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I was just wondering what everyone thinks about proxies, as I personally very much dislike proxies, and will not play an army with more than about 3 proxies. I can put up with proxies like normal guardsmen for veterans ect, but i don't like to play any really heavy proxy armies. I'm not that panicked about unpainted models, but proxied, or just-base models really me off.

Depends as there is a difference with proxy and counts-as people seem to have difficulty with.

If they're doing it to test out a new unit before hand or even an army I'm generally fine with it. Better to know you hate it before you sink lots of cash into it. Though there is a line to it of course. No coin armies.

As for counts-as, I doubt anyone should really have a problem with it at all as it opens up a wide variety of themes and conversion ideas. It's still proxying though, but with a decent amount of effort thrown into it, like Ad Mech, Squats, Kroot Mercenaries etc. Even just alternates for units to fit in with their own background more, like human auxiliaries counting as Kroot in a Tau army.

I don't like playing with either proxy armies or "counts as". In terms of playtesting, that is a completely different issue, figuring out which units will work for you is a painful experience. But constantly playing armies that are totally unrepresentative of the units listed is more painful.

I am ok with Proxies.

naturally, i prefer if there arn't any, but when you have new players just getting started and old players moving to new armies, its unavoidable.


as long as the proxy is a reasonable substitute, i am cool with it.

I could honestly care less. When I used to play MTG not so long ago, I would proxy out entire decks. There's tons of reasons why proxies are done and the majority of them are realistic, like others have already stated.

On the other hand, if I see a player using proxies for longer than a month, I start to say something.

Fine with count as, not with playing with proxies other than for testing purposes.

It's this time of the month again, eh?

I mean, these topics can be interesting, but none of it matters when you try to use a proxy at your FLGS.

glue toothpicks to lego men and gleu that to a coin... tell me its a guarsman with a las gun and i'm ok with it

G00fySmiley wrote:glue toothpicks to lego men and gleu that to a coin... tell me its a guarsman with a las gun and i'm ok with it

I'll do ya one better: Cut out a 25mm circle of cardstock and tell me it's a bloodletter. Good to go.

My most common opponents run mostly proxy armies, so I often face legions of paper and cardboard.

Dont like them, dont personally play them, dont like playing against them,.
Having said I wont turn away from a game which contains them, just wont be that keen to sign back up for a rematch.
I'd dig out some pics krzynadchucker posted earlier but its getting late.

I don't mind proxies in two situations:

1. Someone is testing something out they are thinking of buying
2. I ask someone to field a particular army so I can play against it

But proxies in tournaments or prolonged/I don't ever plan on buying the stuff proxy I will typically call someone out on.

I don't care playing with friends or habitual players, but in a tournament obviously no.

I'm actually running a full counts-as army (to be fair it's only CSM counts-as SM) and I've heard very little complaint.

Cerebrium wrote:I'm actually running a full counts-as army (to be fair it's only CSM counts-as SM) and I've heard very little complaint.

Counts-as is different than proxying. With counts-as (even "bad" counts-as) you still have models for things which ideally represent unique units from another codex (e.g. you don't have an army made entirely from stock Eldar Guardians roleplaying as every unit). With proxying, you use non-model things as stand-ins for real models, e.g. the ubiquitous coke-bottle carnifex.

I proxy a lot of stuff with my friend's Lord of the Rings models, mainly because I really want to make sure the unit will work how I want it to, find out the pros and cons of using it, and generally just field test it before I buy it. Proxying whole armies all the time because you're too lazy to assemble, paint, or purchase your models at all isn't cool with me, though.

the ultimate proxy

Xca|iber wrote:

G00fySmiley wrote:glue toothpicks to lego men and gleu that to a coin... tell me its a guarsman with a las gun and i'm ok with it

I'll do ya one better: Cut out a 25mm circle of cardstock and tell me it's a bloodletter. Good to go.

My most common opponents run mostly proxy armies, so I often face legions of paper and cardboard.

Sorry but I can't resist...

1) What's the AP on paper cuts?
2) Do they use paper planes as transports?
3) Since, well, it's all paper... Why don't you just... KILL 'EM WITH FIRE?!

i dont mind them too much. one or two models a game for fun. no tourney with proxies though.

I don't particularly care, my friend proxies his Defier with a chaos dreadnought. I proxy a missile launcher with a mortar. And i proxy A PBS with 10 kroot, who do well as count as because i gave them imperial bits and cloaks and what not.

As long as its a friendly game and great parts of the army aren't proxied, i think its fine.

First response sums up my feelings quite well. In fact, I'm sure I said the exact same thing (with triple the (probably unnecessary (like a triple parenthetical)) elaboration) in at least one of this thread's previous incarnations.

Proxies can be OK, but when you're talking about a squad of multiwound models with different wargear for wound allocation shenanegans, it gets confusing and obnoxious.

If you proxy Boyz for your Nobz, then write on the base their equipment, or put post-its on them or something. Don't tell me, "OK guy #1 with his hand up, he's got a klaw and a shoota, guy #2 with his hand sideways has a..."...how in the blue feth are either of us going to remember that?

I refuse to waste my time playing an army of coins or cardstock. I am a gamers first and always will be but its the minis that sucked me into the hobby abd keep me there (plus Its hard to enjoy the narrative for a battle when your fighting cadboard)

GeckoOBac wrote:

Xca|iber wrote:

G00fySmiley wrote:glue toothpicks to lego men and gleu that to a coin... tell me its a guarsman with a las gun and i'm ok with it

I'll do ya one better: Cut out a 25mm circle of cardstock and tell me it's a bloodletter. Good to go.

My most common opponents run mostly proxy armies, so I often face legions of paper and cardboard.

Sorry but I can't resist...

1) What's the AP on paper cuts?
2) Do they use paper planes as transports?
3) Since, well, it's all paper... Why don't you just... KILL 'EM WITH FIRE?!

I kid you not, we have discussed all of those things in great detail. Actually, the paper raider silhouettes we tote around are regularly referred to as paper planes.

Nothing's caught fire though... yet.

Reasonable and temporary.

I don't mind proxies for a few models, but more than a few units is too much for me.

I would rather play than not play, therefore I don't care about proxies.

I think proxies are fine in casual games. It lets you use units you dont own. Plus, not all of us have the monies to own every single unit.

Patience and understanding go a long way ^^.

I don't like playing with proxies myself (like to have everything as WYSIWYG as I can, thank god for magnets), but I don't really mind my opponent proxying as long as my army looks nice.