Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Kind of new to Warmachine, have been playing a few games over the past few weeks against a cygnar opponent, who keeps beating me. I'm using cryx, mostly Deathjack and Prime Goreshade, but I can't get close enough to the cygnar lines without getting shot to pieces. Most of his models ignore my stealth with true sight (I think) which leaves me running across the board as fast as possible to get close to him, which is never fast enough

Is there anyway i can make my already fast cryx even faster with a tiered list or spells or combinations like Tartarus' Curse for bane units? Any kind of start the game further forward would massively help!

Play SCENARIOS, not plain "casterkill" games for God's sake! And if you use pGoreshade then just camp focus, move him forward as much as necessary (2 rounds should be enough) and use feat. A unit of charging Bane Thralls kills the gunline easily.

I've tried that once before, but his guys have DEF 15!!! I'm tempted to switch to Deneghra (either one) and do some serious debuffing, but the free Bane Thralls are so nice, even if I'm not using them right.

Quick pointers, protect tartarus as is curse gives the banes extra range and +2 to hit and thus hitting those gun mages on 7's. I don't know how many models you have but mechanithralls and brute thralls to block LOS to the better stuff behind might be an idea (nercosurgeon to recycle isn't a bad idea either). Plus the deathjack is a load of points in one model that you can't protect from shooting as you've found out. You might want to try goreshade without him.

What cygnar caster does he have? If it's not siege or kraye, then casting shadowmancer every turn should give you a big advantage as most things that ignore stealth in the cygnar army can't threaten jacks. (just make sure to kill the black 13th so they can't signal flare you)

And running up camping won't work if they have Eiryss, which cygnar should.

Wait, how can everything have truesight? Are you refering to the B13?

Everything on Cygnar can have true sight?

Only Kraye or Siege have Mage Sight I think.....
Try to screen better, Def15 is still hitable, (you need mat 12 maximum), try having more synergy to your model

Last night my opponent ran prime stryker, a couple of units of gun mages, with the officer attachment, granting true sight, a sentinel, a few of hunters, a journeyman warcaster, with attched hunter, a stormclad and some stormblades. 50 points worth of the lot.

Apparently a few of the jacks gain true sight from the officers of the gun mages (I think).

No black thirteen yet, dreading them turning up!

Oh geeze, the UA gives them True Sight and it's a tactic? Well that kind of sucks. Without knowing your list, and not really knowing Cryx, the best advice I can give you is screen with units or get smoke on the field. True sight doesn't ignore the fact that Clouds block LOS.

I don't think the jack get true sight by being marshalled, as it is not considered a part of the unit. The gun mage do get true shot though. At max he will have two sets of true sight gunmages(FA2), and unless my ibodger is incorrect you can only have ONE unit attachment, so that is One unit of Gunmages with true sight

Let me count the points
pStyrker +6
Sentinel 4
that is +2 leftover point there
JWC+Hunter 9 points
Gunmages 6
Gunmages +UA + Hunter is 14 points(if the hunter as you said get true sight)
20
Stormblades is 5 , if he marshalled the stormclad here he need to add officer that is +13, so 18 in total

using this
9+20+18=45
we came out to 45 points
He only have 2 Hunter
1 Stormclad
1 Sentinel
as a warjack
and of course only one unit for true sight....

how many exactly did he have?

UA doesn't give the jacks True Sight, he just lets them fire the different types of shots (Crit Brutal, Snipe, Thunderbolt). The only thing with true sight in that list is the Gun Mages themselves and they'll have a hard time scratching heavies with POW 10's even if they do get the Crit.

@ Retrias, not sure exactly what his list was, but looks about ight, with a little extra

I'm leaning towards picking up Epic Skarre and going for a tier 4 theme list. I think my biggest problem is not being fast enough, by using satyxis units, with their SPD 7, advance deployment plus the extra two inches from the tier 4 bonus I can get to grips with the enemy fast enough. Either this or a tier 4 Mortenebra list, extra deployment and cheaper helljacks, plus i get to keep my deathjack.

Hereticdave wrote:Last night my opponent ran prime stryker, a couple of units of gun mages, with the officer attachment, granting true sight, a sentinel, a few of hunters, a journeyman warcaster, with attched hunter, a stormclad and some stormblades. 50 points worth of the lot.

Apparently a few of the jacks gain true sight from the officers of the gun mages (I think).

No black thirteen yet, dreading them turning up!

Looks like someone was cheating a bit... First, ATGM UA is FA: 1 so only one unit could get True Sight. Second, True Sight applies to ATGMs only and not to marshalled warjacks. With Shadowmancer on your battlegroup should have almost nothing to worry about.
BTW - seeing ATGMs and Sentinel in the same list... Never, ever let anyone convince you that Strafe can be combined with Rune Shot.

Hereticdave wrote:@ Retrias, not sure exactly what his list was, but looks about ight, with a little extra

I'm leaning towards picking up Epic Skarre and going for a tier 4 theme list. I think my biggest problem is not being fast enough, by using satyxis units, with their SPD 7, advance deployment plus the extra two inches from the tier 4 bonus I can get to grips with the enemy fast enough. Either this or a tier 4 Mortenebra list, extra deployment and cheaper helljacks, plus i get to keep my deathjack.

Dave, If he has a bit more than that , either he is cheating, or he manage something to fit something that cost 2 point and have a huge impact, He already cheated on you on the true sight part and his FA
Ypu probably want Monty list, She is an assasination jack caster, and at 50 points you surely can reach tier 4, take 5 hitters more than he do , rush everything forward using Monty spells, kill his heavy hitter first, you can leave the Sentinel for later, be sure to kill Hunters in one go or better yet THROW them on Stryker/Whatever is close enough using Seether

I wouldn't call it cheating, we're both fairly new to playing warmachine, keep making plenty of mistakes. We've migrated from 40K and the rules are pretty different, mechanics too. Emjoying it though

Good for you

mazgier wrote:Play SCENARIOS, not plain "casterkill" games for God's sake!.

You know this is a discussion of Warmachine right?

the ony thing most Warmachine players hate more the scenarios is Games Workshop...

CT GAMER wrote:

mazgier wrote:Play SCENARIOS, not plain "casterkill" games for God's sake!.

You know this is a discussion of Warmachine right?

the ony thing most Warmachine players hate more the scenarios is Games Workshop...

Also, every game ENDS when you have killed the other guy caster
Every Scenario have said "Or you are the last warcaster alive"

Yes, I know what the "assassination victory" condition means. However, playing scenario oriented game requires both players to move forward not just stand and shoot the opponent's army. And even if scenario conditions are shadowed by casterkill in WM it's still better than all the crap GW ever released.

Mazgier is right, Scenarios really force your opponent to move out and do something besides play defensively. It's far too easy to win a Scenario and take control of the game if your opponent is willing to camp a few inches from his deployment.

Some of the scenarios look cool, I especially like the look of Mangled Metal. Think next time we may have to try one or two!

You may also try some Steamroller scenarios (Steamroller AKA SR is the official tournament format). They're all designed to provoke really fast and aggressive gameplay. The rules are downloadable from PP site.

mazgier wrote:Yes, I know what the "assassination victory" condition means. However, playing scenario oriented game requires both players to move forward not just stand and shoot the opponent's army. And even if scenario conditions are shadowed by casterkill in WM it's still better than all the crap GW ever released.

If you're both still new to Warmachine, you may also want to try a lot of 35 point games before jumping right into the 50 point level. Fewer things to manage and less to worry about, and the game also plays a little more quickly.

As others have said, scenarios would be great to force your opponent to move towards you... facing a gunline army isn't fun in the first place, and even less so when he can just stand there and shoot while you *have* to advance to do anything.

Cheers guys, I've downloaded the steamroller pack, purchashed Mortenebra (she hasn't arrived yet) and will acquire some warwith sirens sometime soon, I'll post a list in the Warmachine lists section.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Done the list, it's here.