Need Advice: Starting CSM

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**AK907554**

So I got on these forums a while ago asking for advice on a good army to start that matches what I want to do in 40k. Someone advised I do CSM b/c I dont want to do Space Marines or Orks. So I made the decision to go ahead and go CSM and bought the codex. Now I cant decide what box to buy first. It will be my first box in my CSM army. I was told Battleforce Box by the guy at my local GW, but $90+tax seems pretty expensive for a starter kit, though I do see the economic benefit. I was thinking something on a smaller scale. So please tell me what would be the best set to buy starting out. As well I was wondering what would be the best faction (warband? idk I'm new) to start out with. I was thinking Black Legion b/c they are simple to paint (or seem to be) or Word Bearers b/c they look cool IMO. I need a faction that is relatively easy to paint and wont have lots of special rules with different forces than standard CSM (ie Black Templars function much differently than normal SM chapters). So please tell me what yall think will be the best box and faction for me. Thanks AK

**Sir Motor**

Fluff wise,Black Legion and Word Bearers are Chaos Undivided.
So you can add anything you want.

Battleforce is good. I bought 2.
You will need Normal CSM and Berzerker and Rhino.
And possessed is good for conversion.

Or

Demon Prince.
Best HQ. Good kit.

**Chaos Lord Gir**

+1 on the battleforce, its a very handy kit for all your traitor legion needs!

also with CSM codex, its pretty open, you no longer get any bonus/penalty on what legion/war band you choose to use which sucks but anything is open to be used.

black legion is also very easy to paint, but word bearers are seen less so go for it! The bitz on the possessed would suit them so well.

And yes possessed mean BITZ, not soldiers!

**Ailaros**

I'd avoid the battleforce to begin with. It gives you lots of stuff for the price, but it doesn't give you a lot of stuff that you're likely to use in a solid low-points list.

Honestly, I'd start out with just a couple of boxes of regular CSM. You need to take them anyways, and the troops choices are the most powerful part of the CSM codex anyways, so you're likely going to want to take more than the bare minimum.

As for what kind of CSM army, it depends on the play style you want. Regular CSM with special wepaons and an icon (especially IoCG) are pretty darn good, but some of the god-warriors like berzerkers and plague marines are also pretty neato.

Once you have down what you want for your troops choices, then plan the rest of your list out around those squads. What you have planned out should determine what to buy next.

**Hargus56**

I bought a battleforce and a DP. I plan on converting the CSM troops to Plague Marines using largely the guide on GW website for rotting armor and pustules: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat440167a&categoryId=400029§ion=&pIndex=15&aId=1200005&start=16&multiPageMode=true Also if you use the plastic tubes that come on paint brushes that protect the bristles you can make a puss ball cluster of 3 bubbles for the Mark of Nurgle. I also picked up zombie heads from the fantasy end and a guitar string for breathing tubes and other tubes. I plan on using the berzerkers on foot and now I just need a 2nd rhino for my 2nd squad of plague marines and a box of berzerkers so I can have 2 berzerker squads on foot. I also plan on buying the terminator box and have the chaos mutation sprue, and will likely trade bitz to make obliterators. Easy and cheap 1,500, I also bought the melta gun pack of 5 as I need 4 for my plague marines.

**Sephyr**

CSM in general doesn't have that many rules variations. As a rule, cult troops are fearless, and then they have one or two added rules to do what they are supposed to: furious charge for berserkers,FNP for plagues, and so on.

The CSM has most of what you'll need for small-scale games. You'll want to avoid Land Raiders, which need at -least- 1500 points to be viable (many don't use them even them, but I like my blood-red raider).

As said, Daemon Princes can be made to fit even small lists and are very handy. Kharn too can single-handedly devastate stuff. If the enemy skips Power Fists to save points, you can pretty much toss him at anything and he'll wreck faces 5 turns straight.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Kharn is one of the better non-Daemon Prince HQs imo. And the CSM battle force can be good depending on what you like. the contents of it can be easily kitbashed into a whole slew of Khorne Berserkers, which are pretty good for their point cost. Alternatively, as Hargus said, you can just make them into Plague Marines easily, and PMs are devastatingly good (to this day my friend still thinks Nurgle is the most broken list in the game. And he plays Imperial Guard). Depending on the size, Oblits can either be a life saver or utterly obsolete. They chew up a chunk of points, but can decimate light vehicles easily.

**AK907554**

Thank you all very much for your help and advice. Based on the forums a majority (3/6 I believe) have either used battleforce or say it was good, then 2 more say that daemon princes are a great hq which is in the battleforce box. Ailaros I thank you for the counterargument and I will keep it in mind when looking for a box after the battleforce. All of you all gave great advice on which chaos faction to use, so now I have one thing left to do: decide (ugh). What it seems to me is that it will either go down to a flip of a coin, whatever materials I have at the time, or whatever my friendly neighborhood gw cashier recommends. Once again thanks much AK.

**Hargus56**

Good luck let us know what you end up doing. Also the possessed space marines are not the best of unit but the bitz are useful if you do go the battleforce route.

**MechaEmperor7000**

The Daemon Prince does not come in the Battle Force Box. However any Chaos Player worth his salt must have one of these beasts, if not two (or three, if you decide to cross over to full Daemons).

**juraigamer**

The battleforce is an excellent and cheap buy. Two units of berzerkers, two rhinos and a mess of troops plus some possessed (something I swear by taking, at least one unit of).

Beyond that, you just need an HQ and you can play. Some of the named HQ's are good, most people will state demon princes are good, however I would vogue for a Chaos lord with a demon weapon any day.

Think of this, Chaos lord with khorne demon weapon and jump pack can have 15 attacks, 16 on the charge, all power weapon attacks at high initiative. That kills stuff dead.

**kronk**

I would recommend you make a 1500 point army list or two then work out what you would need to fill it. Then, buy that stuff as best you can.

I don't play chaos, but I bought the new plastic demon kit because it looks cool to use in my D&D campaign...

**AK907554**

Y'all seem to be really mixed on the usefulness of possessed. Why? Can y'all tell me what I should do with the possessed? I have the bits for normal marines got them from an online trader when I traded them for my old Blood Angels.

**MechaEmperor7000**

The Daemonkin rule that gives Possessed their powers is random, and some of it is downright bad if you get it. Scouts, For example, would REALLY suck if you held them back and intended to use your lesser CSM as a meatshield. Really Possessed only brings a modified S5 to the table. However you can easily get the same result with Charging berserkers, who have an improved weapon skill and more attacks, for 1 point less.

**ghargatuloth**

Mark of Slaanesh works like a charm.