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The rule states "If he deploys via deepstrike, Mordrak and ANY unit he accompanies will automatically arrive in your first turn and will not scatter."
My question is can you take literally any unit? Or is it only limited by deeptriking units?

He's not an Independent character. So, the only units that can go with him are either his retinue (ghosts or somesuch) or an IC that attaches to him.

I assume that in order for him to deepstrike, the unit he's going with has to be eligible to deepstrike as well.

Yep, as above.

Mordrak is not an IC, so the only unit that can join him is an IC. In order for someone to be able to deepstrike with him they must be able to deepstrike.

As stated Mordrak is not an IC, but is unique, and so because of this falls into a special group of characters that includes Mephiston. By himself he cannot join or be joined by any other units. This however all changes when he is joined by a unit of Ghost Knights. He becomes an upgrade character for that unit, and that unit may be joined by other IC's.

No, this is wrong. Mordrak does not "change". He is not a unit that always consists of one model, as he can be joined by ghost knights, even if you didn't buy any. Because of this the restriction for an IC not joining him is not in effect.

Jidmah wrote:No, this is wrong. Mordrak does not "change". He is not a unit that always consists of one model, as he can be joined by ghost knights, even if you didn't buy any. Because of this the restriction for an IC not joining him is not in effect.

He actually does become an upgrade character - his rules say so.

Which, rules wise, does nothing.

Jidmah wrote:No, this is wrong. Mordrak does not "change". He is not a unit that always consists of one model, as he can be joined by ghost knights, even if you didn't buy any. Because of this the restriction for an IC not joining him is not in effect.

* He is a unit named 'Grand Master Mordrak'
* He is a single model
* He is not an IC
* His rules specifically refer to him as a "single-model unit"

So, he cannot be joined by an IC when he is alone.

* He + Ghostknights are a unit named 'Mordrak and the Ghost Knights'
* He + Ghostknights are not a single model
* His rules specifically mention that he is an "upgrade character" for the unit (and thus he is a part of the unit rather than attached character)

So, he can be joined by an IC when he is with his Ghostknights

The term 'always' refers to the scope of one game. Did the model start the game with other models? Take, for example, a Guardian squad with a Warlock. If the Guardians all die, the warlock is a unit that consists of a single model, but his unit did not "always consist of a single model". Mordrak, however, did not start with other models. So, he did "always consist of a single model".

Xarian wrote:The term 'always' refers to the scope of one game. Did the model start the game with other models? Take, for example, a Guardian squad with a Warlock. If the Guardians all die, the warlock is a unit that consists of a single model, but his unit did not "always consist of a single model". Mordrak, however, did not start with other models. So, he did "always consist of a single model".

Everything right so far but, two things. "Did the model start the game with other models?" is the wrong question to ask. Let's stay in the GK codex and take paladins. Paladins can be bought as 1-10 units, if I buy a single paladin, he can still be joined by ICs, because his unit can consist of more than one model, by buying more before the beginning of the game. "Always" is not defined as "scope of one game", so it simply means always as in "scope of any possible game".
Even if you do not start with any Ghost Knights, Grand Master Mordrak might get additional ghost knights when wounded, and thus does not always consist of a single model.

I'd also like to add that he has the "act as upgrade character" clause, simply because the only other characters able to be part of a units are Independent Characters. So all this does is "Mordrak is not an independant character" with all attached rules baggage (can't leave, can't be singled out etc.).

Mordrak is a single model unit when not accompanied by Ghost Knights. A small quote from the Ghostly Bodyguard entry proves this. The last sentence of the first paragragh on pg40 of the Grey knights codex under "Ghostly Bodyguard" states:

"Mordrak and the Ghost Knights form a unit, with Mordrak acting as an upgrade character until such point as the Ghost Knights are slain, at which point he reverts to being a single-model unit in his own right."

You cannot revert to, or return to, being something unless you were one to begin with.

So? Nothing prevents ICs from joining a single-model-unit.

Except the rule where it says:

They cannot, however, join vehicle squadrons (see the Vehicles section) and units that always consist of a single model (like most vehicles and monstrous creatures).

so it seems pretty clear that an IC can join his unit, can / does that IC gain the alpha strike as well?

I do apologize it does seem to be answered here and within the codex, where it was stated any unit he joins. but I'd like to make sure.

bushido wrote:Except the rule where it says:

They cannot, however, join vehicle squadrons (see the Vehicles section) and units that always consist of a single model (like most vehicles and monstrous creatures).

That doesn't even prohibit ICs from joining single-model units...

bushido wrote:Except the rule where it says:

They cannot, however, join vehicle squadrons (see the Vehicles section) and units that always consist of a single model (like most vehicles and monstrous creatures).

Sorry to quote ninja you The important part is "always". As Mordraks unit does not always consist of a single model, he may be joined by ICs, even when alone. Mephisto's or Kastellan Crowe's units, for example, can never, ever be more than a single model.

The ghosts act as body guard and are hence a single unit. So from what im seeing here is that he and his body guard, as well as only if optioned, a single IC can join?

By RAW, an Independent Character can join Mordrak, even if he is by himself. Also, RAW, any Independent character that joins with Mordrak before deployment automatically deepstrikes with him on the first turn, even if normally they would not be able to deepstrike. Althouh, the only IC without deepstrike are pretty much limited to Inquisitors without terminator armor.

so its not limited by DS then?

cuda: There's nothing in there to indicate that he grants a unit he's with the ability to deep strike. It looks like it's just: if he's with a unit, and they deploy via deep strike, then his special rules apply. In order to deploy via deep strike, the unit has to have that ability in the first place.

Until this gets FAQed, no, it is NOT limited to characters with deepstrike. Totally strange and I overlooked that myself. His special rules are more specific than the general rules for deepstrike, and in fact override those in the rulebook. However, I don't see many people attaching an Inquisitor to Mordrak, so this shouldn't come up too often.

cuda1179 wrote:By RAW, an Independent Character can join Mordrak, even if he is by himself. Also, RAW, any Independent character that joins with Mordrak before deployment automatically deepstrikes with him on the first turn, even if normally they would not be able to deepstrike. Althouh, the only IC without deepstrike are pretty much limited to Inquisitors without terminator armor.

As well as Techmarines.

However, you're wrong that non-DS can be deployed via DS.

"If he deploys via Deep Strike, Mordrak and any unit he accompanies will automatically arrive in your first turn and will not scatter."

In order for you to use FttF, you have to deploy via DS. In order to do that, the entire unit has to be able to DS. "Deploy[s] via Deep Strike" is a condition that must be satisfied, not an effect that occurs.

As for lone Mordrak with an IC, the question is if "Mordrak" and "Mordrak + Ghostly Bodyguard" are two different units, or the same unit with different models.

I also think there is a question about gaining Ghost Knights if you didn't take them in the first place, based on the wording, but there are so many other problems with the codex wording that I'm not surprised.

Whoops!!! I just re-read his special rules. I was totally wrong, and I appologise. I thought it stated that he MUST deepstrike the first turn, not "if he chooses to deepstrike".

A Mallus Ordus Inquisitor with Terminator Armor could still be attached

A little off topic:

If you were to place Mordrak the GK and another IC inside of a Storm Raven, would the Storm Raven also get Alpha Strike? Since its a Transport?

there doesn't seem to be any red flgs running in my head.

Only Dedicated transport(Rhinos, razorbacks, or Chimeras in the GK codex) ever gain any unit special rules, and that is only Scouts, or Infiltrate(infiltrate only allows for outflanking).

Mordak+Knights+ICs in the Storm raven(up to transport limits of the Storm Raven) can still Deepstrike(because the Storm Raven has that rule), but cannot benefit from FttF.

errr alright

Thank You!

So if Mordrek was joined by an IC and put in a Stormraven with an embarked Dreadnought....Could they use the FTTF if they deepstrike?

f74 wrote:So if Mordrek was joined by an IC and put in a Stormraven with an embarked Dreadnought....Could they use the FTTF if they deepstrike?

Read the post two posts above yours.


The answer's "no".