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G00fySmiley wrote:^ just last weekend in a shooty ork list on an objective game i had my deff dred, a big mek w/ SAG, and a group of 25 grots w/ 2 ruth on the field. they were on an objective, last turn the IG oplayer had to get close enough to contest, he had to ram through the deff dred... insted he got immobalised to a death or glory

as for kans .. i try not to melee with em, thier weaponskill is just terrible

Awesome move on the Dread there.

I know kans are better are shooting, but against vehicles it doesn't matter if they are WS 1 or WS 10 ... they still hit the same!

-Myst

Mysticaria wrote:

G00fySmiley wrote:^ just last weekend in a shooty ork list on an objective game i had my deff dred, a big mek w/ SAG, and a group of 25 grots w/ 2 ruth on the field. they were on an objective, last turn the IG oplayer had to get close enough to contest, he had to ram through the deff dred... insted he got immobalised to a death or glory

as for kans .. i try not to melee with em, thier weaponskill is just terrible

Awesome move on the Dread there.

I know kans are better are shooting, but against vehicles it doesn't matter if they are WS 1 or WS 10 ... they still hit the same!

-Myst

Tis true, however after the tanks are all dead, or you are facing nids, they are going to go after something else. So the lower WS is going to cost you...eventually.

I wouldn't worry about the lower WS.


90% of the time, it just means you are getting hit on 3s which doesn't make a huge difference to a Kan. having a better WS wouldn't save you in most situations.

on the rare occcasion you run into WS7 making you hit on 5s, well, you are probably screwed anyway.


the Str10 is what matters.

G00fySmiley wrote:^ just last weekend in a shooty ork list on an objective game i had my deff dred, a big mek w/ SAG, and a group of 25 grots w/ 2 ruth on the field. they were on an objective, last turn the IG oplayer had to get close enough to contest, he had to ram through the deff dred... insted he got immobalised to a death or glory

Couldn't find a screengrab of the movie scene with the car, so this Hellboy reference will have to do:

G00fySmiley wrote:^ just last weekend in a shooty ork list on an objective game i had my deff dred, a big mek w/ SAG, and a group of 25 grots w/ 2 ruth on the field. they were on an objective, last turn the IG oplayer had to get close enough to contest, he had to ram through the deff dred... insted he got immobalised to a death or glory

as for kans .. i try not to melee with em, thier weaponskill is just terrible

When attacking non-WS vehicles, the Kans WS doesn't matter. They hit just as well as a WS10 Avatar aginst those targets....all that matters is how fast the vehicle moved
Kans eat LRs for lunch!

Yea against most troop choices youll roll 4+ to hit, and the vehicles have been mentioned already. Seriously, use them kans in assaults!

Really though, the only problem with Dreds, is they become serious fire magnets. I have to hide mine and always keep them inside a KFF bubble just to get them where they need to go. BUT, when/if they get there, they are beautiful weapons of war. I just imagine them flailing their arms wildly like a child on a temper tantrum lol

i use ork nobs with powerklaws in a trukk. each nob is like hitting the lr with a devestator squads worth of lascannon. three knobs is usually sufficient.

Juvieus Kaine wrote:Warboss with PK & attack squig. It'll rip that LR to pieces

Works like a dream. I prefer to throw him on a bike with 5 other Nob Bikers but whatever flavor you want, 6x ST10 hits will turn a LR to mush more times than not.

I guess i shouldn't have pointed so much at the weapon skill as the limited attack numbers, when they do hit they have one ccw.. so one attack >_< kinda takes a long time to kill stuff, can't tell you how many times my best ballistic skill on the board gets gummed up in assault that takes several turns to end counting my kans out of the fight

Im suprised no one has said tankhammers. Str 10 with 8 attacks if you take two. No tank can survive. Personally I ignore or I try and kill it and if I get anything above a 3 I dont do anything more.

InquisitorVaron wrote:Im suprised no one has said tankhammers. Str 10 with 8 attacks if you take two. No tank can survive. Personally I ignore or I try and kill it and if I get anything above a 3 I dont do anything more.

Add a claw on the nob and a tankbust bomb (S6+2d6) for each additional tankbust to that. Tankbustaz can actually bust tanks

G00fySmiley wrote:zzap guns, i know most people hate em, but i love em

its a gamble but aveage will be str 7, there's still a good chance of a str 8 or higher

And you gotta remember, every Glance or Pen causes a Crew Shaken result, along with anything else. Anytime you manage to hit it hard enough, it's not gonna be able to move.

Shaken is not crew stunned. You'd also need to roll 14 or higher on 3d6 to auto-shake.

G00fySmiley wrote:I guess i shouldn't have pointed so much at the weapon skill as the limited attack numbers, when they do hit they have one ccw.. so one attack >_< kinda takes a long time to kill stuff, can't tell you how many times my best ballistic skill on the board gets gummed up in assault that takes several turns to end counting my kans out of the fight

models get their full number of attacks when fighting vehicles.

you also can always count as charging. move away a few inches in your movement phase and then assault the vehicle again.


Kans are getting 2 attacks minimum. don't they have 2 attacks base?

Jidmah wrote:Shaken is not crew stunned. You'd also need to roll 14 or higher on 3d6 to auto-shake.

Not shoot, right. Hey, at first I was going to put "Unable to move or shoot", but I knew it was only one of them. Just, picked the wrong one.

The point stands, though, that there's more utility than just the result you get.

It can still shoot one weapon via spirit of the machine, so even that is moot.

just hope for a lucky glance with the rokkits, but the PKs will do it

U might want some way to kill it, I faced orks and was able to surgically remove anything with a chance to kill my LR, i was then able to roll over everything that was left

I was surprised to see ANOTHER of these threads (theres a "how to orks break AV14" thread on the forum, an the OP didn't actually ask about a landraider, he asked about AV14), but the flaming amused me enough to consider this thread to be worth it.


But the thing that always gets me about these threads is "what do I use to break AV14?", which is a question that can be answered by simple mathematics and a skim through the weapons available in your codex. I think a better question is "how do I use a deffrolla efficiently to take down AV14?" or "how do I use Kans to take down AV14?", or "this is what happens frequently when I play against ol' dirty pete and his landraider, how can I stop this from happening?"

Because the question in the OP really is answered by "anything str9+ in your codex that isn't a deffrolla", and is that really worth a thread on dakka about? or is it something you can ask someone at your FLGS, or in your gaming group, or deduce it yourself via simple maths?

CrashCanuck wrote:U might want some way to kill it, I faced orks and was able to surgically remove anything with a chance to kill my LR, i was then able to roll over everything that was left

Did your opponent not have many embedded PK Nobz? I can account for shooting out a few Dredz or Deff Rollaz, but surely a savvy Ork will bring along some blobs with an S9 charger hiding...

lindsay40k wrote:

CrashCanuck wrote:U might want some way to kill it, I faced orks and was able to surgically remove anything with a chance to kill my LR, i was then able to roll over everything that was left

Did your opponent not have many embedded PK Nobz? I can account for shooting out a few Dredz or Deff Rollaz, but surely a savvy Ork will bring along some blobs with an S9 charger hiding...

4 attacks hitting on 6+ glancing on a 5 pen on 6.

A savvy ork player, with nothing but single nobs in mobs of boyz as there ONLY anti-LR weapons, would be sweating. A not so savvy ork player...

CrashCanuck wrote:U might want some way to kill it, I faced orks and was able to surgically remove anything with a chance to kill my LR, i was then able to roll over everything that was left

Hiding powerklaws in mobs of boyz to soak up the wounds, stunned results from Lootas/rokkits glancing make it a stationary target. How much of a priority it is would depend on what else is on the field. It could be enemy #1, it may just be a secondary annoyance not worth the firepower to take it down...

elchristoff wrote:

CrashCanuck wrote:U might want some way to kill it, I faced orks and was able to surgically remove anything with a chance to kill my LR, i was then able to roll over everything that was left

Hiding powerklaws in mobs of boyz to soak up the wounds, stunned results from Lootas/rokkits glancing make it a stationary target. How much of a priority it is would depend on what else is on the field. It could be enemy #1, it may just be a secondary annoyance not worth the firepower to take it down...

You can't even glance with Lootaz, and if you want to base your tactic for my landraider around "throw rokkits to glance it so I can try melee it" is not so good, when my 15p of extra armour ignores stunned.
aaaand now its tank shocking you off your objective, with a bunch of scoring marines inside!

Good luck with that.

Jihallah wrote:

lindsay40k wrote:

CrashCanuck wrote:U might want some way to kill it, I faced orks and was able to surgically remove anything with a chance to kill my LR, i was then able to roll over everything that was left

Did your opponent not have many embedded PK Nobz? I can account for shooting out a few Dredz or Deff Rollaz, but surely a savvy Ork will bring along some blobs with an S9 charger hiding...

4 attacks hitting on 6+ glancing on a 5 pen on 6.

A savvy ork player, with nothing but single nobs in mobs of boyz as there ONLY anti-LR weapons, would be sweating. A not so savvy ork player...

Eh, not saying that it's an ideal situation to be facing off against a LR with only PK's to kill it, but it's better than nothing when the Rollaz and Dredz are all dedded.

The land raider usually won't do enough harm over the course of a game to justify putting the effort into killing it. If there is a chance to catch it with anything actually dangerous to it (read, S9+) kill it. The most dangerous variant is actually the one Jihallah mentioned(troops inside), just make sure to have something ready to beat it off that objective.
I don't really think "surgical removing" anything that can harm it from the opponents army works well against all lists, though Kan walls and other hordes have an obvious weakness to that.

Agreed, other then bragging rights or a good reason to stick some LR thing on an Ork boss, just ignore them. The only LRs that I can see actually doing damage to Orks is the redeemer and the crusader. The redeemer obviously makes it point, the crusader, it can do some damage to hordes with those hurricane bolters. But unless they are really hammering you (which again doesnt happen often) just ignore them. With the exception of the deff rolla, our only reliable ways to pop them is in CC and that can be tricky

lindsay40k wrote:

CrashCanuck wrote:U might want some way to kill it, I faced orks and was able to surgically remove anything with a chance to kill my LR, i was then able to roll over everything that was left

Did your opponent not have many embedded PK Nobz? I can account for shooting out a few Dredz or Deff Rollaz, but surely a savvy Ork will bring along some blobs with an S9 charger hiding...

They did, one tried to Death or Glory my Land Raider after he failed to charge it and the 2nd one I picked off with my Vindicare since I choose how the wounds are allocated from him.

PraetorDave wrote:

Heffling wrote: Any of the LR variants don't put out alot of hurt each turn from shooting, and I can generally soak up what output they do have.

I would have to disagree with you on this point. The Godhammer (vanilla) one doesn't have much, however both the other ones can put a lot of hurt on orks. The Crusader has six TL bolters, and a TL assault cannon. So at <12" he is throwing out 12 TL Str4 shots, and 4 TL Str6 shots. Thats gonna put some ouch on your boyz. The Redeemer has the TL assault cannon also, however it throws out Str6 templates. So if its close enough, it can template 2 separate boyz mobz. And seeing as they are very difficult to kill, that much firepower that close is not easily ignorable IMO.

Not really because each shot can have a chancetol be saved by a KFF or the cover of the kans.

CrashCanuck wrote:

lindsay40k wrote:

CrashCanuck wrote:U might want some way to kill it, I faced orks and was able to surgically remove anything with a chance to kill my LR, i was then able to roll over everything that was left

Did your opponent not have many embedded PK Nobz? I can account for shooting out a few Dredz or Deff Rollaz, but surely a savvy Ork will bring along some blobs with an S9 charger hiding...

They did, one tried to Death or Glory my Land Raider after he failed to charge it and the 2nd one I picked off with my Vindicare since I choose how the wounds are allocated from him.

Yeah, basic ork advice: Never death or glory with your nobz, unless it's definitively going to die by shooting this turn.

Psssh ya, dont EVER death or glory. Unless its the end of the game and you won many times over, OR its a last ditch effort.