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So this is my first attempt at a DOA list!

HQ:

Librarian w/ JP UR and Sang Sword

Reclusiarch w/ PF

Elite:

Furioso Dreadnought
Drop Pod

Sang Guard w/ PF and Chapter Banner

Sang Priests x2 w/ JP and LC

Troop:

Assault Squad x10 2x Meltaguns and PF

Assault Squad x10 2x Meltaguns and PF

Scout Squad w/ 5x Sniper Rifles

Death Compnay x5 - PF and 3x PW
Drop Pod

Death Company Dread - Blood Talons, HF
Drop Pod

Fast Attack

VV x5 w/ 2x PP, 2x PW, Glaive Encarmine


The only thing I am concerned about is the scout squad. I am planning on outflanking/reserving them and then using them as an objective holding unit, but they really dont fit the list.....

Also, I know there are many out there that don't like PW on the Sang Priests but I have found they do come in handy and I like the extra punch it gives the squad they are attached too.

Please help me with this list!

Cheers!
Falco

Not bad for a first stab! But here's what I would look at:
I'd be looking at changing sanguine sword to blood lance. Blood lance is too nice when you land, I've popped lines of vehicles and sniped a character all with one lance. Very valuable power, and besides, if you're stuck in combat you'll want to use UR. (Coupled with UR your unit's PF will do the job)

The death company could work but I'd rather an assault unit. Sure you lose your DC dread, but you get a versatile scoring unit in return. Death company are just too expensive. :( Scouts aren't a bad idea as you don't want to camp a home objective with an expensive assault squad :E but they need camo cloaks!. Plasma pistols on the VV unit are pointless as they can't shoot before heroic intervention, I'd also reccomend a TH in there just in case you need to stop a vehicle from firing.

If you do drop the DC the reclusiarch isn't really needed either. If you want another HQ I'd get another Libby, only thing better than a blood lance is 2 blood lances.
The Dread could be good but I personally don't use one. If I did use one I'd want him to be a libby dread with wings. Fits in much better and... Another blood lance!? :]

Sanguinary guard.. Again they're a decent unit but I'd choose an honour guard with 4 meltas and a couple of storm shields maybe. 2+ saves sound lovely and all.. But tell it to the melta/plasma spam guard army. (or a vindicator)

Here's what I run.

Dante

Honour Guard (5)
Blood Champ
4 Meltas
Chapter Banner
Storm Shield x3

Sanguinary Priest x2
Power Weapons (keeping them..)
Jump Packs

Assault Terminators (5)
3x SS/TH

Assault Squad (10)
Power Fist
2x Melta

Assault Squad (10)
Power Fist
2x Melta

Assault Squad (10)
Power Weapon
2x Melta

Scouts (5)
Sniper Rifles
Camo Cloaks
Missile Launcher

Vanguard Veterans (5)
Thunder Hammer
Power Weapon x2
Storm Shield x3
Jump Packs

Only reason I'm running dante is so my honour guard can melta stuff, get into combat, and get back out again with hit and run to melta more stuff! :] Also they can land without scattering. You can pretty much guarantee a tank is getting popped as soon as they land.

Thanks for the guidance! i have the majority of the models on your list so I should be able to play test it and see how I like it. I especially like pairing the HG with Dante, fully taking advantage of his H&R rule.

The DC are always a hard choice in my list building. they just cost so many points it hard to justify them sometimes. however the DC Dread is the reason I took them before along with the fact they will soak up some enemy fire allowing the rest of the army to drop on the table...

In your opinion how does DoA average out? I have this huge fear that the army will come in piece meal and just get picked apart! Regardless of the re-roll.

Not a bad plan there with the DC as a distraction - that's pretty much exactly why I took my terminators. They can soak it up. :]

Well I've playtested my above list about 20 times, and it's 14-6 W/L ratio in my local league with some really good players!
I'm the only person there who runs a list like this aswell, which is a help. The army is very competitive and things generally turn up as you need with the re-roll.
If you get the odd unit held back then great, you can use them next turn when they WILL arrive xD. The rest of your army shouldn't die in the meantime. If it does, you've done something wrong.

It's great fun to play and will probably get a 50/50 record for a while until you really get to grips using it against different army types. But it gets better from there on in! You'll learn what works and what doesn't.

question on the VV. how do you have them set up? ie. do the models with PW's and the TH have SS? Also, what are your personal thoughts on the PW on the priests??

Well I've got the 3 PW dudes with the storm shields. Upon thought it'd probably be wise to have one of them on the TH.
As for PWs on priests. I understand why people wouldn't do it because priests in b2b can be picked out. But if somebody wants to pick out your priest, they will try to when they pile-in regardless. So I'd rather have the priest take a few models down first. Also, he doesn't have WS5 for nothing! :]
There are alot of people who'd shoot me for saying it but.. Take the PW all day long.. Just be cautious, don't put him in b2b with an enemy PW or PF if you can help it.

Great! thanks for the help. I will see what i can do with the VV. I share similar thoughts on the PW for priests. They are not WS5 for nothing! Plus (random side comment) I had a single priest w/ a LC (on the assault) beat a unit of Necron warriors w/ Lord in h2h where they promptly failed their leadership and ran off the board! ftw.

i also agree with the power weapons on priest,

many people are like arghhhhhn nooooo! but i have found them to be quite useful.

i run a complete DoA list at the moment and have now won 4 games in a row.

at 1500 points i run

librarian w/
jump pack
unleash rage
shield

priest w/ jump pack

priest w/ jump pack

assault squad x 10
2 x plasma pistols
1 x power fist

assault squad x 10
2 x hand flamers
1x infernus pistol
1 x power weapon

sanguinary guard x 5
death masks
chapter banner

vanguard veterans x10
(remember the old veteran box sets you could get? the two boxes with 5 veterans in each. well them with jump pakcs.)

vanguard are awesome terminators dont stand much of a chance against them as my friends deathwing army found out the other day

my list may be slightly over at present, as it was made by just tweaking an old list in a hurry before a game.

when i re-write it properly i will post

priests with power weapons FTW!!!!!

Drop the plasma pistols the hand flamers and the inf pistols cmjs123 give them 2 melta guns and a pf and you are set for anything.

Death masks are a waste of time since it dose not effect most things,

First list dont give the rec a pf leave him stock he has a pw and he is 130 points stock.

I would drop the dc you can get another dread as is because 3 priests only take up 1 elite slot.

That and dc unless the list is built around them is ineffective. I would drop the sanguinary guard and get a dread instead they are cheaper and more effective.

I would say add speeders they can deep strike and the points you pay for a hf mm speeder is worth it when they kill tanks and hordes.

No lcs on priests I would say keep them stock since anyone that knows tactics will attack the priest first because he is an independent character and can be targeted in cc and the priest needs to be in base to base to attacks so he will usually get hit back.
So I say he is expensive enough as is with a jp so he really dose not need to be made more pricey for a guy that is supposed t hide in a unit and just buff them.

Drop scouts this is DOA not DOA and scouts if you want to park something to park on an objective 5 assault marines in a las plas razor nothin better maybe a melta gun and a pw just in case but thats for holding objectives.

2 sets of cheap vets are good they are meant to tie up dangerous units for a turn till your marines get their game on.

I disagree on dropping the scouts.
They are cheap. -Check
They can shoot stuff from 36" -Check
They can pin stuff. - Check
They can have a ridiculous cover save. -Check
Perfect base camping unit!

Assault marines in a razor:
Expensive, no ranged firepower (that razor will get popped. Only vehicle on the board syndrome)
And only your bog standard cover save.
Not as good a job for more points.

I don't know why no one brought up stern guard. Thay hit like Mac truck

Stern guard are for crimson fists we use the real vets vanguard vets.

My statement for the razor was meant for a normal army but seeing as you are spending 100 points for 5 guys that arnt that good you could invest those in more push for the front is what im saying

In my opinion, the key to a DoA army is to avoid vehicles like the plague. That includes Drop Pods. Death Company in a Pod is an especially poor idea, since they can't assault the turn they come in, and you won't be able to control them. It might work against bad opponents, but good ones will be able to keep them from doing much damage.

So, a good DoA army should consist of the following units:
-Assault Squads (bulk of the army, 10 man squads with 2 special weapons, usually meltaguns but flamers have their place)
-Vanguard Veterans (Keep them cheap. I like 5 man squads, Sgt. with a Fist and of course Jump Packs. It's really easy to take a bloated unit that won't hold up, avoid that.)
-Librarian (The ideal HQ. He's cheap and makes the rest of your army better. Shield of Sanguinius is a must, Unleash Rage and Blood Lance are also good.)
-Sanguinary Priests (They keep the rest of your army alive, and make them hit harder. I'd avoid Power Weapons, since you want to keep them out of base-to-base. Yes, it is possible if you're clever.)

With the following optional units:
-Honor Guard (For special weapon spam, mostly. If you're going to run Dante, sticking him with a squad with 4 meltaguns isn't a terrible idea.)
-Devastators (5 man squad with 4 Missile Launchers is the best way to go. Plan to start everything but Vanguard Vets on the table against assaulty armies, and stick a Priest nearby)

Other units could work, but either simply aren't that great (Sanguinary Guard, Reclusiarch, Captain) or push you towards hybrid territory (Assault Terminators, Scouts, Sternguard). I understand that hybrid armies work for some people, but I would advise you to get experience playing a very focused (pure) build first.

I wouldn't worry too much about holding objectives, to be honest. For one thing, you don't have to use the reserves reroll if you don't want to. You can try to hold one unit back for late contesting. I definitely think you want everything to have a Jump Pack, as otherwise you will have trouble keeping your forces concentrated. Devastators are an exception, of course, but they are long ranged, while anything else (non-vehicles, at least) will be short ranged. I guess Tactical Squads and Scouts can be long ranged, but Tactical Squads make no sense in any Blood Angels army, and Scouts really can't kill anything at range no matter how they're armed. Seriously, I've run a 4x Sniper, 1 Missile Launcher squad before when I only had a 500 point army, and they are not much of a threat to anything. Their real benefit is that they are a cheap scoring unit that is very hard to kill via shooting, so use them for that if you must.

I would suggest you look at battle reports by the Dakkaite mercer. He has run a variety of Jump Infantry based BA armies, some versions deepstriking, some starting on the table. His reports should give you an idea what to expect and what works.

MrE said it and saved me writing.

You move onto a hybrid list once you are able to move your marines with ease and know exactly what is supposed to happen and where thats when you get fancy but start simple and work your way up.

He is right about the reserves and hey if the enemy has no troops to hold the objectives with well then dont think they can win now can they unless they table you which usually wont happen if you kill their troops.

I especially agree with the last part mercer knows his blood angels like a champ.

yeah i do agree cowpow, as regards the meltaguns and power fist, however the models i own are from a little while back and have not got them weapons modelled on, if i get the chance i will change them to 2 x meltas and a power fist.

i also agree with the death masks, i dont actually remeber using them, so i may just keep them for modelling purposes only, unless i come across something high WS low Ld then i will pay the points for them.

my only problem with this list as far as i can see is objectives?

do you think i have enough troops?

or shall i just annihalate the enemy and get the automatic win. that is what has happened the past few games, just not playing objectives, so it may have a different result when people are using different tactics.

Your HQ is pretty sweet so leave the Librarian but the Reclusiarch doesn't need a power fist, you don't want to strike last with the higher initiative so drop it.

Furioso Dreadnought with blood talons rule, keep a Priest near and they can still furious charge tanks too

Priests do not have power weaps! Keep them cheap there job is to buff units with feel no pain and furious charge not dive into combat kill a few dudes and then die.

Sang Guard are ok but really should be taken in pairs, also don't bother with death masks as they rarely work.

Assault Squads are ok so are the Scouts.

Your Death Co coming down in a Pod cannot assault and they're a assaulting unit, they will just piss in the wind and have no real ranged offense. You could try adding infernus pistols and dropping them in close and just hold a enemy up because they do bring another Pod and another Dreadnought which btw is fine with blood fists, more attacks to smash tanks

Vanguard don't need plasma pistols because they will come down and assault that's why they cost more for. Once assaulting they will either get to assault again if you win combat or consolidate and be shot at and die. Just make them pure combat only.

ljflay wrote:
Here's what I run.

Dante

Honour Guard (5)
Blood Champ
4 Meltas
Chapter Banner
Storm Shield x3

Sanguinary Priest x2
Power Weapons (keeping them..)
Jump Packs

Assault Terminators (5)
3x SS/TH

Assault Squad (10)
Power Fist
2x Melta

Assault Squad (10)
Power Fist
2x Melta

Assault Squad (10)
Power Weapon
2x Melta

Scouts (5)
Sniper Rifles
Camo Cloaks
Missile Launcher

Vanguard Veterans (5)
Thunder Hammer
Power Weapon x2
Storm Shield x3
Jump Packs

Only reason I'm running dante is so my honour guard can melta stuff, get into combat, and get back out again with hit and run to melta more stuff! :] Also they can land without scattering. You can pretty much guarantee a tank is getting popped as soon as they land.

I like this list overall. I run something similar. I find Dante is great for the same reason you use it for your honorguard, but i use it with a honor guard and a libbie with blood lance being able to land right next to a IG parking lot with blood lance isbliss.

I would just limit the amount of storm shields, i personally find they get torn up so fast and its usually better to just have a few here and there to use for wound allocation, so one in the honor guard, and one in the Vanguard. I also personally like lots of units of vanguard vets with very few weapons.

My list off the top of my head:
(all have jps)

Dante
Libbie

Honor guard, 4 melta, storm shield
3x sang priests, one with combi-melta

3x assault squads with 2 melta and PF

vanguard vets, 5 marines, PF, Thunder hammer, 2x meltabombs, stormshield

vanguard vets, 5 marines, 2 PW, stormshield

I use the vanguard to either go after tanks with the PF, or the other one going after troops. I personally dont like giving sang priests wargear since they get picked out in close combat so i like to try to keep them in the back. combi meltas or flamers are nice though.

I was just talking about DoA on another thread, have to run to class so will post what I said there here as well:

I think the focus of DoA lists is the troops. I use three full out units of assault marines with melta, two doesn't seem bad, but i would def give them meltaguns. I like three units that way you can combat squad them and end up with six 5 man assault squads, all with meltaguns, and 3 having a PF as well. That forces my opponent to choose which one to fire out, as well as allows me to spread my units out into smaller teams which can knock out segments of his army. I can spread my units somewhat far apart since i have the mobility to move anywhere to support my other units due to the speed of jump packs. Also by combat squading them you end up with 6 units which can get objectives here. I personally thin kwith DoA normal assault squads are the focus point of the army.

I also really don't like large units of vanguard vets with lots of upgrades, I would rather keep it to small units with a few upgrades to make them have a focus, maybe two "special" weapons in a 5-7 man squad. The issue with vanguard vets is that they can eat up points fast! and if you mess up with your heroic intervention, or cant get to the enemy's nasty units since they are in a land raider, etc. then you end up with a closely bunched up unit asking for a huge ap 2 pie plate to kill them. Even if they get into assault they have so much wargear they will kill the unit and then again be left in the open to get blasted apart by eveyrthing that's AP2. Normally this wouldn't be awful since it does draw fire away from your other units, but that's a third of your army as a fire magnet, against a good player that unit will die pretty fast.

I personally don't like sang guard, much rather have a unit of honor guard with melta and now it gives another FnP bubble. I don't know how i feel about assault termies yet, ive seen quite a few people putting them into their lists. I don't really like termies deep striking much, again i feel like it just draws fire too easily, and with DoA you have to move fast and try to knock out as much of the enemy's stuff as fast as possible before it comes back and wrecks you! things like assault terminators seem to not be able to work as fast as other units, they cant get rid of a tank without being in combat, while another full assault squad could break up into two units and try to hit two different tanks with melta, or a vanguard vet squad could assault with meltabombs, etc. So to me assault termies just draw up fire and can't keep pace with the rest of your army. dreds are great but never used them in a DoA list.

dont really know what the purpose of the scouts here are?

sorry for text blob

Sageheart's list looks good to me, especially for a list with Dante.

To be honest, I wonder if Dante's ability to make Sanguinary Guard a Troops choice isn't a bit of a red herring. As I see it, Sanguinary Guard simply aren't very good, and making them Troops doesn't help that much, especially since a Jump Infantry based army doesn't have a lot of competition for Elite slots. I can't help but think that the main allure of Dante should be his no-scatter ability. Field him with a 4x Melta Honor Guard, and drop them where they can give a FNP and FC bubble to Vanguard Squads. The no-scatter guarantees Melta range and lets you get in danger-close.

Sageheart, is that typically how you use Dante+HG in your list?

Sang guard are not good as troops, i first played BA with that and got wrecked by IG mech, i then switched it to the list there and wrecked him pretty fast.

the no scatter ability is what i use dante for, also he is a great combat fighter. he is a little on the expensive side though.

I fly him right down to IG parking lots, or some nasty vindicators since those will pie plate my units to death, basically anything that is a tank with ap2 weapons, or a group of closely placed tanks. Then i use the melta in the HG, and dante's inferno pistol to knock out one tank, while the libbie in the HG as well uses blood lance to hopefully get at least one. Blood lance is allowed to shoot at a separate target which is why its great here.

then Dante becomes a fire magnet, and you just try to keep him alive enough to soak up all your opponents firepower and hopefully get some nice kills. He can be a beast in just messing with your opponent since everyone seems to like chasing and focusing on the expensive character and ignore the 30 something assault marines taking the army apart.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
so yes it is

You know, I never thought of putting a second IC in with Dante's unit. That's a really good idea, since the number one issue with the Dante+stuff combo is that the squad has to shoot at the same target.

it really sparks up blood lance's ability as well. It is an expensive unit, but it has a lot of survivability, and if you place some more storm shields it can handle quite a bit! I like one so i can wound allocate from the storm shield, and dante's save. If i haven't killed most of the ap nasties by turn two or three then the list is in for some rough trouble. i feel like its that way for all DoA lists.

Ok so after reading all the comments posted I came up with this list (it still includes Drop Pods and PW on the Priests, Sorry MrE).

HQ:

Dante

Libby w/ JP UR and Blood Lance (DoA with Dante and HG)

HG w/ JP, 3x SS, 3x Meltaguns,

Elite:

Sang Priests x2, JP and LC

Furioso Dread
Drop Pod

Furioso Dread w/ Blood Talons
Drop Pod

Troops:

Assault Squad x10, PF, 2x Meltaguns

Assault Squad x10, PF, 2x Meltaguns

Assault Squad x5, PW, Meltagun
Drop Pod (this is free, and I took it just to get the 2 Dreads on Table)

Fast Attack:

VV w/ JP's, 3x SS, 2x PW, Glaive Encarmine, TH, 4x Melta-bombs

39 models in total and 2000 pts.

Kinda worried about the low model count. But a static gun line would be doomed I feel.



Thoughts??

Falco wrote:Ok so after reading all the comments posted I came up with this list (it still includes Drop Pods and PW on the Priests, Sorry MrE).

Thoughts??

List questions:
-You mean PW not LC on your priests right?
-How many members are in your VV squad? 5 right? and how are the SS and other weapons layed out?

comments:
-I like the Dante, HG, Libbie, layout. I find it works great in my battles, please tell me how it works for you. I would have one less SS, but that's just me, and I think 3 may actually work better. If you have dreds thou maybe get shield of sang just because all your opponent's anti-tank weaponry will only have those two dreds to shoot, whereas before they could only pick off lone marines. One of the amazing parts of this list, and other such as blob IG (moreso here) is how much it gets rid of the usefulness of enemy lascannons and other anti-tank heavy weapons. But once you add in a little bit of armor, those heavy weapons now have something useful to use their AP and high strength against.

-I like naked priests, but you seem set on the equipment, i would offer you try out combi meltas or flamers instead.

-I'm not bought on the dreds, I don't know how well they would work out. I feel like I would rather just have more assault marines with meltas.. but that's me. I would say that maybe you should take out one dred to add in another squad on assault marines. Tell me how the dreds work, I have been wanting to try out blood talons.

- That last assault squad may want a flamer instead of a meltagun in case you meet up with the occasional blob guard or ork hoard.

- I love the drop pods in some ways, and hate in others.
Drop pods may end up cluttering the field which could mess up your ability to deep strike your other units, def if your enemy plans out his units to try to force you to mishap or split up your force too much (something which could wreck your list, DoA needs to have units working together, not alone.). So that is why I don't like Drop pods.
I kinda like them in the list since you may be able to use the immobile aspect of the drop pod to try to control your opponent's movements by blocking his path, spliting up his forces, or shielding your men from some of his long range weapons or nasty deathstars.


So those are my main comments, I've been working finals here in college so kinda in an over analysis mood haha, so sorry for the long comments

Sorry, I do mean Lightining claws. the re-roll makes them better in my opinion/math hammer shows them to be more effective.

Yes, 5 VV, I was planning on giving the Glaive, 1 Power Weapon, and the TH the SS's.

I agree with you on the Drop Pods, they could work out really well or just be horrible. I will just have to play test to see if i like them or not...If I don't I was thinking of adding another VV squad and increasing the nubmer of guys in the 3rd Assault squad. Denying my opponent anything big to focus AV on is a good tactic and losing one marine is better than losing a dreadnought!

Blood Talons are Brutal! I had a game recently against orks where I was able to put them to the test and it was beautiful! 29 boyz fell to the ancient one in 3 rounds of CC! I highly recomend them to take care of any pesky blobs/elite squads. Terminators will melt under the talons if your dice don't turn on you! add in a priest nearby......ouch.

I was also thinking of adding more template weapons. Maybe if I do increase the number of models in the 3rd assault squad I will double up on the flamers.

Good luck with your finals! Reward yourself with a game of 40k when they are all over!

haha I plan to, this sunday gotta play a game of 40k as a reward for two essays down!

Like your points there. I may have to try out drop pods, and def wanna tryout blood talons they would brutal, i just havent seen them in many lists.