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I was thinking up some background fluff for a SM chapter I wanted to make. Is it possible for a Space Marine chapter to be deemed Excommunicate Traitoris while not having changed sides and started fighting for the Ruinous Powers? Only because it just makes the fluff a little more interesting if the marines aren't tied down by Imperial Commandments and such like.
Thanks for any assistance,
Raith

Yep! I believe the soul drinkers are in the same boat, although could be wrong.

The Soul Drinkers are definitely still fighting for the Emperor, but not for the IoM. It's something like that. Basically, they got sick of the Imperium's harsh rule and went rogue, but are not following the Chaos Gods. In their minds, they are fighting for the good of humanity.

AFAIK, they're not the only chapter that have been branded excomunicate traitoris while being utterly loyal to the Emperor. Sometimes, pissing off the Inquisition is enough to have the GK knocking on your door.

The Soul Drinkers were mutated by the daemon prince Abraxes but, at the last moment, rebelled against him also.

Chapters can be declared traitors for thing like going against a decree, refusing to aid the Imperium or for mutations of the gene-seed which, while not Chaotic, are still not acceptable. Combusting Fire Hawks spring to mind...

Thats what I thought. Thanks everyone The biggest problem with Marines is the harshness of the IoM, but remove the IoM's control and you now have a highly efficient, lethal and awesome battle force who are free to follow their own path in how best to serve the Emperor. Just a second query, would they be hunted down, or just attacked when they came across forces loyal to the IoM??
Thanks again,
Raith

Depends what was going on. If they were in a war zone, and they were assisting or staying out of it, they'd likely be ignored until they were a threat or could be tracked down...

They may be hunted down depending on how they left the IoM.
If they get away and regroup they would probably be ignored in a warzone unless they attacked something.

Not to mention the fact that this chapter is doomed to extinction, as they will be unable to recruit new members, and this is assuming they have some sort of means to acquire geneseed. They would also require the personnel (generally members of, or trained by members of, the Mechanicus Biologis) to implant said geneseed and the other SM perks.

So... assuming that the entire Chapter managed to go rogue at the same time, escape with all of its battle-barges and support ships, all of its chapter serfs and support personnel, and a ready supply of Astartes-calibre bolter shells (produced by Forge Worlds, not the Astartes themselves)... yeah, they could make it.

Lacking some of these components, however, basically starts the countdown to their destruction, either from starvation, battle losses or simply being unable to field a fighting force as they have no bullets for their bang-bangs.

They could, of course, raid other Chapters and Imperial worlds for needed supplies... but now you have a full-blown Renegade Chapter, and that definitely puts them in the crosshairs.

Actually some chapters make their own small arms and more commonplace vehicles. Ammunition wouldn't be a problem.
Apothecaries could train their successors to fulfill their role.
It would be fairly simple to find an uninhabited planet and take some of the resources. Battle barges probably have the equipment to make ammo and they definitely have the facilities to repair vehicles...
Gene-seed would be gained in the usual way since no one gives a chapter its own gene-seed.
Basically if a chapter has time to regroup and re-organise themselves they could easily survive.

The Knights of Blood BA successor chapter have been declared Excommunicate Traitoris, but also aren't Chaos-worshipping scumbags. They're just a wee bit too violent for the liking of the High Lords of Terra. Accepted as tenuous allies at best, and even then in the direst of circumstances, a) because of the fearful toll they reap upon allies as well as enemies in battle, and b) because of how the Inquisition will act toward the people who requested the aid when they find out, usually with the execution of high-ranking officers etc....

My homebrew chapter is like that. The chapter underwent a rebellion when the older chapter master died and the power vacuum was filled by a man who didn't want to endlessly fly round the galaxy serving a faceless god any more. He just want a nice planet to sit down on and rule.

Thing is, you can try and go renegade from the Imperium all you want, but when they find out, they'll come after you. And to keep defending yourself you need power, which has gotta come from somewhere....

Sadly even the best renegades fall eventually

Yeah they tend to go Chaos or die/get captured and executed.
However, if they managed to get into a certain part of space they could probably hide out...

I'm planning on doing a loyal traitor grey knights army based on an inquisitor who was deemed a traitor for his actions as they were extreme or not according to the rules (such as when kryptmann abandoned several worlds to allow time to regroup and slow down a hive fleet). Anyway, he's called a traitor but he's out with his deathwatch and grey knights so the other inquisitors order them to take him in; but they realise that his actions had good intentions and were successful and saved many planets so they all become traitors. (Is Krptmann the one who discovered the 'nids and is now a traitor as I may use him or whoever it was for the fluff?)

So now they fight for the Imperium even though they are hunted. However, I may say that the majority of the imperium (especially the less 'stuck up' lower ranks) will not shoot on sight and will just give excuses to any inquisitors that may hear about it.

Some Space Marine chapters have gone rogue, not followed Chaos, and have even been allowed to return to the Imperial fold afterwords. The Mantis Warriors, Lamenters, and Executioners chapters after the Badab War were told to go on a Crusade as penance, but were spared destruction.

It all depends on what they do I guess.

The Astartes may possess the technology to build bolt-gun rounds, but it is unclear if they possess the knowledge to. Also, as the SM are not an Explorator Fleet, I don't think the battle-barge comes standard with a colonization kit or a GECK in the glove-box. It is not the role of the Astartes to find and settle new worlds in the name of the Imperium, merely pacify those worlds as the Imperium commands (either from Chaotic, xeno or renegade human elements). Mining equipment, as well, seems rather... random for a SM to have. Plasma-cutter or similar tools in the hands of a Tech-Marine, sure, but the kit necessary to extract and refine ore? Seems a bit much to me to expect the SM to have that on hand, unless they are known for being a fleet-based chapter on an extended/ongoing crusade.

Now, as far as giving excuses to the Inquisition...
"A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time"
... those low-ranking Imperial fobs avoiding the order to fire upon the renegade SM have two choices: 1) Shoot at the Renegades, 2) Be executed for dereliction of duty.

Personally? I think I'd take my chances shooting at the SM.

Many SM chapters have a chapter forge...
They also have Techmarines...
That's all you really need...
And settling a world would be easy they just need to find one they can live on and build some buildings, they might not do it as standard but Astartes are good adapters when they become desperate.
Mining equipment could easily be made and they probably have some any way to remove wreckage when repairing their own ships.

Inquisitors get a lot of leeway in how they conduct their business. An Inquisitor may allow the SM chapter to go free instead of hounding them until they finally join Chaos simply to survive.

and if a chapter is fleet based they are already mobile.


a Battlebarge will definitly have room for ammo Production. Vehicles can be maintained easy enough and replacement parts can be scavanged.


recruits can be taken from worlds as normal. maybe they wouldn't visit the same world twice, but would perform lightining raids to get Initiates.

There are plenty of rebellious worlds that haven't yet been reclaimed or turned to Chaos that might be persuaded to provide recruits.

Psienesis wrote:Not to mention the fact that this chapter is doomed to extinction, as they will be unable to recruit new members, and this is assuming they have some sort of means to acquire geneseed. They would also require the personnel (generally members of, or trained by members of, the Mechanicus Biologis) to implant said geneseed and the other SM perks.

Apothecaries do this. There's a reason the High lords need to request gene seed to be given to them every so often, they don't have personnel there to do it.

Psienesis wrote:So... assuming that the entire Chapter managed to go rogue at the same time, escape with all of its battle-barges and support ships, all of its chapter serfs and support personnel, and a ready supply of Astartes-calibre bolter shells (produced by Forge Worlds, not the Astartes themselves)... yeah, they could make it.

Lacking some of these components, however, basically starts the countdown to their destruction, either from starvation, battle losses or simply being unable to field a fighting force as they have no bullets for their bang-bangs.

Space Marine chapters have their own manufactories, and Techmarines are pretty equivalent in skill to higher ranked Mechanicus enginseers. That's what whole reason they go and get trained by the Mechanicus.

Psienesis wrote:They could, of course, raid other Chapters and Imperial worlds for needed supplies... but now you have a full-blown Renegade Chapter, and that definitely puts them in the crosshairs.

You don't need to raid Imperial held worlds for resources. The Imperium is an empire of a million worlds, in a galaxy with untold billions. Even the Orks wouldn't occupy the majority of that. There's countless little empires of aliens and even other humans that are just too insignificant to mention. There's plenty of room to raid populated worlds without pissing off the Imperium.

I consider it quite likely that they could even find a non imperial human world to recruit from, With regards to manufacture of weapons and equipment i believe most chapters have the abillity to manufacture most of what they need in their fortress monastery with the exception of a few rare or complicated items.

I would say plasma and melta tech would probably be largely unavailable as would new suits of terminator armour, some chapters such as the space wolves even manufacture their own armour according to some fluff. I reckon the humble rhino wouldnt be beyond their capabillities either I reckon Land raiders, land speeders and thunderhawks would however be in very short supply with them maintaining whatever they had before going rogue.

There are many, considering the imperium is widely regarded as inflexible and almost evil it is no surprise really. The Relictors are the ones i think of straight away, they use the weapons of daemons against them, for example they would ally with one greater daemon to extermnate another or bargain with daemonic entities. The fluff never expressly states that they have been corrupted by chaos, just that such acts are forbidden by the Imperium.