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Interesting question here.

I get my Callidus in from reserves, I inflict D6 S4 hits on the unit, then I get placed with 3" of it. What happens if I destroy the unit with my hits before I get placed?

Aramoro

RAW you cannot place it anywhere as it is no longer possible to put it within 3" of the unit so it's destroyed.

or you could just place it within 3" of where the unit was before it was destroyed.

You can't it's in the Movement phase you get it. Unless you mean it gets wiped from Coteaz's out of sequence attack but then it's there turn so Callidus wouldn't arrive.

You inflict it but nothing else can shoot at that time.

Varon, the callidus inflicts d6 s4 hits as it arrives in the movement phase, it's not shooting and can potentially wipe the unit out, it's a valid question.

I believe the rule does state that if the unit is wiped out then the assassin is placed within 3" of where the unit was.

Reguardless, doesn't it all happen at the same time? meaning the unit in question is not removed as a casualty until the end of the attck/placement.

Lucid is spot on. You should place the asassin before saves are rolled.

It happens "as it arrives", right? As Kel said, place the model in range, then roll the hits.

Mannahnin wrote:It happens "as it arrives", right? As Kel said, place the model in range, then roll the hits.

Not quite

When the Callidus Assassin arrives from reserve, choose an enemy unit. The chosen unit immediately takes D6 S4 AP2 hits. The Callidus Assassin is then placed anywhere within 3" of that unit using the Deep Strike rules, but does not scatter.

So

1) Make your reserve roll
2) Choose a unit and inflict the hits
3) Then place the assassin.

The place the Assassin explicitly happens after inflicting the hits so the unit might be destroyed or fled off the table by the time you come to place the model.

You would have to place the Assassin before you take saves, as you'd have to figure out whether you get cover from the hits. Not likely, but possible.

Jidmah wrote:You would have to place the Assassin before you take saves, as you'd have to figure out whether you get cover from the hits. Not likely, but possible.

It's not a shooting attack so you wouldn't get any cover save.

Jidmah wrote:You would have to place the Assassin before you take saves, as you'd have to figure out whether you get cover from the hits. Not likely, but possible.

The rule explicitly says you place the Assassin after you inflict the hits. I don't believe you get to delay resolving those hits until you feel like it later on. You immediatly inflict the hits, then place the assassin.

spongemonkee wrote:

Jidmah wrote:You would have to place the Assassin before you take saves, as you'd have to figure out whether you get cover from the hits. Not likely, but possible.

It's not a shooting attack so you wouldn't get any cover save.

You always get to take cover saves unless stated otherwise.

Jidmah wrote:

spongemonkee wrote:

Jidmah wrote:You would have to place the Assassin before you take saves, as you'd have to figure out whether you get cover from the hits. Not likely, but possible.

It's not a shooting attack so you wouldn't get any cover save.

You always get to take cover saves unless stated otherwise.

Model isn't on the table when the hits are inflicted so the only cover saves you'll get are from Area Terrain.

It tells you to inflict the hits. It does not tell you to fully resolve the hits and THEN place the assasin

So you inflict hits, place assasin, roll to wound / take saves, etc.

So you can choose to resolves the hits whenever you like then?

In reality it never tells you to resolve the hits so you don't by your logic. The rule just says the unit immediately take some hits, nothing about resolving them.

In the assassin-special on "What's new today" GW wrote:

"When this cloak of deception is thrown off, the Callidus hits her adopted squad hard (D6 Strength 4 AP 2 hits) and enters play within 3" of that unit (or its position, if her initial attack has levelled it)."

EDIT: Here's the link: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=16200028a

YOu would have to resolve them that phase. Nothing forces you to immediately resolve them.

the logic is more sound than your position, which is entirely unsupported by the wording of the rule.

nosferatu1001 wrote:YOu would have to resolve them that phase. Nothing forces you to immediately resolve them.

the logic is more sound than your position, which is entirely unsupported by the wording of the rule.

So hits inflicted immediately get resolved whenever you like in the movement phase then? That makes no sense, do you have any backing to say a unit suffering hits does not immediately resolve those hits? Your logic seems to extend to nothing forces you to resolve at all in that game then.

Huh? Given i never said that, theres no suprise that it doesnt make sense. Trying reading it again, potentially a little slower, noting the full stop beween "phase" and "nothing". The capitalisation is a hint as well.

You are NOT required to immediately resolve them, your rules assertion that you do has no merit. You are told the unit takes hits, then you place the model

You are not told:

the unti takes hits -> roll to wound -> roll saves -> remove casualtives -> place model

Which is what you are claiming.

Huh? Given i never said that, theres no suprise that it doesnt make sense. Trying reading it again, potentially a little slower, noting the full stop beween "phase" and "nothing". The capitalisation is a hint as well.

I appreciate your sarcasm and you subtle implication I might be pants on head slowed, but stick to the rules and keep the snide remarks to yourself.


You said anytime that Phase, so the whole movement phase I take it, can you back that up at all?

Why do I have to resolve them by the end of the phase at all?

Can you show me anywhere in the rules hits are inflicted, something else unrelated happens, hits are resolved?

If you can answer those then you might have a point.

Can you back up your point at all?

Yours is the extraordinary claim, after all.

The unit suffers hits and those are resolved before you resolves a completely different part of the rule, that doesn't seem too radical.

I'm most curious about this, resolve any time you feel like in the movement phase bit you claimed. If you are correct you'll have no problem pointing out some examples.

The rule says Do A THEN B, not do A then B, then the rest of A you didn't bother resolving before.

By allocating D6 hits to the unit you have "done" A. As I have tried to do - tell me where it says *resolve* the hits THEN do B.

Oh wait, it doesnt. Therefore you are free to do as you see fit - and, given your case (not supported by the urles, just your assertion) could result ina game break, guess which one is more suported.

nosferatu1001 wrote:By allocating D6 hits to the unit you have "done" A. As I have tried to do - tell me where it says *resolve* the hits THEN do B.

Oh wait, it doesnt. Therefore you are free to do as you see fit - and, given your case (not supported by the urles, just your assertion) could result ina game break, guess which one is more suported.

Tell me where it says you DO resolve the hits then.

I guess by your reasoning, that resolving hits is not part of suffering hits, then as it doesn't tell you to do it then you simply never resolve them. Still curious to see why you think you can resolve them at any point of the Movement Phase.

All I need is one example where something suffers some hits, you do something unrelated, and then resolve to hits later.

The rule doesn't say you allocate D6 hits, the unit takes D6 Hits, part of taking a it is resolving it's effects would you not say?

So let's say that you made your Reserves roll and then nominated a target unit. The next step is to determine the number of hits. For sake of argument we'll put it at 4. You've now determined how many hits the unit takes. Next step, place the Assassin. Final step roll to wound, allocate wounds, make saves (if possible).

The key here is not immediately resolving those hits, it's determining how many are taken.

-Yad

By this logic, if the rule stated that the unit suffers D6 wounds that allow no saves then you still wouldn't remove the models as a result of those wounds until after the Assassin is placed.

It's still the most logical and sensible way to play it - I don't see any sense in taking the game-breaking route when it isn't clear either way.

Yad wrote:So let's say that you made your Reserves roll and then nominated a target unit. The next step is to determine the number of hits. For sake of argument we'll put it at 4. You've now determined how many hits the unit takes. Next step, place the Assassin. Final step roll to wound, allocate wounds, make saves (if possible).

The key here is not immediately resolving those hits, it's determining how many are taken.

-Yad

But why would you NOT resolve the hits as soon as you suffer them? I haven't seen anything to support that you interrupt resolving the hits to do something else.

It matters in the more general case of are the casualties removed before the Assassin is placed as that effects where the Assassin can be placed. Given the rules I cannot see how you could not resolved the hits first THEN place the assassin.

If the unit is wiped out, you may no longer place the assassin, as there is no longer a place 3" within the unit on the board.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:By this logic, if the rule stated that the unit suffers D6 wounds that allow no saves then you still wouldn't remove the models as a result of those wounds until after the Assassin is placed.

Not sure I agree with that. In my mind (and in the context of the this assassin's special rule) there's quite a difference between determining the number of hits a unit takes versus suffering wounds. I'll need to re-read the wounds section, but I thought that if a model suffers a wound it must immediately make a save.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:It's still the most logical and sensible way to play it - I don't see any sense in taking the game-breaking route when it isn't clear either way.

-Yad