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If you do not have a battle wagon with a deff rolla on the table, what are the best options to take out AV 14 with orks? Punch it with Ghazy? DDCCW from kans?

ignore it


If you MUST kill it, punch it with Ghazzy, Kans or Dreds.

Grey Templar wrote:ignore it


If you MUST kill it, punch it with Ghazzy, Kans or Dreds.

This, all the Ork walkers can open a LR up easily.

Also worth noting a normal Nob with a PK can also smash one assuming it only moved 6" in the previous turn. On the charge you get 4 attacks at S9

In any case let it come to you, if you chase after it you'll just get a trail of dead Boyz.

Ram with deff rolla. You'll be best off ignoring it though.

I run a Kan Wall and for the most part, I just ignore LRs. My best shooting is Str8 and most is Str 7 (lootas) or Str 4 (Shootas), which can't hurt it. Any of the LR variants don't put out alot of hurt each turn from shooting, and I can generally soak up what output they do have.

If the LR rushes close to disgorge it's contents, I may toss a unit of Kans at it. However, hitting on 6's, my unit of kans get 9 attacks, so the mathhammer isn't good for getting a glance/pen. The contents are usually more threatening anyway.

zzap guns, i know most people hate em, but i love em

its a gamble but aveage will be str 7, there's still a good chance of a str 8 or higher

So I guess the consensus is to simply ignore it, and clean up the contents.

@heffling: Do you have an 1850 kan wall list? There is tournament coming up in a month at my FLGS.

Heffling wrote: Any of the LR variants don't put out alot of hurt each turn from shooting, and I can generally soak up what output they do have.

I would have to disagree with you on this point. The Godhammer (vanilla) one doesn't have much, however both the other ones can put a lot of hurt on orks. The Crusader has six TL bolters, and a TL assault cannon. So at <12" he is throwing out 12 TL Str4 shots, and 4 TL Str6 shots. Thats gonna put some ouch on your boyz. The Redeemer has the TL assault cannon also, however it throws out Str6 templates. So if its close enough, it can template 2 separate boyz mobz. And seeing as they are very difficult to kill, that much firepower that close is not easily ignorable IMO.

Warboss with PK & attack squig. It'll rip that LR to pieces

If a Redeemer is getting close enough to use its templates, it's close enough for Claws and Walkers to run up and bench it.

1. Warboss on a bike with a klaw
2. DDCCW from Killa kans or deff dreads
3. A unit of 3 Warbikers with the Nob with a Klaw
4. Let it come to you...

Since we're taking battleagons out of the equation how about a trukk with a boarding plank? 4 Str9 attacks on the charge and you get to stay in your ride.

Im of the 'ignore them' school of thought. If it's one of the anti infantry variants, and it's really giving me grief, the power klaws on kans work well.

Its important to remember that you don't actually need to destroy it. Not being able to move or shoot with it is adequate.

G00fySmiley wrote:zzap guns, i know most people hate em, but i love em

its a gamble but aveage will be str 7, there's still a good chance of a str 8 or higher

"Good chance" as in 16.2% chance to glance and less than 10% chance to actually penetrate the rolling bunker. That is, if you didn't miss. I'd rather fire a SAG at it, at least the BigMek gets ordinance 2d6 to penetrate...

PraetorDave wrote:

Heffling wrote: Any of the LR variants don't put out alot of hurt each turn from shooting, and I can generally soak up what output they do have.

I would have to disagree with you on this point. The Godhammer (vanilla) one doesn't have much, however both the other ones can put a lot of hurt on orks. The Crusader has six TL bolters, and a TL assault cannon. So at <12" he is throwing out 12 TL Str4 shots, and 4 TL Str6 shots. Thats gonna put some ouch on your boyz. The Redeemer has the TL assault cannon also, however it throws out Str6 templates. So if its close enough, it can template 2 separate boyz mobz. And seeing as they are very difficult to kill, that much firepower that close is not easily ignorable IMO.

So it kills 6 boyz every turn. Awesome 250 points spent. For template thingy, see lindsay.

Jidmah wrote:

G00fySmiley wrote:zzap guns, i know most people hate em, but i love em

its a gamble but aveage will be str 7, there's still a good chance of a str 8 or higher

"Good chance" as in 16.2% chance to glance and less than 10% chance to actually penetrate the rolling bunker. That is, if you didn't miss. I'd rather fire a SAG at it, at least the BigMek gets ordinance 2d6 to penetrate...

PraetorDave wrote:

Heffling wrote: Any of the LR variants don't put out alot of hurt each turn from shooting, and I can generally soak up what output they do have.

I would have to disagree with you on this point. The Godhammer (vanilla) one doesn't have much, however both the other ones can put a lot of hurt on orks. The Crusader has six TL bolters, and a TL assault cannon. So at <12" he is throwing out 12 TL Str4 shots, and 4 TL Str6 shots. Thats gonna put some ouch on your boyz. The Redeemer has the TL assault cannon also, however it throws out Str6 templates. So if its close enough, it can template 2 separate boyz mobz. And seeing as they are very difficult to kill, that much firepower that close is not easily ignorable IMO.

So it kills 6 boyz every turn. Awesome 250 points spent. For template thingy, see lindsay.

So 6 boyz every turn? Up to 12 it should kill solid 10 orks every turn and up to 24 it kills around 7 (outside cover and moving 6 ofc) - all except multi-melta (which will be there in any case) is twin-linked. Do your math again.

And well...theres also the cargo. Althought TH/SS statisticaly sux against boyz -theyre still good enough to finish up wounded mobs.

Practicaly this leads to big problems in kill point missions for an ork player under specific circumstances since marine player can choose which mobs to thin and assault at the end of the game if ork cant take landraider out.

Outside of cover is not going to happen. We orks do have a almost mandatory HQ known as KFF.

I assume "12 TL Str4 shots, and 4 TL Str6 shots" to be correct, so lets "do my math again"

12 shots bolters at BS4 will hit 8, TL 2.67 more hits
10.67 hits, wound on 4+, 5.33 wounds
5+ cover due to KFF 3.55 dead orks

4 shots autocannon will hit 2.67, TL 0.89 more hits
3.55 hits, wound on 2+, 2.96 wounds
5+ cover due to KFF 1.96 dead orks

1 Shot multi-melta will hit .067
0.67 hits, wound on 2+, 0.55 wounds
5+ cover due to KFF 0.37 dead orks

Total 5.90 dead orks, yeah, I rounded up in your favour.

Math is good, but technically it doesn't have an autocanon.

Still... I agree with you, not that scary with shooting really. more scary is what's inside. I'd rather ignore it for a while and kill everything else.

Then, if for some reason you aren't taking death rollers... power claws are all I'm going to have. Warboss and Nobs should have a good chance if they get enough attacks at it, even if it is moving full speed. If it ever slows down to 6" to fire all the weapons, then it really should die to power claws.

-Myst

Oh yeah I got that one.

So you do not bother to tell circumstances to support your argument or at least explain what you are actually counting.

You do not clarify given table situation and rather than that refer to all knowing fact - that you always have KFF (85 points minimum), are always in range of aura and are only target to pick for vehicle able to shoot after moving.

You refer to "fact" that it is not point-wise to shoot at boyz with raider, but now you have large mob with mek costing MORE than a landraider overall.

I also expect that you are always in cover against bolters and never stucked in one place against templates to take massive casualties from them - because to do actually that is pretty easy with either horde army(where as I expect is everybody under your special KFF) / or hybrid army (where every transported ork have its own KFF generator I guess?).

And there are also AUTOCANON shots from LR...blah blah blah blah blah... RIGHT HERE IS WHERE THE NASTINESS STARTED, AND THE CLIPPED PORTION HAS BEEN SAVED FOR MODERATOR REVIEW. -The Mgmt.

Power Klaws, Power Klaws, and more Power Klaws.

I find anything fast with a PK is usefur for taking out LRs, so that's buzzsaw koptas, Nob bikers with clawz (or a normal biker unit with a nob with a PK) and something with a PK in a trukk with a boarding plank.

Walkers will work too, but I find that something a little quicker will be better.

Shooting wise you could kill it with a shokk attack gun, and maybe a zap gun, if you get lucky.

I also say ignore it. Ive seen people just sit them there in the open as bate, ignore it. If they come to you, even better, then you can krump what ever is inside when they jump out.

But if you absolutely have to take it out, then the above ideas all work really well. Just dont assault one if it moved more then 6 inches, itll just make you un happy

Jolrael wrote:Oh yeah I got that one.

So you do not bother to tell circumstances to support your argument or at least explain what you are actually counting.

I just did in my post - also note that the OP is most likely using a Kan wall which is based around orks having 4+ cover by kanz.

You do not clarify given table situation and rather than that refer to all knowing fact - that you always have KFF (85 points minimum), are always in range of aura and are only target to pick for vehicle able to shoot after moving.

When you're not in range of the KFF, you're in 4+ cover. If a single boy of the huge mob is within the KFF, they all got cover, so it's dead easy to cover two or even three or four mobs underneath it

You refer to "fact" that it is not point-wise to shoot at boyz with raider, but now you have large mob with mek costing MORE than a landraider overall.

You entirely miss the point. The boyz don't NEED to compare points-wise to a landraider. 30 Boyz+Big Mek are going to kill almost anything in your army, while the landraider kills about as much as tactical marines if I choose to ignore it.

also expect that you are always in cover against bolters and never stucked in one place against templates to take massive casualties from them - because to do actually that is pretty easy with either horde army(where as I expect is everybody under your special KFF) / or hybrid army (where every transported ork have its own KFF generator I guess?).

You just stated knowing nothing about orks. There is no Ork hybrid army, orks aren't green skinned space marines. A horde army is either a Kan Wall, which makes all orks have 4+ cover, or uses gretchin as front row, which makes all orks have 4+ cover. Or they use even more orks, rendering 10 dead orks once or twice a game totally irrelevant, when fielding a total of 120-150. Even then, 30 orks will easily be in cover many times, if there is the usual amount of terrain on the board. Not to mention these armies often fielding two KFFs.
Also note that, as lindsay said, a landraider firing two templates will be hit on 4+ and get every klaw and DCCW in range. As you just served yourself on a silver platter, so that landraider should be gone by next turn.

And there are also AUTOCANON shots from LR...blah blah blah blah blah...Why dont you rather argue with your wall which can read your mind and autofail against any irrelevant bs you say? Cuz Im outta here, just flaming here - no real point.

As you accuse me of flaming anyway, even though I simply answered your unfriendly request, I might as well do so:

Edit: FLAMING IS NEVER AN APPROPRIATE RESPONSE TO ANYTHING ANYONE POSTS. TWO WRONGS DO NOT MAKE A RIGHT, AND WILL ONLY RESULT IN BOTH OF YOU FACING DISCIPLINARY ACTION. -The Mgmt.

Wow, so I mistyped auto for assault... this changes everything! Uh, i guess it doesn't. Four shots should be a dead giveaway that this is not an auto cannon, unless you are not that solid on rules yourself.
You posted an unreadable blob of numbers and words, and told me to do my math again, so I did. You seem to be offended by math, nothing I can do about that.
What the hell is "Up to 12 it should kill solid 10 orks every turn and up to 24 it kills around 7" supposed to mean, anyway? After reading it like ten times I figured you were referring to shooting distances. I'm sorry if actually using a readable format on my post offended you, too.
Fact is, cover or KFF should be present all the time, unless the ork player screwed up, so I chose the KFF throw, as it is worse than normal cover save, an thus should even out between shots against cover, shots without cover and shots against KFF cover.

PERSONAL ATTACKS AND CRITICISMS OF SOMEONE'S INHERENT QUALITIES OR INTELLIGENCE ARE SIGNS OF A WEAK ARGUMENT, AND ONCE AGAIN FALL UNDER "TWO WRONGS DO NOT MAKE A RIGHT" TERRITORY. IN MOST PARTS OF THE WORLD THIS IS SOMETHING PEOPLE LEARN AS A CHILD. YOU ARE EXPECTED TO KNOW BETTER IF YOU'RE OLD ENOUGH TO LOG ON TO DAKKA AND POST. -The Mgmt.

b) What do you not understand about hybrid army. So I get when there are trucks or wagonz with some lootaz or orky chopters its kan wall or horde army - thank you for showing me all these armies I didnt know - oh wait I TOLD U!

c) Irrelevant dead? Which scenarios are you plaing? Who killed more points won? This game is about objectives and kill points -Edit: rude and personal remarks snipped.
btw it would be more than two turns - do your math xD).

d) Tacticals with some regular upgrades with a ride are at the same price of the Landraider - Edit: rude and personal remarks snipped.
Conclussion:

Edit: rude and personal remarks snipped.

Jidmah wrote:

G00fySmiley wrote:zzap guns, i know most people hate em, but i love em

its a gamble but aveage will be str 7, there's still a good chance of a str 8 or higher

"Good chance" as in 16.2% chance to glance and less than 10% chance to actually penetrate the rolling bunker. That is, if you didn't miss. I'd rather fire a SAG at it, at least the BigMek gets ordinance 2d6 to penetrate...

never tell me the odds

and yes a SAG is a fine option as well though as it had already been mentioned i figured i'd just just give other options, still i've opened a land raider with a zzap gun and immobalised with kannons (i like ordinance) though my personal favorite canopener is a good old fasioned PK can be served via boarding plank off of a battlwwagon or when the can is close enough to a group of boys w/ a nob or even better my meganobz w/ ghaz for a assault.. nothing like 7 str 10 attacks and 20 str 8 attacks to open something up (my mega nobz squad is ghaz and 5 mega nobz usually) to rip apart damn near anything on the table

Jolrael wrote:So much hate so little time.

a) I spent less time writing and reading everything than it took you to do/read one sentence in any of yours/my posts. If you do not get it, sorry blame your DNA.

huh?
Rule No.1
theres no such thing as being better than someone by reading/writing faster than another person (other than the Guinness world records) and in point of fact, its often better to read slower so that you can comprehend what is being said.

b) What do you not understand about hybrid army. So I get when there are trucks or wagonz with some lootaz or orky chopters its kan wall or horde army - thank you for showing me all these armies I didnt know - oh wait I TOLD U!

that just plainly doesnt make any sense at all im afraid.

c) Irrelevant dead? Which scenarios are you plaing? Who killed more points won? This game is about objectives and kill points -thnx for "irrationality"...(btw it would be more than two turns - do your math xD).

yes, irrelevant, as Jidmah stated, when its 10 dead orks out of 150, its not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, especially if its a KP mission as stated by yourself, as you dont have mobs of just 10 boyz and in that case they arent giving up KP's are they?

d) Tacticals with some regular upgrades with a ride are at the same price of the Landraider - you are only showing you do not know anything about marine codex at all - what is rather typical, people without imagination and other mental assets usually refer to the others as to their own image in the mirror.

you have managed to insult yourself there, and i refer you back to Rule No.1

Conclussion:

Thank you for direct assault on my person - especially idiot was spectacular. Also allow me to thank you that you think I will engage in any further parodies for "contest" with you - you spent so much time "dealing" with me instead controling your ego and actually taking 5 minutes to learn something new that you overhelmed pretty much yourself - there is no need for me to be rude on you.

Stop wasting your time with something you do not have under control. You would not have made it throught the direct confrontation in the public for even 2 minutes. You need to be sharp, flegmatic and fast - no wasting time. Now you day is ruined while next three minutes are all I need to forget that you even exist. You CAN of course spend another 30 minutes persuading this community that youre cool and set up and nothing really gets your head hot - but you can hardly lie to yourself in this matter - I know you cant.

and this is the final straw, this is why im reporting you, this is immature, unnecessary and purposefully inflammatory

Jolrael,

Do you know how Ork armies play? Jidmah made a lot of good points and instead of countering them you just made a bunch of general statements calling him stupid. Most Ork armies can get by quite fine by ignoring Land Raiders for a turn or two.

Yes, the game is about killing stuff. That's the whole point about ignoring the Land Raider. If the Ork player can kill more of the enemy by ignoring the Land Raider... something which is most likely since Orks don't have a lot of really good weapons against Land Raiders but they do have good weapons against other threats, it definately makes more sense than wasting killing power on a big shell that is only going to kill a few models a turn. You seem to think that by ignoring the Land Raider the Ork player is going to ignore the entire enemy army.... and that's simply not the case.

-Myst

Jolrael wrote:a) I spent less time writing and reading everything than it took you to do/read one sentence in any of yours/my posts. If you do not get it, sorry blame your DNA.

Actually, I'm at work and only look at the forum when waiting for code compiling or SQL statements finishing, otherwise I'd join your cute "I read and write faster"-race. You should try red letters, they go fastaa!

THAT'S ENOUGH NASTINESS. THE PARTIES IN QUESTION WILL BE SPOKEN TO BY THE MODERATION STAFF. ANY FURTHER FIGHTING OR FLAMES IN THIS THREAD WILL BE GROUNDS FOR IMMEDIATE SUSPENSION.

Please don't engage in this kind of junk, folks. It just makes you look bad, makes the forum look hostile, and makes more work for the moderators. We really don't enjoy having to clean up threads and punish people.

Eldar Own wrote:Power Klaws, Power Klaws, and more Power Klaws.

I find anything fast with a PK is usefur for taking out LRs, so that's buzzsaw koptas, Nob bikers with clawz (or a normal biker unit with a nob with a PK) and something with a PK in a trukk with a boarding plank.

Walkers will work too, but I find that something a little quicker will be better.

Shooting wise you could kill it with a shokk attack gun, and maybe a zap gun, if you get lucky.

Koptas are str3, so with a buzzsaw they are only str6 (7 with furious charge). That is not getting through AV14. Though all the other suggestions are excellent ideas.

My personal favorite is a Deff Dread with 4 DCCW. Thats 5 attacks (6 on the charge) all at str10. If that isn't a can opener, I don't know what is.

Ive leaned on my dreds PLENTY to pop hard to open av14 and they do a fantastic job doing it. Seriously, get a dred or kans to the LR and laugh like a child as it rips them apart. The ONLY thing a LR or other AV14 has is if it moves enough to make it hard to hit (which in all honesty the opposing player should do that if a dred or kan wall is about to play hulk smash with it)


I used a dred to shut a Necron player up about how bad ass his monolith was. All he kept saying before and during the game was "oh yea good luck blowing up my monolith, its the toughest "tank" in the game blah blah blah" I got in range, he scattered badly and my dred tore his lith apart like a child playing with legos. It was hilarious

^ just last weekend in a shooty ork list on an objective game i had my deff dred, a big mek w/ SAG, and a group of 25 grots w/ 2 ruth on the field. they were on an objective, last turn the IG oplayer had to get close enough to contest, he had to ram through the deff dred... insted he got immobalised to a death or glory

as for kans .. i try not to melee with em, thier weaponskill is just terrible