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So a friend of mine has decided to try out the new GK to see if they're any good, and he wants to fight against my Tyranids. I know that the GK are good against Pskers and Daemons, so I came up with a list without any Psykers in an effort to deprive him of his advantages. The list is:

1 Tyranid Prime in a unit with 3 Warriors, all with Deathspitters - 200 points
2 x 15 Genestealers with Adrenal Glands and Scything Talons - 570 points
10 Ymgarl Genestealers - 230 points

My aim is to outflank him with the 'Stealers and put the Ymgarls in some terrain near his forces, so that I can engage him in CC. Based on the emails that we've been sending to each other, his army will include Kaldor Draigo, Terminators, Strike Squads and Assassins. Can anyone, 'Nid players or otherwise, give me some feedback on my choices?

By assassins I'm going to guess either/both Eversor (most logical) and Vindicare (most common) I think your friend will struggle to keep it under 1000 points given what you've listed there Draigo and a base 5 man terminator squad is 475 points expect incinerators (nasty versions of heavy flamers) str 6 ap 4 and either psycannons str 7 ap 4 assault 2 OR heavy 4 or psilencers str 4 ap 5 heavy 6, he will want you to come to him and will also want combat as soon as possible, deny him these 2! if you have any blast weapons (I don't know tyranids that well) be sure to use them.

Major kudos though for not using psykers, it's what every Grey Knight player dreams for in an army that isn't Chaos.

Hope this helps and good luck

Ipnurt

Maybe look at cutting down on Genestealers/Ymgarls here and there to buy a Barbed Strangler (blasts, the odd pinning, wound allocation) and a couple Biovores (blasts, the odd pinning, outrange/indirect).

With no real antitank, I suppose Adrenestealers will need to do. Though if I was playing GK, and if I saw your list, here's how I'd play it:

- Castle in the centre behind a wall of Halberds.
- Wait for DS units to come in and start taking out Warriors/Biovores.
- Wait for Genestealers to appear.

The presence of a Psyrifle would cement this play. I don't play under 1500, so I can't really speak from experience as to how to handle armour at range when a T-fex isn't affordable.

Thanks for the replies. I have a questions or two about your suggestions/ideas though. First of all, are the Grey Knights actually good enough in close combat to defeat Genestealers? And also, what benefit will Halberds actually give? As far as I know, they only give +1 Initiative. I'll keep the suggestions about blast weapons in mind, although he'll have so few units that I don't think I'll be able to reliably hit.

Since my first post, he's been preaching the virtues of Paladins, rad grenades and psychotroke grenades, and he's been asking if synapse creatures are psykers, so I'm sure that his army will be small and that he'll be using anti-psyker weapons/powers. I also know that he has no Imperium vehicles other than a Dreadnought, which is why I'm not using any anti-tank units.

I thought halberds were +2I, that's equal striking with non-Adrenal Genestealers. Without Shadow support, his unit will be striking at S5 as well; a large blob of Non-Adrenal Stealers will fight well, but probably take enough casualties that they'll not be in a position to follow up with another charge.

Some blast weapons will make sense. If there's two Outflanking Genestealer units, he's going to hide in the middle...

Beware of his Dread, if it's Psyrifle (2 x TL Autocannon with +1 str) it'll wipe out your Warriors in a single volley, cover notwithstanding.

What's your Prime got? Twin Boneswords could be fun against Paladins, and regeneration is bargain on Prime.

NUMBERS you need quantity in your army i see you've taken gene stealers so you've gone you quality but you will never beat the GK in a match of Quality get lots of numbers to over whelm them

nice choice with the no psykers but don't forget that all GK are psykers if the 'nids have a good anti psyker unit take them

good luck

dark eldar are probs the best against GK they have a hell of a lot of anti-psyker abilitys

The Prime has a deathspitter. I'm actually trying to use him and the Warriors as decoys to soak some fire so that the 'stealers will take less casualties, although removing all the deathspitters could get me a barbed strangler for the Warriors and either twin boneswords or regeneration on the Prime. I should probably do that.

My friend also never uses two ranged weapons on his Dreadnought, instead going for one ranged weapon and the CC weapon with it's built in weapon. Sometimes he doesn't even upgrade it.

JamesMclaren123 wrote:NUMBERS you need quantity in your army i see you've taken gene stealers so you've gone you quality but you will never beat the GK in a match of Quality get lots of numbers to over whelm them

I doubt that hordes of gaunts or rippers could do much against a 2+ armour save. Are you suggesting that I dump all the 'stealers in favour of weaker units or keep some in?

EDIT: After mathhammering for a bit, it actually seems like a viable option. Here's a revised army list:

HQ

1 Tyranid Prime with twin boneswords and regeneration - 100 points

Troops

20 Genestealers with scything talons and Adrenal glands - 380 points

2 x 20 Hormagaunts - 240 points

16 Termagaunts - 80 points

3 Warriors with barbed strangler - 100 points

3 Warriors with barbed strangler - 100 points

Total - 1000 points

S5 vs disruption element of blasts, break tests at Ld-1, and pinning tests? Easy choice to make, especially when you have no need to shoot AV10 stuff.

Maybe blob the Warriors together and redirect some of the points to a 2 Biovore brood? If it's Objectives, you need a force to sit back and camp anyway, they can sit with the Termagants and Lurk. If it's Kill Points, deploying them alone in a remote location forces him to either send a much more expensive unit their way for the KP, or else take an ongoing barrage that threatens pinning and which only his Dread can shoot down.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and also noting that your only anti-dread is the Genestealers. So if you can't guarantee a decent charge with them, you'll have to isolate or tarpit it. There's an argument for Hive Guard, both to shoot up Dreads and get the occasional ID past Paladin armour.

Zannthebored wrote:The Prime has a deathspitter. I'm actually trying to use him and the Warriors as decoys to soak some fire so that the 'stealers will take less casualties, although removing all the deathspitters could get me a barbed strangler for the Warriors and either twin boneswords or regeneration on the Prime. I should probably do that.

My friend also never uses two ranged weapons on his Dreadnought, instead going for one ranged weapon and the CC weapon with it's built in weapon. Sometimes he doesn't even upgrade it.

JamesMclaren123 wrote:NUMBERS you need quantity in your army i see you've taken gene stealers so you've gone you quality but you will never beat the GK in a match of Quality get lots of numbers to over whelm them

I doubt that hordes of gaunts or rippers could do much against a 2+ armour save. Are you suggesting that I dump all the 'stealers in favour of weaker units or keep some in?

EDIT: After mathhammering for a bit, it actually seems like a viable option. Here's a revised army list:

HQ

1 Tyranid Prime with twin boneswords and regeneration - 100 points

Troops

20 Genestealers with scything talons and Adrenal glands - 380 points

2 x 20 Hormagaunts - 240 points

16 Termagaunts - 80 points

3 Warriors with barbed strangler - 100 points

3 Warriors with barbed strangler - 100 points

Total - 1000 points

i'm not sure, i don't 'nids so i don't know thier strenths plus i forgot that genesteelers have rending claws. i was working of the premice the more attacks you made the more chance you have to get through the armour. i think the termagaunts are not such a good idea as they won't deal to much damage and they are almost useless when your units get into combat.

I'm only a fan of Termagants for three purposes:

- home objective camping without Synapse support, Lurking every turn and Going To Ground and waiting for the cavalry if anything bigger than a Guard squad comes near.

- unlocking Tervigon Troops and benefitting from synergy.

- Mycetic Spore Devilgaunts. (Devourers.)

16 Termies sounds reasonable for a unit capable of guarding in small scale Capture & Control or Seize Ground. As long as the Dread can be Stealered or isolated, seems like a fairly capable list. I prefer to give Hormagaunts Tyrant support and Toxin Sacs, but in these numbers they'll have potential. Just don't go near Purifiers without having Synapse handy to block their utterly evil anti-horde power; it's an absolute killer and the single biggest danger to your list.

Ipnurt wrote:By assassins I'm going to guess either/both Eversor (most logical) and Vindicare (most common) I think your friend will struggle to keep it under 1000 points given what you've listed there Draigo and a base 5 man terminator squad is 475 points expect incinerators (nasty versions of heavy flamers) str 6 ap 4 and either psycannons str 7 ap 4 assault 2 OR heavy 4 or psilencers str 4 ap 5 heavy 6, he will want you to come to him and will also want combat as soon as possible, deny him these 2! if you have any blast weapons (I don't know tyranids that well) be sure to use them.

Major kudos though for not using psykers, it's what every Grey Knight player dreams for in an army that isn't Chaos.

Hope this helps and good luck

Ipnurt

Sorry for going off at a tangent, but how the heck are eversor's most logical.

Callidus can kill whole squads of Terminators making back the points with ease. Eversor can have huge amount of attacks but has too get there and everyone is weary of assasins so he will be killed. Vindicare is obviously a good choice Str 3 + 46 and rending against vehicles. He can take out LR with ease and can ruin any IC/Invun Sv things. He rules the block. And Culexus just isn't worth it. Good as a Distraction but highly useless it's as good as a Vindicare in the assault. So Culexus won't be taken unless your oppenent fields Doom of Malatai often.

I would say as a GK who plays against Nid's that LW/BS warrior/Shrikes make me shiver.

HQ
Prime /w deathspitter + regen + rending claws= 100

Elite
x2 Hive guard = 100

Troops
x15 Genestealers /w Adrenal gland + toxin sacs = 300
x15 Genestealers /w Adrenal gland + toxin sacs = 300

Heavy
Trygon =200

So the Toxin sacs will grant you to re-roll your wounds on any T5(off the charge) unit, giving more chance for rending. The Hive Guards will put some holes into the Assassins, and ID them, Impaleres are 24" S8 Ap4 that doesn't need LoS and negates cover unless they are standing in it. join the prime to the Hive guards to soak up wounds. and the Trygon will draw ALL the fire, trust me, and chances are he wont even die.