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Now of course we can model these as 'counts as' Heavy bolters or home brewed, but fluff wise, if lasguns are used because they are inexpensive, easy to maintain, and have a much smaller logistical, why doesn't the Imperium continue that and use multilasers instead of heavy bolters? I am not aware of any fluff denoting multilasers as rare. They are commonly used on chimeras and sentinels.

Expense and mobility reasons. Multi-laser is much easier to transport/deploy in the battlefield.

Harriticus wrote:Expense and mobility reasons. Multi-laser is much easier to transport/deploy in the battlefield.

I think that's what Frazz is saying. If they're so much easier to transport/deploy in the battlefield, why aren't they replacing heavy bolters? Why can't you put them in a heavy weapon team? Why aren't they being fired out the bay doors of Valkyries? Why aren't they hull mounted on Leman Russes? Why isn't Harker carrying around a multilaser named 'Searchlight'?

This was actually something I was thinking about the other day. It is kind of odd.

Harriticus wrote:Expense and mobility reasons. Multi-laser is much easier to transport/deploy in the battlefield.

Exactly so why not use them in HW squads.

I personally think that multilasers require more power to operate than you average heavy weapon and as such the ammo is too bulky to use. Also, heavy bolters have the explosive rounds which are possibly better vs entrenched enemies (?).

Okay, so according to Lexicanum, they use large box power cells similar to lascannons, which burn out and cannot be recharged. Maybe as a result, a box of rounds isn't so much harder to carry around in exchange for armor penetration?

I am really not sure about this one.

How much power does a Multi-laser use compared to a Lascannon?

The only explanation would be that a multi-laser takes more power than the mighty Lascannon, as HWT can take a lascannon

Harriticus wrote:Expense and mobility reasons. Multi-laser is much easier to transport/deploy in the battlefield.

Edit my bad. When you're so old Vorlons are young whipper snapper, you're typing and eyesight can be poor. I meant why don't they use them? Corrected in title.


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daedalus wrote:Okay, so according to Lexicanum, they use large box power cells similar to lascannons, which burn out and cannot be recharged. Maybe as a result, a box of rounds isn't so much harder to carry around in exchange for armor penetration?

Thats an interesting thought. If the batteries are not rechargeable that would answer it.

I'd always imagined that to maintain a steady rate of fire would require far more power than could be man packed. Lascannons proably only fire a few times, but a multilaser should fire more or less continously.

It's also possibly that multi-lasers are simply complicated. They may not be able to tolerate being shoved about in the field.

Well, AFAIK, heavy bolters have a much greater rate of fire than multi lasers.

I always considered multilasers as being similar to autocannons on the battlefield. They are useful against heavy infantry and light vehicles because they have an acceptable rate of fire and a good armor penetration.
Heavy bolters, on the other hand, are useful against large groups of light infantry, where their massive rate of fire is put to good use.

So, I would replace autocannons with multi-lasers. Not necessarily heavy bolters.

Frazzled wrote:Now of course we can model these as 'counts as' Heavy bolters or home brewed, but fluff wise, if lasguns are used because they are inexpensive, easy to maintain, and have a much smaller logistical, why doesn't the Imperium continue that and use multilasers instead of heavy bolters? I am not aware of any fluff denoting multilasers as rare. They are commonly used on chimeras and sentinels.

One reason - they can't do anything against Space Marines, Nobz or Big monsters ( Tyranids for exp. ).

There must be some advantage in production, cost, or maintenance of the heavy bolter over the multilaser.

That's the only reason that I can think of, as heavy bolter ammo has to weigh at least as much as multilaser power cells while being just as bulky and having less stopping power (in exchange for greater penetration).

Simply put?

Variable ammo.

Multilasers can only really have 'energy' fire.

Heavy Bolters can fire specialist rounds that do all kinds of various things that simple energy fire won't.
Things like Hellfire, Kraken, 'Metalstorm' rounds, et all.

Not disagreeing that individual shells offer more customizability with load outs, but there's also really nothing that supports the IG using anything but bog standard mass reactive ammo in their deployments. Stuff like the biotoxin rounds used by Scouts or more specialized sternguard-esque ammo seems far too valuable and expensive to be given to IG.

sourclams wrote:Not disagreeing that individual shells offer more customizability with load outs, but there's also really nothing that supports the IG using anything but bog standard mass reactive ammo in their deployments. Stuff like the biotoxin rounds used by Scouts or more specialized sternguard-esque ammo seems far too valuable and expensive to be given to IG.

Actually, fluff has had them using the various shells. However, the thing to realize is that they're given one or two boxes of the 'specialist' ammo for every five boxes of the 'standard'.
What's more, IG bolter rounds are made using a different process than the Astartes stuff--which is generally produced by the Chapter itself with a loving attention to detail. Think of it as being the difference between 'match' grade ammunition and target rounds.

But there's a balance reason we don't have them on the tabletop. Being able to swap rounds out as necessary could lead to some shenanigans.

Frazzled wrote:Now of course we can model these as 'counts as' Heavy bolters or home brewed, but fluff wise, if lasguns are used because they are inexpensive, easy to maintain, and have a much smaller logistical, why doesn't the Imperium continue that and use multilasers instead of heavy bolters? I am not aware of any fluff denoting multilasers as rare. They are commonly used on chimeras and sentinels.

Agreed. I want multilaser infantry heavy weapons!

Melissia wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Now of course we can model these as 'counts as' Heavy bolters or home brewed, but fluff wise, if lasguns are used because they are inexpensive, easy to maintain, and have a much smaller logistical, why doesn't the Imperium continue that and use multilasers instead of heavy bolters? I am not aware of any fluff denoting multilasers as rare. They are commonly used on chimeras and sentinels.

Agreed. I want multilaser infantry heavy weapons!

Field Chimeras or Sentinels!

There's been mention of multilasers being used as 'infantry heavy weapons'...but mostly in stationary defensive positions due to energy constraints and just the bulk of the weapon. To keep up the rate of fire, it draws down a lot of power.

Laodamia wrote:Well, AFAIK, heavy bolters have a much greater rate of fire than multi lasers.

For game purposes they're equivalent. Heavy bolters penetrate armor better while multilasers wound better.


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Kanluwen wrote:Field Chimeras

I do.

Kanluwen wrote: or Sentinels!

Bah! My sentinels have plascannons.

Melissia wrote:

Laodamia wrote:Well, AFAIK, heavy bolters have a much greater rate of fire than multi lasers.

For game purposes they're equivalent. Heavy bolters penetrate armor better while multilasers wound better.

Ha, ok. My mistake then.

Well, I would go for the power supply problem other people pointed out.

We only see multilasers on vehicles or stationary positions, where ammo supply is not really a problem. I guess it's because multilasers consume lascannon power packs very fast, and thus need a large amount of them to function properly.

Daedalus asked why we don't see multilasers on valkyrie doors. I guess that's because heavy bolters, with their higher rate of fire, are more adapted to air combat.

Melissia wrote:

Laodamia wrote:Well, AFAIK, heavy bolters have a much greater rate of fire than multi lasers.

For game purposes they're equivalent. Heavy bolters penetrate armor better while multilasers wound better.

Kanluwen wrote:Field Chimeras

I do.

Kanluwen wrote: or Sentinels!

Bah! My sentinels have plascannons.

My Sentinels use Autocannons.

Because I'm Cadian through and through! Just wish Autocannon Chimeras had rules that I could use consistently.

Melissia wrote:

Agreed. I want multilaser infantry heavy weapons!

Make Goto Fluff come true...


Yea it makes no sense that multilasers can't be carried by infantry...

Maybe they are just too heavy! From the explanation of a multi-lazer it is basically a laz cannon with extra bits, so heavier than a laz cannon, no? That being said, you used to be able to by multi lazers for guys back in 1st or 2nd Ed. No models were ever produced, in fact they were not even sure how to model them. The assult cannon, Eldar scatter cannon and IG multi-lazer all looked basically the same. The form of the multi-lazer didn't show up until the Chimera model was first released, many people thought it looked strange.

IG weapons seam to be about ease of use in the field. Maybe they don't lend themselves to easy maintenance? More difficult than laz cannon?

The problem is trying to find realistic logic in a system that doesn't really follow realism. The answer really is because GW decided, that's why!

Realism must be retconned into 40K. I mean you used to be able to just buy bolters for guardsmen, then they retconned that.

It would use up to much energy.

Mulitlasers eat up batteried like nobody's business. The size of the battery for a minute of continous fire is probably heavier and/or bigger than an equivilent amount of bolter rounds.

Remember a while ago they had a FW Land Raider with 4 twin-linked Lascannon? It couldn't carry passengers iirc because it was essentially a gigantic battery on treads.

daedalus wrote: Why isn't Harker carrying around a multilaser named 'Searchlight'?

I lol'd

It would be cool if they brought back Rapiers.

Zuul wrote:It would be cool if they brought back Rapiers.

That's a weird one because if I remember the rapier had it's own set of rules that made it different from just a tracked multi lazer.It was the Rapier lazer destroyer and from what I can remember without fishing for my old red companion, it was great for taking out tanks.

Those are cool. I've never heard of them, did they ever have models? I guess whatever forge world made man portable multilasers got destroyed during the Horus Heresy.

Andrew1975 wrote:

Zuul wrote:It would be cool if they brought back Rapiers.

That's a weird one because if I remember the rapier had it's own set of rules that made it different from just a tracked multi lazer.It was the Rapier lazer destroyer and from what I can remember without fishing for my old red companion, it was great for taking out tanks.

Just looked through the red book and it was just a multilaser. I swear it had special rules. Maybe I'm thinking of a different edition. Ah I love going through the old red book.

Yes it had a miniature.

Comparing it to the MP Lascannon...

The Lascannon gets 5 shots out of a power-cell the size and weight of a car battery.

How many shots do you want your multi-las to crank out and how many people do you want to devote to carrying powercells for it?

Thats funny, i thought Las cannons only got one shot per cell? though now that you mention it, it might be a bit hard for a crew of 2 to carry more than a couple of packs for each gun.....

Anyways, Multi lasers should by all rights use more power than a standard las cannon as it is essentialy a laser minigun (and anyone who's seen one fired can testify to the ridiculous amount of metal poured down range). thus i would assume that it would have to be powered direct from a generator to maintain a continuous rate of fire (through a capacitor first probably). this would explain its use in vehicles or emplacements where such generators are to be found.