Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I picked up the Wood Elf book yesterday in a fit of rage, and started digging into it for my possible centaur themed army. Looking at the magic list, I started thinking it actually isn't half bad. Of course that is heresy of the basest sort! Especially since their level 4s can take Lore of Beasts. However, I wanted to give a rundown of the spells and my thoughts, and see if you good folks can point out where I went horribly wrong, other than "You should have taken Lore of Beasts" .

Ok, the obvious issue is that the table might not have trees. Like Kroot the WE army is REALLY dependent on a particular sort of terrain being on the table, which is pretty silly. Yea, you can bring your own 6" forest, but it is going in your deployment zone. Eh... but still, assuming there are a few woods.

1: Tree Singing 4+: Move woods, and the troops in them, is sort of weird, but could be handy for scooting your troops back a bit so that they get another round of shooting, assuming there are zero enemies in the woods and ALL your models are in it. So yea, not happening.
However! It is also a D6 Str6 magic missile with unlimited range if the enemy is in a woods. That's actually pretty cool for the tiny casting cost. It depends on there being woods about, but offers some nice area denial capabilities, and since it isn't actually a magic missile, if you have troops in combat in a woods you can smack around their enemies. So not too bad.

2: Furry of the Forest 6+. A guy in a fox suit jumps out and... wait... of FURY of the Forrest! Well, that's less horrifying. Half decent magic missile that does bonus damage if the target is near a woods. Ok, not too bad. Not as good as DE Doombolt, but close, and as good if there are trees. (sigh)

3: Hidden Path 7+: Ignore terrain and non-magic shooting? Wow? For elves on horses playing keep away, that's pretty hot. Also all the big things that fear cannons can ignore them (unless they are magic dwarf ones). I see a lot of uses for this spell.

4: Twilight Host 8+: Cause Fear/Terror, without the taking a Ld test to target the buffed unit, but 1 cheaper than Slaanesh's version. Fairly ok, neat with some of the Kin and Wild Riders to squeeze out Terror.

5: Ariel's Blessing 9+: Regen is good, especially when your armor is made of wet leaves (well, if you pay the upgrade cost for wet leaves.) 2 more expensive than the Nurgley version, one more than the Life version but without the lore bonus. I can accept that.

6: Call of the Hunt 11+ : Ok, this is bad. +1 A if you are in combat is ok, but making you charge if you are not is pretty questionable. Nice if your tree-men-kin embarrassingly fail their charge and need to make the last 5-6 inches, but not too exciting.

Overall, I really am struck by how cheap every spell is. A level 2 has a fair chance on casting the first 2 on one die, and almost certainly will get all but Call of the Hunt on 2. It seems to me that combined with a level 4 with Beasts you could get some interesting level 2 spam going on, casting the Beasts bits you need then throwing single dice at damage spells.
On the other hand, there are different fingers. Mostly the fingers needed to count up how much more expensive the woody casters are than one would think. However, it seems to me that if one were on a budget, say because you blew your Lord points on Treemen Ancients and Highborn, a few level 2 Athel Loren casters are pretty cool ways to get budget versions of the big boy spells, with maybe a magic bow shot here and there as well.

Any wood elf players (or murderers) have any input on that?

My Lore of Beasts boner is so unrelenting that if I even remotely had the option of taking it, I would. That said, here's my single comment:

Wehrkind wrote:6: Call of the Hunt 11+ : Ok, this is bad. +1 A if you are in combat is ok, but making you charge if you are not is pretty questionable. Nice if your tree-men-kin embarrassingly fail their charge and need to make the last 5-6 inches, but not too exciting.

That spell is one of the very last ways left to charge outside of the movement phase. (The rest of the club is vanhel's and the anvil of doom.) Which makes me surprised that it doesn't get talked about more, since that's such a huuuuuge deal that GW has been eliminating it with every redone magic lore so far. Maybe I don't get the intricacies of the spell? You seem pretty down on it ...

- Salvage

Well, the issue I have is that most WE units don't want to be in melee, and with Mv5 on Arboreal Americans and 9 on Equestrian Elves getting into melees when you do want to shouldn't be too hard. Plus People of Tree don't care if they get charged too much since ASF for charging isn't in the offing anymore. Basically I am seeing it as a spell slot taken up that doesn't do much 5 of the 6 turns of the game. +1 A is nice, but with such low Str on base elves doesn't compare well to Wildform's +1Str/T, the latter benefiting every attacker, not just the front rank.
If you got +1 A AND charged, ok that's pretty cool. But A OR charge is weird. I dunno, compared to the rest of the lore (other than Hidden Path) I would be a little bummed to get Call of the Hunt instead of something else.

Perhaps saying it is straight bad is a bit much though. Underwhelming might be a better word.

If I could get this on my WoC though... every time I could baby.

Boss Salvage wrote:My Lore of Beasts boner is so unrelenting that if I even remotely had the option of taking it, I would. That said, here's my single comment:

Wehrkind wrote:6: Call of the Hunt 11+ : Ok, this is bad. +1 A if you are in combat is ok, but making you charge if you are not is pretty questionable. Nice if your tree-men-kin embarrassingly fail their charge and need to make the last 5-6 inches, but not too exciting.

That spell is one of the very last ways left to charge outside of the movement phase. (The rest of the club is vanhel's and the anvil of doom.) Which makes me surprised that it doesn't get talked about more, since that's such a huuuuuge deal that GW has been eliminating it with every redone magic lore so far. Maybe I don't get the intricacies of the spell? You seem pretty down on it ...

- Salvage

I don't think that GW is eliminating it because it is a big deal. They are just trying to simplify the game. For example, the new TK spell gives an extra attack rather than fighting another round of combat. It streamlines the game. Unfortunately for TK, the lack of a second chance at charging is a big deal because they have chariots who benefit from charging. With WEs it is not so big a deal.

Lastly, GW limits bad stuff as well as good stuff. Almost all of the new TK stuff no longer have maximum unit sizes. One exception are Tomb Swarms, which are far from being a stellar unit.

Back on topic, Hidden Path and Ariels Blessing are really nice. However, I have found that WEs really need to take lore of Life. It is just a great all around lore, with lots of killing potential in dwellers. WE need the killey stuff because the shooting just does not stop large blocks of infantry.

I too think its a streamlining thing...

It really feels with the new books/new rules they are trying to keep all the phases unique....

You only move in the movement phase, you only do magic and blow things up in the magic phase, and you only shoot in the shooting phase. It also makes for a smaller barrier for new players. I hated playing tomb kings in 7th edition just because there was sooooo much to think about... Ok If i move here, then they move, and I dont stop that spell they will charge, then I have to worry about the extra attack spell etc etc.....

Would like to comment on a tactic I saw recently with spamming Treesinging,

you get your free wood (or any other for that matter) and stick a unit of Dryads in it (people over at Asrai.org are starting to take more 20 an Dryad units) you can then have this unit "Tree Surf" up an opponents flank and they now have to deal with a Stubborn block of quite hardy S4 T4 A2 infantry.

I am actually looking to get more Dryads and try this out myself at some point.

That was a common trick in 7th ed, usually with a treeman or some other surprise instead. The only problem with dryads is that to move they have to all be in the wood, and with that 1/2" spacing, you can probably only be what, 4-wide? (Maybe 5 if your opponent is cool with the majority of the base being in the wood, but not all of it, which seems OK to me).

I don't have a ruler handy but I think it might only be 4-wide, 4-deep... so 12 dryads total.

If you roll big on winds of magic I can see this helping a little bit, but mostly it seemed like a waste of dice in 8th ed compared to other athel loren spells.

4 wide by 4 deep = 12?

I think you need a calculator more than a ruler man Traditionally 4x4 = 16

Seriously though, I don't know how I feel about dryads and tree surfing. d3+1 isn't too exciting a move distance, even with multiple casts at 1 die a pop, and the dryads are only steadfast while they are in the trees, so you have to hope your opponent decides to go after them. Granted, you don't want 12/16/20 dryads on your flank much either, but if they are going to have to leave the woods to get into combat, you might as well just have them march 10".

Of course there is an item that makes the tree singing move d6+1 instead, which is a bit better. And perhaps another possibility is to not have them go up a flank but just slam the wood directly into your opponent, perhaps aiming for a cav unit that doesn't want the wood and would likely break against that many dryads, and sort of make your own flank that way.

Hmm that is an interesting idea. I had considered it mainly for scooting units that wanted to just shoot around to get out of charge lanes and the like, but I could going forest spirit heavy and using it that way.

spaceelf wrote:

Boss Salvage wrote:My Lore of Beasts boner is so unrelenting that if I even remotely had the option of taking it, I would. That said, here's my single comment:

Wehrkind wrote:6: Call of the Hunt 11+ : Ok, this is bad. +1 A if you are in combat is ok, but making you charge if you are not is pretty questionable. Nice if your tree-men-kin embarrassingly fail their charge and need to make the last 5-6 inches, but not too exciting.

That spell is one of the very last ways left to charge outside of the movement phase. (The rest of the club is vanhel's and the anvil of doom.) Which makes me surprised that it doesn't get talked about more, since that's such a huuuuuge deal that GW has been eliminating it with every redone magic lore so far. Maybe I don't get the intricacies of the spell? You seem pretty down on it ...

- Salvage

I don't think that GW is eliminating it because it is a big deal. They are just trying to simplify the game. For example, the new TK spell gives an extra attack rather than fighting another round of combat. It streamlines the game. Unfortunately for TK, the lack of a second chance at charging is a big deal because they have chariots who benefit from charging. With WEs it is not so big a deal.

Lastly, GW limits bad stuff as well as good stuff. Almost all of the new TK stuff no longer have maximum unit sizes. One exception are Tomb Swarms, which are far from being a stellar unit.

Back on topic, Hidden Path and Ariels Blessing are really nice. However, I have found that WEs really need to take lore of Life. It is just a great all around lore, with lots of killing potential in dwellers. WE need the killey stuff because the shooting just does not stop large blocks of infantry.

Well, 2 level 3 mages (1 with the lore of life, the other with lore of beasts) can really buff up the army...and the life attribute can help heal multiwound models such as treemen and treekin...

Wehrkind wrote:4 wide by 4 deep = 12?

I think you need a calculator more than a ruler man Traditionally 4x4 = 16

Yes, it's been THAT long of a week

Edit: Also, the item you're thinking of it I think d3+2 (calaignor's stave) and lets the spellsinger cast that spell as many times as they want. Pretty much required if you want to treesing a forest anywhere! But I don't think it's worth it in 8th (was pure gold in 7th, though).

Lore of Beast.
T5 S5 dryads are pretty brutal.

-Matt

I think the Lore of Athel Loren has a few interesting tricks (that were more effective in 7th) but is just not as exciting as Beasts or Life.

Out of curiosity, with centaurs are you going wildriders? I made mine into centaurs and they look pretty good. They still play ok, but not as good as seventh. They have been much better with a Beast weaver in their midst. . .

Yea, I am running all centaurs (and one alter lord) with GR and Wild Riders. The list is over in the army lists section. Honestly the only victory I am expecting is getting the models built and painted, but even that's a little questionable

Am I missing something? I can't find the part of the army book or rulebook that would suggest that Dryads are stubborn while within a wood.

I think it might be under the skirmishing rules.

xFinality wrote:Am I missing something? I can't find the part of the army book or rulebook that would suggest that Dryads are stubborn while within a wood.

Its in the Forest Rules in the terrain section.