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So 1hadhq and I have been chatting about "the Bloodtide," a phrase used by both Andy Hoare and Matt Ward.
In the 5th ed BGB, Voldorious is mentioned as awakening the Bloodtide. This apparently killed billions and convinced the Ruinous Powers to confer upon the Alpha Legion Strikemaster the status of daemon prince. 1hadhq informs me that Andy Hoare, in Hunt for Voldorious, says the Bloodtide is some kind of weapon created by man during the Dark Age of Technology.
In the new GK dex, Matt Ward has the Bloodtide as some kind of daemonic incursion that possibly entails a physical compulsion. In Ward's account, the Bloodtide is associated with Khorne and the GK are able to withstand its effects by anointing themselves with a mixture of holy oils and the blood of SoBs who has successfully resisted the Bloodtide already.
Does anyone know of any connection between these two instances? Speculation is welcome as long as everyone understands that it's just speculation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/21 23:57:28
Manchu wrote:So 1hadhq and I have been chatting about "the Bloodtide," a phrase used by both Andy Hoare and Matt Ward.
In the 5th ed BGB, Voldorious is mentioned as awakening the Bloodtide. This apparently killed billions and convinced the Ruinous Powers to confer upon the Alpha Legion Strikemaster the status of daemon prince. 1hadhq informs me that Andy Hoare, in Hunt for Voldorious, says the Bloodtide is some kind of weapon created by man during the Dark Age of Technology.
.
..it's ben a wee while but IIRC
Spoiler:
the Bloodtide in that appears in fact to be a pre age of darkness artifically intelligent ( perhaps the intelligence being an accidental or unwanted side affect, and it's own free will and personality changes over the eons too) "colony" of nanobots.
I suspect there is well some connection atwixt the twain, as the means that Voldorius tries to use to control ( a fragment of) the Bllodtide is injected/placed into a human host.
This host... well....
" I require only your survival,that your soul is not consumed by the awakened will of the Bloodtide".
Said vessel, who was already a woman of great faith, willing to sacrifice herself, was "tempered" through both torture and imprisonment.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
We never really get to see exactly what it would do as the heroes of the book arrive in the nick of time and stop the ceremony.
But it describes itself as "the last weapon". And when it was unleashed before it destroyed whole worlds in a single night, so fats that a single spark ignited the corpse gases of a world and it burnt. A titan legion literally fell apart and was destroyed.
It is, perhaps, even possible that it was created by the Necrontyr or the C'tan, but that's speculation based upon how old the AI claims to be.
It's called the Bloodtide, and considered myth to the Imperium, but of note...
And again, we were unleashed upon the worlds of men. We entered the blood, and the blood rose, and worlds drowned.
.
So exactly what/how it chooses to attack is unknown, but the impression I got from things was that when unleashed it attacks in a manner similar to the ebola virus.
A much stronger version of the ebola virus though of course.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
So, in other words, probably nothing at all to do with Khorne except that the Blood God cares not from whence the blood flows.
I had mentioned to 1hadhq that I wondered whether Dark Age of Technology weapons ever used the principles of the Warp. So that
Spoiler:
if the Bloodtide is some gestalt AI formed from swarms of self-replicating nanobots, maybe that's just a scientific way of saying your summoning some kind of daemon.
And that is purely speculation. But it's the only thing that I can think of to tie the two instances together. It doesn't sound like GK would be bothered with what Voldarious did.
The AI element mentions specifically that they are NOT part of the warp or from there. Voldorious found them... it.... and then (mis)used it for his own purposes.
I guess, especially in the ignorance of the 41stM, that an AI -- which is illegal/blasphemous in itself -- is really very little than a daemon. If the primitive "smart" systems on Imperium vehicles are refered to as machine spirits then it's not exactly a huge leap to see self aware machines as being possessed. The only other vehicles/similar with any form of animus otherwise probably being daemonically posessed ones.
If walks like etc etc.
Perhaps the GK scenario was as simple as just needing a "coating" of blood as some (initial or temporary even) form of defense or immunity to the Bloodtide unleashed there, which bought the GK enough time to do what needed doing.
Or perhaps it had been corrupted by a daemon/chaos...
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Good points, all. The ambiguity of issues like this is something that I really love about the 40k Background. The 40k world is wide enough to have similarly named unrelated phenomenon -- and equally wide enough that they could very well be the same. The one problem is how certain of the SoB present would have survived. Some kind of chemical/genetic trait particular to their blood (perhaps especially if some of them came from offworld)? In this case, the GK ritual would have a scientific rather than sorcerous connotation -- although, like you say Red, these are one and the same in 40k. That ritual may have been learned from a tome penned by a Magos Biologis, perhaps, rather than in a human-skin-bound book of Warp magic.
Haven't read the spoilers, but good to see that the Grey Knights have resisted the temptation of the Blood God by slaughtering Sororitas and bathing in their blood
So the blood tide is technological? Perhaps the Wardian Blood Tide is a corrupted one? There are many incidents of Chaos corrupting non-living things too. The Men of Iron incident in Gaunts Ghosts for example.
2011/04/26 22:20:33
Subject: Re:The Bloodtide: Andy Hoare and Matt Ward
I think we shall call them Bloodtide W and Bloodtide H, not Wardian/Hoardian bloodtide...
Blood tide W:
- was inactive,
- the Demon freed is called lord/master of the bloodtide
- the bloodtide corrupted some but others were untouched/immune
- the bloodtide cannot overcome a mixture of blood and holy oils and ...
- Psykers can push back the bloodtide
Blood tide H:
- was inactive,
- was activated by a chaos marine,
- described as a weapon from the DarkAgeofTechnology,
- used once to gain demon prince status, not used in the latest fluff (HfV) of Voldorius as a weapon,
- as a bio-WMD kills effectively whole planetary populations, pretty fast?
Bloodtide W is sent against its controllers enemys, blood tide H not used at all.
Bloodtide W corrupts, Bloodtide H kills.
Bloodtide W is deflected by blood.., bloodtide H seems to ignore certain levels of protection.
Bloodtide W is something badly explained and maybe corrupts taints but doesn't kill.
Bloodtide H is well explained, logical, and surely meant to kill.
Target locked,ready to fire
In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.
H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
2011/04/26 23:04:11
Subject: Re:The Bloodtide: Andy Hoare and Matt Ward
It's possible there is a connection, but personally I think it was a case of both writers having a similar idea independantly of each other, implemented differently.
11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
2011/04/26 23:47:08
Subject: Re:The Bloodtide: Andy Hoare and Matt Ward
Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)
Maelstrom808 wrote:It's possible there is a connection, but personally I think it was a case of both writers having a similar idea independantly of each other, implemented differently.
I agree. When you look at it, I doubt it's anywhere near as clever as Manchu is making it out to be.
Though, really, who knows?
Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.
Besides the title of the piece, are we even sure these two bloodtides are the same thing? Having not read the actual fluff, I can't say for sure, but from the way everyone is describing it, they don't seem very similar. I find it easy to believe that a term as generic as "bloodtide" could be used multiple times in the same fictional universe. Look at how many marine chapters have the word "angel" in the name.
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." -Napoleon
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