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So I'm having great fun with my evil ratmen, particularly the Stormvermin. I'm not sure why most people are so hard on them, WS4 S4 I5(!) and a magic banner have been totally worth it.

Anyway, I love all the cheapo Engineers Skaven can field, and I've been contemplating adding an engineer with this noxious potable. The question being is Hatred, Frenzy or Death Frenzy worth 65 points?

I've tried it only once. Killed off 3 of my clan rats before the game started. Still, I've considered running it again...

I have been thinking of trying skavenbrew too. Stormvermin seem a bit too expensive to use it on but a huge unit of 50 clanrats with spears sure does sound like a good time to me.

The reason people dont like stormvermin is because for the same cost you can get 2 units of clan rats that are the same size, which are vastly superior.

I'm thinking of cobbling 10 together to put on guard duty for my warmachinesp lightning cannons. (let's be honest)

10 points cheaper for the minimum squad size, still gets access to a weapon team, and gets me one of my two magic banner slots (plague monks being the other... BSB doesn't really count.)

Plus the models are pretty fantastic!

ShivanAngel wrote:The reason people dont like stormvermin is because for the same cost you can get 2 units of clan rats that are the same size, which are vastly superior.

Stormvermin are 7 points, Clanrats are 4.5. Exaggerate much?

I would never rely on clanrats to actually kill stuff. Spears on them (on anything Skaven, really) are a waste. 20-25 points (depending on unit size) for half a dozen WS3 S3 attacks? No thanks. Clanrats are tarpits, just as slaves. Slaves are superior in this role due to their cost and blowing up instead of running, but Clanrats have a role when you need more banners/weapon teams or a unit to push the bell/hold BSB.

The dislike of Stormvermin I think is all group-think and theory-hammer, and perhaps a carry-over from last edition. Having actually ran the Stormvermin, being able to strike on the same initiative as elves (or at least deny them the re-roll) is golden. The additional WS and S actually makes them pretty capable at killing stuff, especially if a Chieftain is along for the ride.

As for losing 3 before the game starts, you can imbibe the potion pretty much whenever you want, so nothing is forcing you to activate it early and have to deal with compulsory movement. Just chug when you are about to engage the enemy.

Well, I think I convinced myself. I'm going to give this a shot next time I'm running my Chieftan+Stormvermin block.

Stormvermin are 7, clanrats are 4, I thought stormvermin were 8 each.

Also very rarely will elves not get rerolls, they are also I5 or better.

The dislike of stormvermin is not theory hammer, I have been disappointed with how they perform in every single game I have used them in.

Yes, the base I for High Elves is 5. ASF requires that you match or beat the I of the opponent to re-roll. So, HE will be re-rolling against Stormvermin.

I had a lot of success with storm vermin.
You get 50 with full command and a magic banner for under 400 points.
It's a surprising amount of hitting power.

I think most skaven players are spoiled with 2 point slaves, and think that 7 points is outrageously expensive.


-Matt

The reason why I want to upgrade one of my blocks of Clanrats to Stormvermin are twofold:

1) I want something that can fight in close combat. I think the 2.5 points to upgrade a Clanrat is worth it - +1 WS, +1 I, and +1 Str. I wouldn't want a complete army of Stormvermin, but one block of 30-35 would be nice.

2) My BSB already carries the Storm Banner and I want something to carry the Flaming Banner (due to the ubiquitous Hydras, HPAs, and other units with Regen.)

Zoned

I have considered running it for a while now. The problem I have is I keep finding a better use for those 65pts.

I'm always torn on what banner to give them. BSB usually takes the Storm Banner, gets put in a second rank somewhere, and tries to keep his nose clean.

So that leaves Flaming Banner (for above reasons), Banner of the Under-empire (2d6 S2 automatic hits against every unit in combat is great for a big central unit), and Razor Banner (ignore heavy armor completely). Argh, I hate having to choose and how limited we are on magic banners.