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As discussed on their own forums Privateer Press about to unveil a set of rules to play large scale Warmachine battles.

From PPS_jason Soles:

UNBOUND is a system for large-scale WARMACHINE and HORDES battles in which players each field 150+ point armies with three or more warcasters/warlocks. It is more of a new way to play WARMACHINE and HORDES than it is a truly new system. It uses the same models and mostly all the same rules. Rather than just an escalation in scope, UNBOUND is a retooling of the WARMACHINE and HORDES systems that provides a truly unique play experience.

Throughout UNBOUND games, you and your opponent take turns activating portions of your armies, rather than the entire army each turn, giving you the chance to react to their opponent’s moves and keeping you both engrossed and focused on the game with little downtime. We wanted to bring massive battles to the tabletop without the massive waiting between turns.

The complete rules for Unbound will be in No Quarter 36 along with a short appendix of model by model changes that streamline the interaction of some special rules with the modified turn activation system. No Quarter 37 will feature UNBOUND scenarios and future issues of No Quarter will continue to offer new UNBOUND content.

We have been having a blast playing and designing (and playing) UNBOUND for the past few months and it is really great to finally be getting this stuff out to you. This one was really a labor of love and I think it genuinely kicks some serious ***.

I KNEW IT I KNEW IT I KNEW IT!!! It was inevitable that they would come out with a way to play bigger battles, for the same reason GW did, to sell more of the toys. Now the release of the Battle Engines makes perfect sense. In a bigger game, they will have less of an impact, and so they will have to eventually come out with even bigger, more powerful stuff until eventually we have Warmahordpocalypse.

It was definitely inevitable...I remember even making this prediction on the D6 generation podcast when 40k 5th edition was released (was that 2008?).

Some people see it as a negative...that the company is trying to get more money from gamers (as is frequently said with Apocalypse), but the truth is, gamers WANT to play bigger games once they get a big enough collection of miniatures.

The desire for army scale and even bigger (Apocalypse) is there FROM THE GAMERS. Do the companies also need to have these rules available to help sell more models to existing gamers who already own all the models they need? Of course, but that doesn't change the fact that the gamers out there also clamor for it as well.

The big litmus test, IMHO is whether after 5-10 years whether PP is still supporting the skirmish WM/Hordes game as the 'core' or whether the 'core' focus gets moved up to the army scale 'unbound'.

As long as both play styles are roughly equally supported by the company, then gamers really have nothing to complain about (not that that ever stops them!).

yakface wrote:
It was definitely inevitable...I remember even making this prediction on the D6 generation podcast when 40k 5th edition was released (was that 2008?).

Some people see it as a negative...that the company is trying to get more money from gamers (as is frequently said with Apocalypse), but the truth is, gamers WANT to play bigger games once they get a big enough collection of miniatures.

The desire for army scale and even bigger (Apocalypse) is there FROM THE GAMERS. Do the companies also need to have these rules available to help sell more models to existing gamers who already own all the models they need? Of course, but that doesn't change the fact that the gamers out there also clamor for it as well.

The big litmus test, IMHO is whether after 5-10 years whether PP is still supporting the skirmish WM/Hordes game as the 'core' or whether the 'core' focus gets moved up to the army scale 'unbound'.

As long as both play styles are roughly equally supported by the company, then gamers really have nothing to complain about (not that that ever stops them!).

I hope they stick to the small skirmish scale game. I am just starting WM but I really like the fact that you can just have a small game, meaning: few miniatures, or this super massive game requiring lots of minis.

I think it would be a silly idea to drop the small scale game style. It gets people hooked...it got me hooked...and when they see all the other stuff and the massively huge models for each of the factions, it is hard to stop buying more. So having the Unbound rules is fine and I wouldn't mind seeing them support both styles of gaming in WM/H.

I also am not too familiar with the reputation of PP, though, so I don't know if this is something could possibly do, based on past actions. But from what I have seen PP doesn't act anything like GW and so far that has made me a fan of PP.

It makes sense to have come out with. I hope it really speeds along the larger games, I've played a few 100 point games recently and its friggin exhausting.

Moving the game to army level combat would be a pretty naked grab, but hey its a business not a charity.

Activating certain units sounds pretty interesting. It usually results in very quick and intense fighting

it's a NQ release, not a $50 expansion like Apoc. so I think it's very much apples and oranges.

Besides, GW is a public company and no longer seems to have the customer in mind when they do most things, wheras PP is just presenting another way you can play if you are a metal addicted WarmaHordes nut.

kenshin620 wrote:Activating certain units sounds pretty interesting. It usually results in very quick and intense fighting

Interested in seeing how this is written out in Unbound's rules...

ProtoClone wrote:
I hope they stick to the small skirmish scale game. I am just starting WM but I really like the fact that you can just have a small game, meaning: few miniatures, or this super massive game requiring lots of minis.

I think it would be a silly idea to drop the small scale game style. It gets people hooked...it got me hooked...and when they see all the other stuff and the massively huge models for each of the factions, it is hard to stop buying more. So having the Unbound rules is fine and I wouldn't mind seeing them support both styles of gaming in WM/H.

I also am not too familiar with the reputation of PP, though, so I don't know if this is something could possibly do, based on past actions. But from what I have seen PP doesn't act anything like GW and so far that has made me a fan of PP.

I don't think you need to worry too much. PP so far has made a big point of being compassionate to their customer's needs so It seems highly unlikely that they would ever completely drop their original skirmish format. However, when it comes to the 'focus' of a game company, I could easily see the skirmish version eventually being perceived as 2nd fiddle to an army scale game much like War of the Rings has done IMHO to the Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle game.

But honestly, if this kind of thing does happen we'd be talking many, many, many years down the road.

Loki_TBC wrote:it's a NQ release, not a $50 expansion like Apoc. so I think it's very much apples and oranges.

Besides, GW is a public company and no longer seems to have the customer in mind when they do most things, wheras PP is just presenting another way you can play if you are a metal addicted WarmaHordes nut.

Agreed, but I'm confident that unbound will eventually be released as a separate supplement book at some point in the future.

And again, I totally agree on the difference between GW and PP. I think most of the negative aspects of GW's business policy stem from the fact that they're a publicly traded company.

With that said, I still say that several things GW does that get a bad rep for are more caused by the unique situation their line of games exists in. PP still hasn't capped out their WM/Hordes miniature line to the point where any new releases require the removal of existing models from the line to fit them in. When they do get to that point, I am still very interested to see how they tackle some of the negative choices that have to be made that GW gets routinely criticized for, because PP certainly seems to have tried to learn and improve from GW's shortcomings, but there are some hard choices coming at some point in the future that seem unavoidable to me.

yakface wrote:


I don't think you need to worry too much. PP so far has made a big point of being compassionate to their customer's needs so It seems highly unlikely that they would ever completely drop their original skirmish format. However, when it comes to the 'focus' of a game company, I could easily see the skirmish version eventually being perceived as 2nd fiddle to an army scale game much like War of the Rings has done IMHO to the Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle game.

But honestly, if this kind of thing does happen we'd be talking many, many, many years down the road.

From what I've seen, people still seem drawn to the Strategy Battle
Game instead of War of the Ring, but that's only anecdotal evidence.
Also, I'd be curious to hear whether or not the ADepticon games
were Strategy Battle Games or War of the Rings scale games.

yakface wrote:

The big litmus test, IMHO is whether after 5-10 years whether PP is still supporting the skirmish WM/Hordes game as the 'core' or whether the 'core' focus gets moved up to the army scale 'unbound'.

As long as both play styles are roughly equally supported by the company, then gamers really have nothing to complain about (not that that ever stops them!).

I really hope they support both pretty well. As much as large battles are cool, I have a special place in my heart for skirmish type play... it was the first type of gameplay that I experienced when getting into wargames (RIP Star Wars Miniatures).


Yay! I have a reason to stockpile my Khador! Those bombards are bound to hit something now.

I thought people were discussing this expansion for months, since the first preview of the big Khador Warmachine.

That would be Wrath. Battle Engines have nothing to do with Unbound.

Well, I am not playing Warmachine, but I always thought the big models don't fit game balance and point restrictions in small skirmish games. That's why the Khador Warmachine was shown in a larger army.

They cost an average of nine points. They fit rather nicely in the standard 35-50 point level. Not quite sure where you get the idea they were shown off in a larger army, as the batrep they were shown off in was a 50 point game...

They will almost certainly have to change from one model at a time to whole unit attack resolution, as that is the main thing that will make the larger games take too long. I'm interested in how they do it.

the funny things about the "omg moneygrab! PP will do this to sell more models!!!" doomsayings

1. Thats kind of the point with these companies. Sell figs.

2. Most core warmachine/hordes players already have 150+ worth of models excluding warcasters/warlocks so far.

If theres a way to play all your models or multicaster games without turning it into an exercise in tedium is just a win for the greater part of the fanbase

the only real sting this will have is if you decide to play just because of this expansion...and frankly thats your choice

what does it mean for me personally?

The pressgangers will probably go crazy and have events for that here where I am (win!)

Ill probably end up buying my first NQ (win for me and PP)

Now I'll get to use my units! (win!)

Will I have to buy new stuff? Unless theyre selling something special here...not at the moment. Maybe just fill out my wolves of orboros

This isnt really revolutionary. Guys at he local club were playing 40k'ish game sizes up to 2 years ago...

With the Warmachine system, it just leads to confusion and loooong games.

Downside was the tables were not available to others wishing to play WM/Hordes all afternoon

There are lots of people that love the WM/Hordes setting but dont like Skirmish games and therefore dont play the games too. This will give them a chance to have some fun as well.

Yeah, I know a lot of guys that were already playing 200 point games under the current system, which is rediculous to me but they seem to enjoy it . Most of the players I know have well over 100 points for their army just to change out armylists during leagues and tournaments. I myself have over 150 points and I don't like games over 35 points. Then again, I like smaller 40k games too, using the models you have maters more in the snaller games than the bigger slugfests.

What I'm most interested in is the alternating activation, as I LOVE games that do this, absolutely love them. Might be worth playing smaller gamews with these rules

I can't imagine playing 150 points of warmachine unless there are some slick unit/battlegroup activation rules. Even then, it sounds hella tedious. I would think that 3v3 with 50 points each (making for 150 points) would be much more manageable, but even still, each individual model in WM has so much more choice/freedom in activation that would seem to really bog a large game down, where as 40k doesn't have that problem as much at the larger scale.

(Although Strength D is ridiculous, as are strategems.)

Will be interesting to see how they work this out. I'm glad I picked up that NQ subscription!

malfred wrote:
From what I've seen, people still seem drawn to the Strategy Battle
Game instead of War of the Ring, but that's only anecdotal evidence.
Also, I'd be curious to hear whether or not the ADepticon games
were Strategy Battle Games or War of the Rings scale games.

All of the Lord of the Rings events at Adepticon were played using the Strategy Battle Game. None of the guys who run LotR at Adepticon will have anything to do with War of the Rings. And there were no signs of volunteer interest in War of the Rings from anyone else.

Skirmish scale gaming was very popular this year at Adepticon. Malifaux had a huge turn out, staying up all night with the Warmachine players. High Seas, Old West and Infinity all had modest support. While I can understand the attraction of the big game, small scale gaming is also growing.

I can't wait to see how this turns out! I have a very large Protectorate army and my Legion army is getting up there now too. Playing large games of WM/H was always a pain, so hopefully they streamlined it well. The four caster battle a buddy and me had in Mark I days still makes me shudder!

I don't see why people could think this is a bad thing.. PP sells more, and if they make money it means the game will stick around. Besides, if you've been playing any mini game and spending the time and money to collect a lot of your favorite army, you probably already have a big enough force...

I think it's that people don't want to HAVE to buy more in order to play the game. If Unbound is the precursor to what WM is going to be than it would no longer be the case that 35-50 point armies (which aren't that hard to collect), would be the standard. I don't think Unbound is the prototype for a definitively larger scale MK3. WM seems to have been designed to be what 40k is explicitly not and it's working out really well for them. No need to start changing that now.

Necronomitron wrote:I think it's that people don't want to HAVE to buy more in order to play the game. If Unbound is the precursor to what WM is going to be than it would no longer be the case that 35-50 point armies (which aren't that hard to collect), would be the standard. I don't think Unbound is the prototype for a definitively larger scale MK3. WM seems to have been designed to be what 40k is explicitly not and it's working out really well for them. No need to start changing that now.

If PP can get a solid foothold on skirmish and army style games without neglecting its core fanbase, isnt that a good thing?

Heck right now im thinking I DONT have to buy more. I finally can use all the stuff I've been thinking about getting rid of!

Best case scenario here is that PP offers robust support for both modes of play. Models will be designed for both modes of play. Existing models that you wouldnt normally field suddenly have use beyond casual games (I know folks who have 4 mortars/artillery)

Right now, no models are marked "Unbound - only" and if PP keeps its wits about them, they wont make any.

PP will finally appeal to those people who want sweeping epic battles and still not neglect their core fanbase. You only have a 35 point army list but want to get in the fun? No problem! Just get 2-3 other guys on your side.

Got an odd number of players? Multiplayer games will finally be a lot less tedious.

While comparing PP and GW is an apples and oranges debate, GW does provide an excellent roadmap on what NOT to do.

I LOVE this.

The 'thing' about WM/H is that you have to decide not only what kind of pie you want, but also what part of the pie you feel like eating for that individual battle; do I want my Whipped Topping caster, my Crust caster, or my Gooey Filling caster?

WM/H is supposedly playable at higher (100+) point levels, but it's just an ordeal to get in a truly large game.

The thing is, though, that the framework is there for larger games--some warcasters have special synergies, some faction 'alliances' are supposed to be quite common. There's just no really good way to make those games work well, even though I would like to play in them.

I think it'll take a lot of re-tooling to the system resulting in a markedly different play experience and game balance, which to my mind suggests 'same models, brand new game' and not the 40k push of 'same game, brand new models'.

Ultimately, I trust PP to make a well balanced game set that is fun to play. I don't think that the Unbound format will be a substitution for the skirmish format.

Im already thinking of a Baldur/Cassius list

Rasheth/Barnabbas (Blindwater Gators)/eMakeda has potential for some truly epic combos.

Rasheth/Barnabbas/eMorghoul could also be brutal.

I know nothing about how this will look from a rules standpoint, of course, but I like how warcasters with tiny control areas could be compensated for by other casters with larger, making them more viable overall.