game using kanz for the first time and I'll never not use them ever again. They are freaking fantastic with that 4+ cover save and 3 bazzokas. Though I find that usually by the time you get into range with grotzookas, you'll only have 1-2 left. Still, 2 or 4 S6 blast shots are amazing. Gets so many wounds.

I'm gonna try to run a deff dread later this week but it seems so bad on paper. With low initiative it can't go head to head against other dreads and BS2 means anything but skorcha is wasted. I'd love to take KMBs but 1 shot? RAWR.
I'm really curious how people run their dreads. I'm thinking of doing 2 flamers and 2 dccws or maybe put some big shootas in there.

I have three, all set up similarly-

One with 4 ccw
One with 3 ccw, 1 skorchas
One with 2 CWW, 2 skorchas.

Any other gun is a wate on a dredd, as it will never hit.

I use Kanz as midrange artillery and cover, with the dredds mopping up the troops the kanz have unshucked from their tins. I prefer rokkit kanz, though grotzookas are awesome vs non-vehicular armies like nids.

I also run the kan build people consider useless- skorcha kanz- as very hard to kill (with infantry) sniper/cover lurker mops

I have three, all set up similarly-

One with 4 ccw
One with 3 ccw, 1 skorchas
One with 2 CWW, 2 skorchas.

Any other gun is a wate on a dredd, as it will never hit.

I use Kanz as midrange artillery and cover, with the dredds mopping up the troops the kanz have unshucked from their tins. I prefer rokkit kanz, though grotzookas are awesome vs non-vehicular armies like nids.

I also run the kan build people consider useless- skorcha kanz- as very hard to kill (with infantry) sniper/cover lurker mops

I kind of disagree, IMHO the best thing an ork army can have is more and more rokkits, and then add some more. I run a cross between a vehicle spam and boys spam. At 2k points i have been running 2 meks w/ kff, 120 boys, 9 rokkit buggies, 9 rokkit kans, and 2 dual rokkit dreads. The last game i played one of my dreads wrecked a vindicator with rokkits, shot two weapons off of a baal pred, and killed two assault squads in CC. When I have the options to take rokkits, i take them, unless its on regular boys!

Different approach Just as valid

It would help if i could actually roll 5 or 6 on a dice when using Dredds With Kanz i can roll well, but not with shooty dredds..

I typically miss, a lot, and in any case i prefer my Dredds to be analogous to metal carnifexes, benchpressing tanks and pulling apart heavy infantry.

My Dreds shoot better that my kanz most the time its weird.

My last game my Mista Blasta ( 2 mega blasta dred) took out 2 chimeras and helped with the inards. Mista Shoota ( 2 big shoota) killed a bunch of gaurds men, broke a sqaud even. The skorcha dread didnt do anything but run at stuff =( He might get 2 rokkits. The kanz didnt do nearly as well and I run 3 rokkits and 3 zooka's.

Believe in the BS 2 ! lol

Yes your guys can shoot out of open top vehicles, but you have to measure your aim from the hull of the Vehicle (Middle)

Rogueyopants wrote:Yes your guys can shoot out of open top vehicles, but you have to measure your aim from the hull of the Vehicle (Middle)

Sorry, what's this 'middle' you speak of?

Hull is any point on the hull, not centre of mass

First off, Deff Dreads are awesome when used in the proper context. They will utterly fail if used poorly.

A Kan Wall list is a great place for Dreads, no question. If your opponent focus fires on your Dreads and takes them out, your Killa Kans should be pristine and doing heavy damage. If he ignores the Dreads and focuses on your Kans, your Dreads will make it into CC and start tearing things up. Either way is really a loss for your opponent and makes it difficult for him to prioritize his targets.

Between AV12, Grot Riggers, Armour Plates, and a KFF, a Deff Dread can be a tough thing to kill.

Kustom Mega Blastas and Rokkits on a Deff Dread sound like a good thing, and indeed they might be. For me, it's just a little too expensive for what you get. 30 points for two Kustom Mega Blastas is a lot of points, as much as two CCW. For me, that's too much points for something that is only going to hit on a 5+ anyways, and prevents me from running into CC. 20 points for two Rokkits is somewhat more palatable. For me, this comes down to my personal strategy. Kans are meant for slowly advancing, firing as they go, and then eventually chopping something in CC if they get the chance. Deff Dreads are made for advancing slowly with the Kan Wall under KFF protection, and then once in range, sprinting forward and getting into CC as much as possible.

Ive ran 9 kans w/2 dreds as troops a few times. All those walkers just own things. I could see 3 dreds/6 kans as being a pretty effective list as well.

When I load out dreds I always go with bigshootas on them. They are cheap, and if immobolized chances are decent they can still shoot at things, but skorchas are pretty popular on them.

Kans, Im a rokkit guy, I spam rokkits pretty much anywhere I can think of when I make an Ork build. Puking out a ton of rokkits each turn can be very helpful.

i have 9 kan, 2 dread list, I personally put full rokkits on them (I just hate these vehicles)

if I want to shoot on infantry (I mostly play my freinds that are sm or a sm variant (BA, DA, SW) so I like the insta kill when I hit. Since big shootas, out of 6 shot, you will hit maybe once or twice, he has a 3+ save, so most of the time he passes. With the rokkits I can kill the infantry out right, and shoot at the walker/ vehicle I am assaulting so possibly weaken him.

Thanks guys! This kind of advice is exactly what I was looking for. I think I just found my orky calling: mechs!

Right now I've got 6 kans that I'm fitting with rokkits. I've only got 1 dread but I might buy another one later today... There seems to be some difference of opinion with dread weapons. I'm leaning towards 3 CCW + ...something... or just 4 CCW.
I am also now in the possession of 2 trukks. Do these have any use in a kan wall?

4 CCW can be nasty on the dreads, since that give you 7 attacks on the charge if I am not wrong (A3 + 1 for double CCW (basic) + 2 for two extra CCW +1 for charge) and it will force the opponent to choose between kans (range threat since its bs3 compare to everything else that is bs2) or threat in melee (6 to 7 S10 attacks cannot be ignored)

the trukks do not have any use in a kan wall IMHO. They will zoom in front of the kan, getting out of the KFF range and your boyz will then lose the advantage of it too (plus smaller mobs)

If you put the meks in the trukss, then the kans and dread will be exposed to anti vehicle fire.

In friendly games, I had fun putting a nob squad and a BW with cannon, ard case and reinforced ram to give en extra AV14 to the list. I then put the nobz and one mek in the wagon.

Serder,

The Ork FAQ, unless it changed in the most recent update, stated that the extra attack for 2 DCCW is included in the profile. So the base 3 attacks are really base 2 + 1 for extra DCCW.

Deff Dreads can have a place in a Kan Wall, but in general they just aren't as good as a Kan on a point for point basis. Yes, you hit better in melee and you have better front armor, but you don't have the Squadron rule meaning you need to take Extra Armor, you're a worse BS meaning your rokkits etc miss more, and a single destroyed roll kills twice the fire and twice the CC ability of a normal Kan.

I think Deff Dreads are the best looking model produce by GW, but unfortunately they just aren't that competative (to me).

Do me a favor, though, don't use Grotzookas. They're great against infantry. But so is EVERYTHING in the ork codex. You need Rokkits for the anti tank.

never used I only sped read the FAQ, so I must've missed it, thanks.

Heffling wrote:Serder,

The Ork FAQ, unless it changed in the most recent update, stated that the extra attack for 2 DCCW is included in the profile. So the base 3 attacks are really base 2 + 1 for extra DCCW.

Deff Dreads can have a place in a Kan Wall, but in general they just aren't as good as a Kan on a point for point basis. Yes, you hit better in melee and you have better front armor, but you don't have the Squadron rule meaning you need to take Extra Armor, you're a worse BS meaning your rokkits etc miss more, and a single destroyed roll kills twice the fire and twice the CC ability of a normal Kan.

I think Deff Dreads are the best looking model produce by GW, but unfortunately they just aren't that competative (to me).

Do me a favor, though, don't use Grotzookas. They're great against infantry. But so is EVERYTHING in the ork codex. You need Rokkits for the anti tank.

You're right, they're not as competitive as Kans.

HOWEVER.. once you give a Dread Armour Plates and Grot Riggers it is nearly unstoppable. With Meks nearby you can even repair broken weapons. The other BENEFIT the Dread has over Kans is that they can't be killed by a glancing immobilization hit since they're not in a squadron. I'm not arguing that they're the best thing in the world... they're not. I still think their largest use is sucking up fire away from my Kans, which is great. When / If they make it into battle against something, I consider it a bonus.

Grotzookas are AWESOME. Kans are the only place you can put them, so put them there! If you need more Rokkits use Buggies or Boyz or Deff Dreads or anything else. I run 6 Grotzooka Kans and 3 Rokkit Kans. It works great for me. I can definitely see a case for 6 Rokkit Kans and only 3 Grotzookas.

Also I just want to say, shy away from an all DCCW dred. They are really pricey, and when/if they get immobolized, they are from then on useless. At least if you have 3 DCCW and 1 rokkit/bigshoota you can still shoot at things.

I go the 2 bigshootas mainly for cost purposes. IF I can squeeze rokkits I might try that sometime as I LOVE rokkits. But Ive mangled everything from Monoliths on down with a 2 bigshoota loadout. they are plenty good on their own without the extra DCCW. But as always YMMV

OK, so I just got another 3 kans (bringing my total to 6) and my second Deff.

Here's what I'm thinking:
9 kans with rokkits
2 deffs with rokkit/ +CCW
(and, of course, 2 big mek with KKFs)

this is a personnal preference, but I put two rokkits on my deff dreads, with my 9 kans with rokkits. I do not have the codex but the cost should be the same (or less) than CCW + rokkit combo and you get more range firepower, so the turn he is immobilized, you can still shoot stuff b4 your mek repair's it.

Speaking as a CSM player that struggles a lot against kan/green tide, Grotzookas are -fierce-. You can have such a high volume of fire that they -will- hit. I've had my rhinos wrecked by them, and they wound even plague marines handily.

I'm not so certain about Dreads over Kans, though. At least against my army, they tend to die pretty much the same way to Daemon Princes, melta and Kharn, while not offering the same target saturation goodness.

Sephyr wrote:Speaking as a CSM player that struggles a lot against kan/green tide, Grotzookas are -fierce-. You can have such a high volume of fire that they -will- hit. I've had my rhinos wrecked by them, and they wound even plague marines handily.

I'm not so certain about Dreads over Kans, though. At least against my army, they tend to die pretty much the same way to Daemon Princes, melta and Kharn, while not offering the same target saturation goodness.

the trick is to max your heavy support slots with kans (9) and add two dreads as troops (two big meks gives you that), so you get 11 walkers on the field with 4+ cover save if you place them right.

A Rokkit on a Dread is 10 pts while a CCW is 15. So yes, a Dread with 2 Rokkits will be cheaper than a 2 CCW Dread.

If I was going to use a Rokkit Dread I'd probably be tempted to ditch the required Grot Riggers and Armour Plates that I always install, which would make a twin-rokkit dread even cheaper.

The OTHER reason I prefer my Dreads to be CCW focused is because of "Crew Shaken" results. With Armour Plates, I'm going to be able to keep walking no matter what, but my Dreads get shaken quite a lot. If you've got two Rokkits on your Dread, that's a big inconvenience. If I don't get to fire my Skorcha, I don't really care that much.

Again this is just the strategy which works with my army and how I play, but IMO if you need cheap Rokkits in your army, add more Rokkit Buggies. You can have 2 Buggies firing twin-linked Rokkits for less than the price of 1 Dread with 2 Rokkits.

I agree with giving the dread atleast 1 ranged weapon.

If its 4x DCCW they'll just move out of the way while you chase ( oh and shoot your rear armor )
If they cant out run melee range , they'll just shoot at the AV 12.

If all the Mek does is follow the dred around , that just adds to the cost of the dred....

A dual rokkit or Skorcha/CCW dread w/ Armor and Grot Riggers is 110 points. For that value, I can add 7-1/3 Lootas. This gives me, on average, 14 BS2 Str7 shots. This is versus 2 BS2 Str8 shots (or worse).

It can be argued that dreads are more survivable than the lootas would be, but I have to disagree. The lootas will be back, in cover, and at a range that to hit them you'll have to use anti-tank weapons, which would be the same thing shooting at a Dread. So both the dread and the lootas will have a 4++ from cover. The survivability is mostly a wash.

The dread will be more deadly in close combat. However, it typically won't get into CC until Turn 3 or later, so that part of it's capability isn't being utilized in the early part of the game, which is when you want to bring the most firepower to bear.

I don't think a Dread is bad. I think it's costing is fine, when compared to SM Dreads, I just thing that there are better things you can get for the points.

Nice analysis, I agree.

Dreads shine in CC and your best bet on them (IMO) is to equip them to be BETTER in CC. Equipping them for ranged combat is equipping them for something they aren't well suited for. There are likely other things in the codex that are better that you could spend the points on (Lootas, Rokkit Buggies, or Boyz for Big Shootas).

That being said, 95 points isn't bad for a Dread that is cheap and threatening both in CC and at range. As long as the Dread's Rokkits aren't the ones you're counting on to actually do any damage, because it will miss most of the time, and probably be shaken a good portion of the time as well. If you've got other, more reliable Rokkits in your list, and you want a few more, you could certainly do worse than putting two of them on a Dread.

You could get Tankbustas instead