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I dont play the Ogres (I play empire), but a guy at my hobby store does, lets say he sucks, he has the games concept, but he dosent play smart. He is constantly getting destroyed by a WoC player (he isnt the problem, he is actually a nice guy who plays by the rules and the 'I use what I have' philosophy), and he is getting really angry. So before he snaps, I thought I would throw him some Imperial experiance. Empire players, in my opinion, have the most apreciation of magic items. Our heroes rely on them to win combats. Now in game terms and real lfe, the Ogre players LLord choice, a Tyrant, has a grudge against the WoC lord. They have fought 2 times, and the Tyrant has lost both of the combats. So I have come up with a lord choice and some general tips on how to fight chaos.
Tyrant is equipped with the Deathcheater Big Name, the Tenderiser (Great Weapon, deals D3 wounds instead of 1) and the spangleshard. He has no prtection because it would just be a waste of points against WoC, so this outfit is made for challenges. The WoC player hits first, however he has to reroll to wound, and the succsesful wounds are discounted on a roll higher to the to wound roll (WoC player has 5 attacks, 3 get through and he is wounding on 3+, 2 wounds are succsesful, but with reroll only 1 wounds. The Ogre player then rolls a D6 for each wound he has taken, in this case if he rolls 4 or higher the wound is removed, he then uses the tenderiser to beat the snot out of his enemy).
He also dosent use his magic correctly, I am going to suggest that his armies formation should be Leadbelchers in the center, to shoot at the enemy, then his melee troops hit the remnants hard. If he uses his butchers in a supporting role rather than offensive (buffing the melee troops Strength and Toughness) his odds will be much higher. Any other things I should add?

Scraplaunchers are a junk model but one of the best war machines in the game.

Mix stuff from the main BRB. Cathay Longsword is really good for 10 points. If you get Deatcheater big name. Armou of silvered steel, Dawstone. He'd be +1 Init, +1WS, armor piercing, with 2+ armor save and he can reroll armor saves and any attempts to wound him Really hard to kill if a butcher is there to heal also.

Sanctus-Malas wrote:The Ogre player then rolls a D6 for each wound he has taken, in this case if he rolls 4 or higher the wound is removed, he then uses the tenderiser to beat the snot out of his enemy).

This is incorrect. The Ogre player has to roll higher than what his opponent actually rolled to wound, not higher than what he needs to roll to wound.

So if your opponent needs 2s to wound, but rolls a 6,2,5,6 to wound, then you can't stop the 6s, you need a 6 to stop the 5, and you can stop the 2 on a +3. The Spangleshard sucks.

I'd run my Tyrant with Mawseeker, Trickster's Helm, Wyrdstone Necklace, Other Trickster's Shard, Heavy Armor, Great Weapon, and a Luck Gnoblar. That makes him really hard to kill and makes your opponent re-roll wards after getting whopped by his S7 attacks.

Thanks for the input. The general idea I am working towards is making the Tyrant as hard to kill as possible while giving him huge offensive capabilities. How does the stratergy work out though, I play an army thats good at ranged combat, so will the shoot and charge with buffs tactic work for Ogres (worls for my guns and cavalry mix)

-I have great luck with ogre hordes. Not sure what point level these guys are playing at, but 18 naked bulls with a butcher is a force to be reckoned with.

-Personally, I like leadbelchers. The general consensus, however, is that they are not reliable. If you could convince him to drop them and grab some bulls instead, the army's overall performance may improve.

-Don't discount the survival build on the tyrant. His statline ensures that he will kick some butt. Survivability on the other hand...A 4+ ward, good armor with re-rolls, and/or re-rolls to wound could really improve his chances.


Jim

Tyrants have a lot of builds that work; here's one I tried.
Tyrant Chumba Wumba "I get back up..."
Long Sword, brace of handguns, wyrdstone necklace, heavy armor, GutMaw, potion of healing, luck gnoblar, Maw Seeker.
4+ armor, 5+ ward, re-roll 1 armor/ward save, heals D6 wounds, T6, with either WS7 A5 or WS6 A6. Recovers would for kills in challenges.

-Matt

I know that armour is a pretty essential thing, but what this guy is fighting is a Chaos Lord on a Juggernaut with 7 Str 6-7 attacks at ws 8 that has a helm of discord, a Chaos Blade (It 5him boosts all round) with 1+ Armour save, and a 5+ ward save that lets him pass any characteristic tests. This guy litterally wreks any armour before hacking the Tyrant to death (I think the sword also has armour piercing T.T), it dosent happen in one turn, but it happens with the Tyrant getting in a few wounds. Instead of the Spangleshard, higher toughness or a ward save would be good, maybe swap out the tenderiser and replace it with a cathayan longsword with a magic weapon that boosts str or attacks.
I also have to say that this player dosent have the resources to field 18 bulls, he normally fields 8 bulls, 2 units of 4 leadbelchers, 2 slave giants and the odd hero here and there (and I think 4 Iron guts...). He last fought against 5 mounted maurauders, 15 Warriors with a Khorne hero and another squad of 10, 5 Knights, 5 hounds, a wizard and the lord. I think he has a sccraplauncher now, I will tell him to field it.

I like Brahmir's (spelling?) Statue on a butcher or SM in the main horde group. -3 leadership for Chaos for things like Briangobbler and fear tests is awesome against Chaos. I would also dump the lead belchers and possibly the slave giants, though if you do take slave giants 2 are nice. Scraplauncher is great, also don't overlook gnoblars they are great for tar pits.

If he's going to challenge only, I don't think armor is that great. Not base armor. Because just about anything you challenge is going to negate it with their STR. That's why I pointed out the 2+ armor above, which is like 45 pts.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:I'd run my Tyrant with Mawseeker, Trickster's Helm, Wyrdstone Necklace, Other Trickster's Shard, Heavy Armor, Great Weapon, and a Luck Gnoblar. That makes him really hard to kill and makes your opponent re-roll wards after getting whopped by his S7 attacks.

This. I"ve run similar builds and absolutely owned any character or even most units my Tyrant ran up against.

Your friend needs to learn how to maximize his gut magic, if he's going into a challenge unbuffed, he's gonna get hurt. The FAQ helped gut magic out a great deal now that spells stack making; since GM is so easy to cast (especially if you use gruts sickle to counter the increased cost of similar spells) you often present your opponent with the choice of dispelling your spells or casting his own. So why not have a T7 regenerating Tyrant? Run a slaughtermaster and a butcher both if you've got the points.

I dont have my book in front of me, but isnt there a 50 point weapon that ignores armor? I might be thinking of a gift out of the daemon book though. I dont remember off hand...

anyway, if it exists, that would be the obvious choice against the chaos lord.

Or maybe... The ogre book has a magic weapon that gives killing blow. Normally i would not say that kb is worth it, but in this specific situation what the heck. Give it a try.

-Jim

the Skullplucker is lame.

the only Magic ogre weapons that are worth it are the Tenderizer(Great weapon, causes D3 wounds) or the Thundermace(either a Greatweapon OR you roll one attack. if it hits place the small template touching the Tyrants base. its exactly like a Str4(8) stone thrower. in a challange its Str8, D6 wounds, no armor saves)


Ogres really don't need magic weapons as their stats are more then enough to deal with anything. points are best spent defensivly.


my Defensive Tyrant build is,

Cathayen Long Sword, HA, Tricksters Helm, Healing Potion, and Mawseeker. 4+ armor save isn't much, but that isnt the point. He's T6 and you must reroll to wound him. hes practically immune to Str3 or 4 attacks(and is getting his save to boot) and against Str5 and 6 he's just not fair to. 5s or 6s to wound, needing a reroll. you need 3 initial wounds to cause 1 wound with Str 5. 2 with Str6.

attacks of that Str don't come in large quantities and the Tyrant has 5 wounds total, and the Healing potion to make you cry even more.

my Tyrant can still face down a tooled out lord from any other book and stand a very good chance of winning.


the Armor of Destiny is a nice item too.

That's a pretty nice build; through I like the great weapon more (deals with opponents with the trickster helm) and brace of handguns.
That lets you choose between 6 S5, or 5 S7 attacks.

-Matt

Do Glittering Scales and the Greyback Pelt stack their -1 to hit?

Yes.

I tend to run my Tyrant with tenderiser, heavy armor, +4 ward. The problem the ogre player has is expecting to win a challenge against a chaos lord. Tie up the lord as long as possible and let a horde of bulls beat chaos warriors into the dust is a much better strategem.

@Amaya: yes, they indeed do stack combine with a CLS for most enemies hitting on 6s(chaos lords on 5s)


I reccomend having a ward save OR being T6 and rerolling to wound because with the above build you have little defense if you do get hit. poison is a weakness of that build.