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I'm looking for a good loadout for my CCS, I want to keep them cheap to cram more tanks in there.

What's a good load out for them? I value the 2 orders but that BS4 isn't bad.

I typically like Plasma but it's really expensive and I'm too worried about Gets Hot. Melta is nice, but if I let armor get that close have I screwed the pootch?

Ideally they'll just be sitting back, possibly in a chimera issuing orders to the blobs and HWSs.

Would Chimera, Auto-cannon, Vox be a waste?

Also is it worth giving any equipment to the commander himself or is he just too squishy?

Generally people either run one of these two in a mechanized army:

4x Melta, Chimera : Use this to neutralize any big threat - 4 BS4 Meltas, combined with the order of your choice gives you a 20" 2D6 Melta range. Since it isn't scoring, you needn't worry about suiciding it - the total cost of the unit is 145 points.

Plasma Pistol*, 4x Plasma, Chimera: Use this to hunt Deathstars and MC's - lay the smackdown on heavy infantry, MC's, and light vehicles. Gets Hot! is a bit of a worry, but generally you'll have mauled a unit by then. I personally run this configuration. Some others drop a Plasma Gun run a Medic for the FNP, but I feel the 15 points extra spent on that change could be better used elsewhere.

*Some people, like myself, find it useful to purchase a Plasma Pistol on the Commander, he has 3 wounds, negating Gets Hot! somewhat.

Now that I actually read your post, it seems like you're running an infantry-based army? In that case, a mounted CCS might be a bad idea - a single Chimera will get blasted off the board pretty quickly.

A Lascannon team, coupled with Bring It Down! can be surprisingly effective AT, especially when paired with a Master of Ordnance.

Personally, though, I run 1 CCS 4x Plas and the other 4x Melta, both in ML/HF Chimmys. No upgrades for the commander, he's fine as-is.

As for where they should be? I usually have both twards the middle of the board as distractions for my opponent and for the orders. But thats entirely your call.

Edit: I wonder how many people swear by 4x Plas + PP? I used to run it, but it 1 more shot never seemed to make much difference. Truthfully, I usually forget I bought them in the first place... oh proxying, how I love thee...

If I were you, I wouldn't worry about suiciding my CCS. It's your scoring Troops choices that you really have to protect. You don't get any points for them surviving the game.

I feel like you're safer off with the 4x Meltaguns. Saves you 20 points over Plasma and the S8 can help you insta-kill those nasty squads like Paladins or Nobz.

What would you guys say about the load-out of CCS's that aren't in a Chimera?

BoyMac wrote:What would you guys say about the load-out of CCS's that aren't in a Chimera?

5 bodybags.

Joking aside, you could take one with a lascannon and Master of Ordnance. I've done that to decent effect.

Brother SRM wrote:

BoyMac wrote:What would you guys say about the load-out of CCS's that aren't in a Chimera?

5 bodybags.
Joking aside, you could take one with a lascannon and Master of Ordnance. I've done that to decent effect.

Anyway, yeah, that advice is sound. Stick it near the HWT's if you go that route. If you're running an extremely foot-based army, you might even want to consider a Regimental Standard. I haven't tried them, but they seem nice if you're in the thick of it.

@OP: It really matters on your list, though. What's your list like?

More Dakka wrote:I'm looking for a good loadout for my CCS, I want to keep them cheap to cram more tanks in there. I value the 2 orders but that BS4 isn't bad. Ideally they'll just be sitting back, possibly in a chimera issuing orders to the blobs and HWSs. Would Chimera, Auto-cannon, Vox be a waste?

If you want to keep it cheap then I think you're on the right path here. I'm not too big on the vox network tho, orders aren't critical, and more points for tanks right? I'd say a 2xGL/AC loadout keeps it cheap while putting out 4 midstrength shots - 7 if you include the chimera's multilaser (and that's 5 mobile S6 shots, at min 24" range), plus possibly hull HB / pintle HS for More Dakka. Of course you can go cheaper - start dropping specials or downgrade to mortar or HB. But that's starting to really waste the BS4.

More Dakka wrote:I typically like Plasma but it's really expensive and I'm too worried about Gets Hot. Melta is nice, but if I let armor get that close have I screwed the pootch?

Both of these are good options, but not really 'cheap'. If you give melta to the CCS you'll likely need to actively hunt armour, it probably won't often willingly enter the threat zone. Not the best for sitting back imo, plasma would be better.

That's the problem - to get the most out of them you have to spend some points. The lascannon, for instance, is as much as the GLAC loadout in total. The LC/MoO combo is recommended above, and does its job, but that doubles the cost of the squad. Face it, you're going to spend some points, so decide on a role and do it right.

More Dakka wrote:Also is it worth giving any equipment to the commander himself or is he just too squishy?

Depends on the squad loadout, but if you're goin plasma or melta i'd say a plasma pistol is a solid choice. BS4 with 3 wounds, why not? A PW if you're running a rare CC setup. I've thrown meltabombs on him with the last 5 points a few times, but never used them, so....

Gavo wrote:it seems like you're running an infantry-based army? In that case, a mounted CCS might be a bad idea - a single Chimera will get blasted off the board pretty quickly.

While true, he did say he's bringing tanks, so that should be good. The chimera can give cover to a long-ranged Russ, and if you lose it, well at least the CCS has cover now! Extending the orders range is also nice...

NuggzTheNinja wrote:If I were you, I wouldn't worry about suiciding my CCS. It's your scoring Troops choices that you really have to protect. You don't get any points for them surviving the game.

I agree, but the CCS offers some ways to increase the durability of the Troops. Besides Incoming! and Move Move Move (or is it run run run?), you also have GBitF to help keep the men alive and in line. In addition you can bring the Regimental Standard, which is almost necessary (imo) with HWS. 3 models, t3, ld7, toting firepower you're counting on? Pony up for the standard. You'll often want to be using the commanders fire orders on them, they are the best candidates (unless you've got firebase blobs i guess), so there is already incentive to be in range.

minigun762 wrote:I feel like you're safer off with the 4x Meltaguns. Saves you 20 points over Plasma and the S8 can help you insta-kill those nasty squads like Paladins or Nobz.

This is also true, and I won't dispute the effectiveness of these two setups. The melta in particular is strong for the CCS because of the BiD at ld9. But you have to actively hunt with it, and the plasma, melta and/or anti-tank roles can be filled elsewhere.

BoyMac wrote:What would you guys say about the load-out of CCS's that aren't in a Chimera?

Imo the only option not on the table would be melta, though plasma should probably get a chimera as well, to protect the investment.

Gavo wrote:

Brother SRM wrote: you could take one with a lascannon and Master of Ordnance. I've done that to decent effect.

that advice is sound. Stick it near the HWT's if you go that route. If you're running an extremely foot-based army, you might even want to consider a Regimental Standard. I haven't tried them, but they seem nice if you're in the thick of it.

I run HWS alot and almost always bring a RS to support such a fragile, potent squad. In fact I build my CCS with supporting the HWS's as their main mission. I totally agree with the lascannon for such a squad, as you'll likely be at range, and have BiD and BS4. I'd only bring the MoO above 2000 though, otherwise the enemy formations may be too small to accomodate his inaccuracy.

At higher point levels (above 1500), when I've got at least 4 HWS, I start to go a little crazy with it and you'll probably laugh but I've been liking it. I go CCS: lascannon, regimental standard, medic; and bring along a Lord Commissar with a camo cloak, who usually joins the squad (but has many, many, uses and can do different things at different stages of a battle). Now the squad has 10 wounds, with FNP and Stealth, taking ld at 10 and rerolling morale. In cover, that can be a tough squad to dig out and the only firepower you've removed is a single lascannon. In the meantime, as long as those fragile HWS's are within 6" they are rerolling morale on ld10. Basically to silence the battery you have to destroy each gun, and if they're in cover too they can be fairly resiliant. Taking orders on ld10 as well is a nice bonus, keeping the heavies at peak performance. Quit laughing, I like my 195 point lascannon ok? Seriously though, I've always liked high leadership in warhammer, and this is about as rocksolid as it gets.

But then I play a heavy weapon gunline supported by vehicles. Gavo's right: what's your list like?

odorofdeath wrote:A Lascannon team, coupled with Bring It Down! can be surprisingly effective AT, especially when paired with a Master of Ordnance.

That's not really true. Even with Bring it Down! the Master is way inaccurate.

You'd be surprised how beneficial that re-roll on the scatter die is.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Sorry for not posting my actual army list, I'm still working on it at this point.

Overall I'm putting together an armored division with foot slogging infantry to support it. I play around 1750 pts and this isn't going to be a heavily competitive list, but I'd like to actually win some games with it all the same.

The list that I'm building right now is:

CCS with loadout TBD

Infantry Platoon
PCS loadout TBD

20 man blob 2x GL 2xML
30 man blob 3x GL 3xML

2x SWS 3x flamers each (or 2x flamer 1x demo charge if I can squeeze it in)

5x HWS (got a bunch of 60mm bases and heavy weapon squad boxes, so it's up in the air at this point)

2x Melta Vet squads in Valks/Vendettas

Then up to 5 Leman Russ Battle Tanks and variants, whatever I can afford at the points limit I'm playing (I have 3 MBT kits and 2 Demolisher kits which will be magnetized)

I also have 1 chimera, but wouldn't mind getting 1 or 2 more, I'm just not into a full mech list though.

I like that Las-Cannon/MoO build so far, but strong arguments have been made for the melta and plasma loadouts... I just want to figure it out before I start modeling this squad

odorofdeath wrote:You'd be surprised how beneficial that re-roll on the scatter die is.

I've tried it, and haven't been impressed. Even if you roll a hit (1/3rd of the time), it is still scattering 2d6" and any scatter >3" will probably miss even huge targets like Monoliths and Land Raiders. With a ~5.55% chance of rolling 3 or less on 2d6, I wouldn't trust those odds even with a re-roll.

If you're going mobile, than add 4 GL into the mix. You've got either 4 S6 shots at BS 4, or 4 templates. You can and will put things down with concentrated fire.

If you're going stable, an autocannon and MoO will decimate whatever you need for 35 points.

withershadow wrote:

odorofdeath wrote:You'd be surprised how beneficial that re-roll on the scatter die is.

I've tried it, and haven't been impressed. Even if you roll a hit (1/3rd of the time), it is still scattering 2d6" and any scatter >3" will probably miss even huge targets like Monoliths and Land Raiders. With a ~5.55% chance of rolling 3 or less on 2d6, I wouldn't trust those odds even with a re-roll.

Actually, if you roll a hit it scatters 3d6.

It's about getting a low result on the 2d6, far from impossible with a re-roll.

When you factor in his bs4 (CO needs LOS for BiD anyway), you start to really see where your 30pts went.

It's surprising that no one has mentioned camo cloaks here.

If the CCS is going to be on foot, then I would deploy it so that it was right in the middle of some HWS, I'd grab an autocannon or lascannon, camo cloaks and take a regimental standard.

Since the standard bearer can't take a special weapon and since you've replaced two guardsmen with a heavy weapons team, there isn't much point in putting another special weapon on the last guy.

Camo cloaks would dissuade a shrewd opponent from taking out both your leadership re-roll, and your bring it down battery for HWS.

ARG! All of these are good points, how am I supposed to decided?!?!

You know with the prevalence of Meta these days I thought I would just get the usual "option X is the only good option, everything else is garbage", but now I'm choosing between 5 appealing loadouts:

LasCannon MoO
4x Melta Chimera
4x Plasma (plasma pistol) Chimera
4x GL Chimera
Las/Autocannon MoO and Camo

Decisions decisions...

Almarine wrote:

withershadow wrote:

odorofdeath wrote:You'd be surprised how beneficial that re-roll on the scatter die is.

I've tried it, and haven't been impressed. Even if you roll a hit (1/3rd of the time), it is still scattering 2d6" and any scatter >3" will probably miss even huge targets like Monoliths and Land Raiders. With a ~5.55% chance of rolling 3 or less on 2d6, I wouldn't trust those odds even with a re-roll.

Actually, if you roll a hit it scatters 3d6.
It's about getting a low result on the 2d6, far from impossible with a re-roll.

If you roll a hit, it scatters 2d6. If you roll an arrow, you add another d6. Most of the time you will be scattering 3d6.

When you factor in his bs4 (CO needs LOS for BiD anyway), you start to really see where your 30pts went.

And that's where this unit falls apart for me. If you can see them, they can see you, and if you're issuing orders to yourself you aren't hiding in a chimera. Are you giving them camo cloaks and going to ground every time someone shoots at you?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

More Dakka wrote:ARG! All of these are good points, how am I supposed to decided?!?!

You know with the prevalence of Meta these days I thought I would just get the usual "option X is the only good option, everything else is garbage", but now I'm choosing between 5 appealing loadouts:

LasCannon MoO
4x Melta Chimera
4x Plasma (plasma pistol) Chimera
4x GL Chimera
Las/Autocannon MoO and Camo

Decisions decisions...

I would say the 4xGL loadout "is garbage", because it wastes their BS4. If you want units like that, look to the PCS.

Usually I run a foot squad of the CCS around this:

CCS: 85
vox, melta, standard, meltabombs

Just charging forward like the rest of the company. I keep the standard for when things end up in close combat, the vox to make sure the orders get through, a meltagun for when it's necessary to kill something and the meltabombs incase a vehicle comes to close. Not the perfect loadout, but cheap.
Especially if you can get two CCS. Double the orders, double the fun!

Hmmm, OK I've priced the whole list out for 1750 and I think I'll go with 4x GL and camo just because I have a plethora of GL's right now.

With this loadout I can take the following:

CCS
4x GL
camo cloaks

PCS
4x Flamers

5x Infantry Squads (20 man blob, 30 man blob)
5x GL
5x ML
2x Commissars

2x SWS (3x Flamers on each might be able to squeeze 1x demo charge in instead)

5x HWS (1 auto cannon, 1 Las cannon 3x HB or Mortars, kinda limited by the models I have at present)

2x Melta Vet squads, just 3x meltas no other equipment

1x Valk w/ Rocket Pods
1x Vendetta

3x LRMBT w HB sponsons (might 86 the sponsons for some more infantry)

You're going to get rocked by any mech list. Take more meltas. Camo cloaks are a waste. Autocannons are better than missile launchers.

I have a related question, assuming you're running a 4x Melta/Chimera CCS, how do you best utilize it?

Hang back behind advancing armor and fry incoming tanks or play bold and rush it forward towards a target?

More Dakka wrote:

Infantry Platoon
PCS loadout TBD

20 man blob 2x GL 2xML
30 man blob 3x GL 3xML

One suggestion for these units are meatshields. I use them quite often and they work rather good.

B= Blob
C= Platoon Command with GL/Flamers
I= 10 man infantry unit

I I I I I I I I I I
B B B B C C C
B B B B B B B
B B B B B B B

Place the 2-3" from each others. I is for giving the blob/platoon command unit cover saves. If they fire on the I unit they gain very little and you loose nothing important. If they charge the I unit they will most likely break it in combat and give you another turn of fireing.
Platoon command is for giving the Blob unit, FRFSRF! or in a pinch, INCOMING! to the screening unit.
Grenadelaunchers/Flamers/lasguns are great because you loose very litte effiency when fireing through your own lines compared to say plasmaguns.

Heavy weapons are best placed in Heavyweapon Squads because you want to be moving around with this setup without loosing the heavy weapons. Static gunlines rarely works (for me atleast).

I run MoO, Autocannon, regimental standard and vox. My CC has a Plasma Pistol, and this build has yet to fail me.

this has been my load out for a while now. lascannon team and two sniper rifles with a master of ordnance thrown in. i usualy give them cammo cloaks and throw them in cover. 130 points.

the snipers complement the range of the lascannon and nothing can move then shoot, so, i keep them in ruins or something of the like.

Please, please do not waste your opportunity for a badass CCS on a 4 GL loadout. Either go LC/MoO with a Regimental Standard and stick them in cover by your HWS, or use their BS4 to good effect with meltas/plasmas. GLs are awful. The flamer is a far better anti-infantry weapon, and it's a weak tank killer. If you want actual flexibility, go with a plasmagun and deal with the point sink. It'll pay off.

Also, do not forget the possibility of 4 flamers. That can melt just about anything by the number of saves it can force.

And camo cloaks could be plenty effective with the LC/MoO loadout, I wouldn't listen to the guy who says they suck without any justification.

What's so bad about the GL? I mean S6 on a BS4 model, wouldn't a flamer be a waste of the BS4? I'm not really planning on firing frag shells with it.

My blobs are going to be full of GL's since I'm using WGF greatcoats and I bought a ton of extra special wep sprues of a guy as well (mostly flamers and GLs)

Sure it's only AP4 but throw enough S6 at MEQ and the like, they'll go down. Plus they can take out AV10-11 easily as well.

Flamers are definitely a waste of BS4, but not as bad as a GL. It's just if you do the math, it's far more effective to spend the points on melta/plasma.

Well I've got 3 Chimera's in the mail now, so I'm thinking 4x Plasma.

Would 3x Plasma and a medic be worth it, or would 4x plasma and carapace armor be better at saving me from Gets Hot?

4x plasma and a plasma pistol, and gets hot be damned. If you roll an awful amount of 1s, carapace may not be a bad investment.

A medic would be worth 30 points if it didn't force you to give up a special weapon slot. I really feel it was meant to be another advisor.