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A bit confusing at first, since these engagements seem to be real battles but...
Spoiler:
1st blood:
- ultramarines vs death guard.
2nd blood:
- ultramarines vs world eaters
3rd blood:
- ultramarines vs Salamanders ok, a WTF moment. Why would they attack the loyalists? 4th Blood:
- ultramarines vs sons of horus.
Finally after "victories" , the last engagement sees Ultramar falling before the might of Horus Lupercal personally leading his sons to the gates of Macragges fortresses. Until Gulliman reveals himself and it is all a simulation...
Some new bits of fluff can be found in this story, the Terminator suits and T-hawks confirmed as new additions to the SM armoury and
Spoiler:
Codex Astartes was begun in the heresy era, surely after Calth. To quote:
Its spine was a metre long and thick enough to enclose a book fully thirty centimetres deep.. This size should keep even the fastest reader busy for a while...
A heresy and galaxy wide war isn't keeping his attention, but a tome to be written is?
Taken to account what the engagements were, this could be a test and the personal view of the leading UM captain is just his fail to
accept anything beyond the dogma he is meant to learn, but certainly the disregard for the T-Hawk design shows the flaws of a
"our way is the only way" approach. Especially the sentiment here:
Spoiler:
Too feral, too cultish to be imperial.It had the look of a savage culture raised up to civilisation,but which would never really be civilized.
Salamanders.
Even the name sounded barbarous.
..
the name had no gravitas, and Remus shook his head at its primitive, visceral nature.
The disregard for them goes on, without considering them as part of one side or the other. Still this was after isstvan, so it should been
known who pledged to which cause. Weird. Once the UM were considered loyalists. This however looks like they kept out of it and
followed their own plans.
To further the effect of the teachings of Gulliman:
Spoiler:
The idea that Roboute Gulliman could be wrong about anything was beyond ridiculous.
And its written in stone.....
Until the last pages of the story.
In the middle of the story, Mcneill spills the beans a bit, when worlds are lost in ways they could never exist in M41 but do. Maybe thats meant to be the hint at the possible outcome of the story.
The end of the story is near and IMHO provides a insight that may shatter the view on the codex of some M41 UM characters if only they would know. In the UM Primarchs own words:
Spoiler:
'but your teachings'
'Are yet flawed', said Gulliman. 'No one,not even one such as I, can anticipate every possible outcome of battle. My words are not some holy writ that must be obeyed. There must always be room for personal initiative on the battlefield. You and I both know how one spark of heroism can turn the tide of battle. That knowledge and personal experience can only be earned in blood, and the leader in the field must always be the ultimate arbiter of what course of action should be followed.'
Take this, codex lovers
Was a start, but I hope it gets better.
Target locked,ready to fire
In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.
H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
ARGH I've not got my copy yet (to Waterstones!!) but I'm really lookign forward to Little Horus...I loved his char and I think he was fairly troubled by Istvaan etc...hoping for some good back story there Not reading your filthy spoilers
@NiallCampbell: more filthy spoilers @ kizzdougs: One of these was the one I was warned of. We'll see who was right.
@ Pacific: I do trust ADB to provide something worth reading.
Moving to the next in line,
Liars due
A bit slow and located at a backwater planet it hasn't been easy to spot why it is the second story. Maybe The Editor kept the better parts further down this collection of storys.? Without surprise it involves the Alpha Legion.
But I doubt a certain MOD of dakka is pleased with this small piece of fluff as its just:
Spoiler:
1 operative, thus human and ONE nod to Alpharius but Horus all over the place.....
I'd call it a story of subterfuge. Or maybe a story of Humans and their fears.
But actually i'll hope this collection has better content to come.
IMO the only reference worthy of note:
Spoiler:
The title of the book was Insignium Astartes: the uniforms and regalia of the Space Marines, and itwas a real tome in the traditional sense of the word.
....
Leon took great care with it, as the binding was old and the pages uneven where the glue holding them in place had yellowed and gone in powder. He looked over age-dulled images of armoured warriors, captured by picters or rendered in artwork as they strode battlefields like mythic stormlords. He knew every word in the book by heart. The careworn pages showed details of Legion sigils,banners and insignia, basic facts on the nature of the legiones astartes and their battle doctrines.
...
Leons scribblings were crude in comparision to the illustrations of this book, but still he poured his full measure of intend into them.
....
They jostled for space with a collection of figurines, some stamped from metal and brightly painted, others formed from ...
Reminds of Publications and a hobby of toy-soldiers we may know....
Wouldn't want to have any of the first 2 storys on their own, seems they had to be part of a collection.
N°1 should be in codex ultramarines.. N°2 is "nice" but imo replacable without losing anything.
Target locked,ready to fire
In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.
H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
Did you note the name 'Mendacs', which is an anglicised version of the latin word, 'Mendax', which means 'Liar' (and is where we get the word mendacious from).
I thought this a good story, this sort of subject matter ( the affect of the schism on the generally ignorant greater populace) is ideally suited for this sort of book.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
I found it enjoyable. Not every story can be about galaxy changing events, I like the 'fillers' which pad out the rest of the universe and make it seem like more of a believable place.
Spoiler:
It's also very '40k' in a sense - you kept waiting for the kid to grab his dad's las rifle and shoot the heretic, foiling his plans at the last moment in dick dastardly fashion "The traitor fell to the ground, a look of frozen surprise etched onto his face" etc. But no, this is 40k, and he is left looking through a glass pane as the spy leaves as planned and prepares himself for his next assignment.
Enjoying the detailed review though 1hadhq, keep it up!
A ) No i didn't spot anything noteworthy of the name of the 'villain'. Seems I had "autotranslate to latin" off B ) Wouldn't pay for this as a separate story, but agreed it fits into a book like AoD.
C ) Why did those backwater people trust a stranger? Somebody who did nothing, this on a agri-world?
Maybe its me wanting the 60+ pages per story to be put to best use and possibly top notch. But I can live with a few "ok" ones if there are some good ones. Hadn't time for N.°3 yet.
Target locked,ready to fire
In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.
H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
I would suggest that you've missed out or glossed over soemthing from story one a bit as well.
Spoiler:
The Imperium Secundus point is of more note than the development of the Codex Astartes IMO
. Essentially the codex does work -- it wins all the wargames except one, it just can't deal with every eventuality or individuals like the Primarchs.
I think the real talking point of the story is much more whether or not Gulliman thought the current ( ie Primarus) Imperium was totally finished and to what extent therefore he was prepared to support it.
perhaps this goes someway towards explaining why there were so many Ultramarines left post HH, and perhaps Gulliman's plans were to remake the Imperium entirely in his own image.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Yes I think so too, definitely in the sense that they are breaking a lot of new ground with this one. There is a big 'grey area' in between Istvaan and the assault on Terra. We know about a few of the big battles (Calth and Signus Prime for example) but not a lot else.
Hence there being one quite large bombshell in this book, two if you combine the underlying sentiments of the first and last stories (which I believe reds8n is referring to in his previous post)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/04 13:50:37
Course it could be nothing, but it does have a certain delicious irony to it eh ?
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
The Imperium Secundus point is of more note than the development of the Codex Astartes IMO
. Essentially the codex does work -- it wins all the wargames except one, it just can't deal with every eventuality or individuals like the Primarchs.
I think the real talking point of the story is much more whether or not Gulliman thought the current ( ie Primarus) Imperium was totally finished and to what extent therefore he was prepared to support it.
perhaps this goes someway towards explaining why there were so many Ultramarines left post HH, and perhaps Gulliman's plans were to remake the Imperium entirely in his own image.
Spoiler:
What if there were so many Ultramarines because writing and testing codices was more important than saving the actual "primarus" Imperium? If thats your point, yes the story supports Gulimans codex being written after Calth but before the heresy fully
played out. Like:"However this war plays out,it is inevitable that you will fight warriors you count as brothers.Perhaps even those who
currently stand in opposition to the warmaster." Seems like an anticipated split in the loyalist forces. Maybe its the possible challenge of the second founding?
Pacific wrote:
Yes I think so too, definitely in the sense that they are breaking a lot of new ground with this one. There is a big 'grey area' in between Istvaan and the assault on Terra. We know about a few of the big battles (Calth and Signus Prime for example) but not a lot else.
Hence there being one quite large bombshell in this book, two if you combine the underlying sentiments of the first and last stories (which I believe reds8n is referring to in his previous post)
More than 1 bombshell - a barrage?
*runs for cover*
Got round to N°3.
Forgotten sons
A diplomatic mission, doesn't run smoothly....
Spoiler:
First, the warmasters envoy is a capable liar and snake, worming his POV into the thinking of the leaders of the Bastionites.
The 2 marines struggle to counter this. But there are more players in this game.
The loyalists: Arcadese and Heka'tan, Ultramarine with lots of bionics and Salamander with a traumata
The heretics: Vorkellen and his minions, and a Iron warrior who sabotages the planets energy cores.
The assassin: a xeno, hunted down commonly but this time attempting to kill the warmasters envoy.
Arcadese and Heka'tan are interesting characters, marines no longer fit for frontline duty from severe battle damage.
Sent to win the Bastionites to the loyalists cause. Their issues aren't helpful against Vorkellens sly tactics.
So the mission goes on and the marines have a hard time to counter the twisted truths of vorkellen.
But, then they get the chance to oppose the IW and the xeno on their "homeground", battle.
They come to late to stop the IW from riggin the energy cores and thus the planet is doomed.
Still manage to defeat the xeno and help a few humans to escape.
The story shows the marines who have no frontline dutys, those who live but won't serve as they were intended to.
Its nice, fills the hole between planned hostilities and optional peace. Whilst loyalists and traitors use both force and negotiation to claim
allegiance, this one has also the 3rd option: "official" talk and "unofficial" setting bombs...
Hints and links may not be there ( unitil I missed something, then point it out please ) but:
Spoiler:
Name : Bastion - > aren't BL having a "Bastion wars" series?
Brougth into compliance by IW. Destroyed by IW.
Data found hint on "war machine schematics, vast and terrible engines the likes he had never seen".
more pre AoS tech, hiddden and maybe lost?
Liked this story.
Target locked,ready to fire
In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.
H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
Yes I thought it wasn't bad. Good to see another new aspect of the Heresy brought to the attention of the reader, and the subject of worlds which were powerful and couldn't be brought under heel with brute force. It was also quite interesting to read again about the traitor forces not all reading from the same page.
My criticism of it, and this is something I write about whenever I get the opportunity, isn't anything to do with Nick Kyme's story, but more the background to it and what he had to work with. We are told about the considerable oratory skills of Horus' representative, but we are given precious little example of it. Why was this? Well you have to think, why did Horus actually turn away from the Emperor? We have had precious little information on it so far, False Gods (the book dealing with Horus' 'fall'), barely touches on the subject. Truth be told, if Nick Kyme was staying honest to the material of what we know about this issue from other books (and going on what happened to Horus - he got stabbed by a magic sword, then emerged from the Davinite temple with dark circles around his eyes) it would have been completely in line for him to write the traitor orator as saying, "I can make you more powerful than you can possibly imagine" to the assembled representatives.
I wrote about this issue on another forum and Aaron Dembski-Bowden agreed with it also. It's basically a great big pink elephant in the corner of the room, and for some reason no-one seems to be able to see it. The 'keystone' for the ultimate failure of the Great Crusade, the biggest war that will ever occur, the creation of the setting for the 40k universe and ultimately the reason for the doom of humanity, and it's reason? Well, Horus was stabbed by a cursed sword, and so is removed from any form of rational decision making process. So, your guess is as good as mine..
Anyway! I don't want to derail the thread or distract you from your review 1hadhq, please continue!
reds8n wrote:
Course it could be nothing, but it does have a certain delicious irony to it eh ?
It certainly does, what's perhaps even more surprising is that there doesn't seem to have been any 'outcry' about it yet. Remember the massive threads and declarations of fatwah following Gav Thorpe's Angels of Darkness? Barely a whisper about the revelations (admittedly not spelled out so clearly) in Age of Darkness. I won't say any more, as I don't want to ruin the story for 1hadhq!
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
We are told about the considerable oratory skills of Horus' representative, but we are given precious little example of it. Why was this?
Spoiler:
the IW was the real envoy and the iterator as the overconfident fool he was, was sent there to die.
First, the 2 marines seem a bad choice but then their "obvious" disadvantage and the fight still left in them turned the tables as the bastionites seem to pledge for Horus and get stopped by horus in doing so...or if this was Perturabos plan, Horus hadn't as much control over his minions as we thought. The traitors were down on their route to destroy, they may never be able to leave and the false belief in a "emporer in stead of the emperor" made Horus as viable as Isnogud, thus on the level of a comic figure....
Pacific wrote:
. The 'keystone' for the ultimate failure of the Great Crusade, the biggest war that will ever occur, the creation of the setting for the 40k universe and ultimately the reason for the doom of humanity, and it's reason? Well, Horus was stabbed by a cursed sword, and so is removed from any form of rational decision making process.
The keystone was Lorgars failure, and the infiltrating chaos agents inside the Legions.
Horus part in this was his way to drive on, needing more recruts and ultimately hampering QA....
Pacific wrote:
...what's perhaps even more surprising is that there doesn't seem to have been any 'outcry' about it yet. Remember the massive threads and declarations of fatwah following Gav Thorpe's Angels of Darkness? Barely a whisper about the revelations in Age of Darkness.
Is there something that should be considered fluff-heresy?
I appreciate you keep it from me yet.
Can't guarantee I don't start the thread which may generate an outcry, if only I get it. Must read very carefully.....
Target locked,ready to fire
In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.
H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
A story of memories? Hoped for revelations or at least a few interesting bits but it seemed it shouldn't be. Was there anything to miss?
Spoiler:
Personae:
- Rogal Dorn , Primarch
- Iacton qruze, clad in grey so my guess Grey knight?
- Solomon Voss, Remembrancer, the last active one.
Just 3 characters. Voss is the last one, since any other have either been disbanded and reassigned to support the war efforts with their hands ( loyalists ) or killed ( traitors ) except said Mr Voss. So 1 is left and taken by Horus to remember what he did, then sent to Terra.
After boarding, the lone passenger ( voss ) is dragged into a interogation cell on a former defensive platform.
Now this fortress houses a lot of Horus-followers and Voss fate would be like any of them, but Dorn and qruze are the ones to question him and I would expect this is because voss has something to say.
So he has, but what he says isn't earth shattering.
the future is dead
Oh cool. Why is it M42 yet? The imperial creed and the cause of the great crusade was lost at the begining of the heresy, and who would missed that ? When qruze was back at Terra, the civil war and its damage done wasn't a secret. The moment nearly half of the imperiums military might turned didn't hint at an easy return to the old ways or even at a possible return.
To be clear:
Spoiler:
"That the future is dead, Rogal Dorn. It is ashes running through your hands."
Dorn was on his feet before qruze could blink.
.....
(Dorn didn't kill voss yet, not even touch him)
......
"I have seen what your brother has become" said Voss, carefully measuring his words. "I have looked your enemy in the eye. I know what must happen."
'Horus will be defeated', spat Dorn.
"yes, yes perhaps he will, but I still speak the truth. It is not Horus that will destroy the future of the Imperium. It is you, Rogal Dorn. You and those that stand with you." Voss nodded to qruze.
Dorn leant down so that he was looking the man in the eye.
'We will rebuilt the Imperium when this war is done.'
"From what, Rogal Dorn? From what? " sneered Voss, and qruze saw the words hit Dorn like a blow.
"The weapons of this age of darkness are silence and secrets. The enlightenment of Imperial truth, those were the ideals you fought for. But you cannot trust anymore and without trust those ideals will die, old friend."
'Why do you say this?' hissed Dorn.
"I say it because I am a remembrancer. I reflect the truth of the times.The truth is not something this new age wants to hear".
'I do not fear the truth'.
"Then let my words," Voss tapped his parchment, "be heard by all. I have written it here, everything I saw, every dark and bloody moment."
Qruze thougth of the words of Solomon Voss spreading through the Imperium, carried by the authority of the author and the power of their message. It would be like poison spreading through the soul of those resisting Horus.
So the truth dies first in a war. Who had thougth this???? All I see there is a story depicting Dorn as ill-tempered and unaware of anything beyond military duties. Shall we really believe in a Primarch deluding himself to think it can be undone, unmade, what a galaxy spanning heresy did to the Imperium? Surely could there be hope, maybe even disbelief in the size of the heresy.
A fact of M41 is restricted access to information.
Considering this:
Spoiler:
"Then let my words," Voss tapped his parchment, "be heard by all.
....
In the end, Voss is slain and his writings burned.
Would it be wise to inform everyone?
Maybe, if the reason behind the actions of the participants in the Heresy would be all well thought out, nicely written by capable authors,
the universe of 40k could allow the "truth" to be told. But for now, not even the readers of the background who "know" more than the characters inside, are sure about the truth. So what should be told? The variant of Voss? A counter from another author ? Censor?
[i]So not much to be found. Currently 4 of 9 read. Somehow, losing faith in this book's chances to contain more than 1 good story..
But I will not falter. This has to be gone through, and if only to find what red and pacific hint on.
Must know.
Target locked,ready to fire
In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.
H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
I swear to God, that is exactly how I've felt the Lion should always be represented. As the Emperor's wetworks guy, while Russ was the equivalent to the executioner.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I should also add that "Angels of Darkness" has never really been considered a 'bad' book in terms of canon.
It's just people fail to understand that Thorpe purposely wrote it as a member of the Fallen telling the story as he witnessed it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/06 19:24:22
I could be wrong, but I get the distinct impression that the authors seem to be firmly in the "Loyalists are misguided and narrowminded/Traitors were wronged" camp to varying degrees. I am not an 'angster' so much of that doesn't appeal to me. I had thought the loyalists stayed loyal through hope and faith in the Emperor against terrible odds. It seems my view is a bit foggy atm.
Then again, we haven't seen much of the story from the point of view of the Loyalists yet. We still really don't know Guillimans viewpoint expressed at any length, or even the Emperors for that matter. Though I doubt they will attend to the latter.
By the way, thanks to 1hadhq for this thread, really informative and I appreciate the use of spoilers.
Thanks for the review 1hadhq, please keep them coming! (and there are some other real gems in this series, I promise you!)
I could be wrong, but I get the distinct impression that the authors seem to be firmly in the "Loyalists are misguided and narrowminded/Traitors were wronged" camp to varying degrees. I am not an 'angster' so much of that doesn't appeal to me. I had thought the loyalists stayed loyal through hope and faith in the Emperor against terrible odds. It seems my view is a bit foggy atm.
I agree with you in a sense, but I also think what they are doing here is adding to the depth and complexity of the Heresy, and the motivations behind it. If you think, before this we have had very little understanding of how and why the heresy took place. From less than a page on each Legion in the IA articles, to Collected Visions (which really only talks about the battles of the Heresy themselves) what we are seeing now is a 'padding out' of the Heresy. The Primarchs and the other actors within the story are appearing more in shades of grey, simply on account of them moving beyond their previous position of two-dimensional archetypes (i.e. either 'good' or 'evil') and being given real character.
But, while the accounts of the traitors have allowed us to understand and in some cases (Magnus for example) even empathize with why they made the decisions they made, that still doesn't change the ultimate fact - ultimately, they were wrong, and they sided with the nefarious forces out to destroy humanity and the Imperium. It is making the story that much more powerful because of it - all the potential within the characters that is wasted, all that was great and is ultimately brought low, it is all very emotionally charged. In a way the authors have got a very difficult task in making these events suitably 'epic' (and I mean that in the proper sense of the word, not the internet meme sense) - these are the events that define the 40k universe that we know and love - while at the same time making the characters believable. Like I said in my other post I think they have got it right for the most part, but for the biggest of them all (Horus).
Is there something that should be considered fluff-heresy?
Personally, I don't think so. I think ADB is a remarkable author, and one of his biggest strengths is the way he concentrates on building up characters. Through 'The Last Heretic' as well as McNeil's short story, we are starting to get more of a picture of Gulliman. I'm not going to give anything away, suffice to say I didn't get any feeling that what happens is at odds with what we know about the Ultramarine Primarch. If anything, it fits together seamlessly.
Perhaps that's why we haven't had an 'Angel of Darkness moment' (either that, or enough people haven't read about it yet!) Or it could be that the hardcore UM fans are a bit more chilled out than DA players!
Pacific wrote: ...I didn't get any feeling that what happens is at odds with what we know about the Ultramarine Primarch.
I feel like I read a different book to you.
Big Spoiler from 'Rules of Engagement'
Spoiler:
Guilliman calls his book Imperium Secundus. The Emperor still breathes, but Guilliman has written the Imperium off and is planning to establish its successor. More importantly he has written off the Emperor and plans to be his successor. While his loyalist brothers fight to defend Terra he is making himself comfortable within his own realm and preparing to make war against traitor and loyalist alike. He is a vile traitor, little better than Horus. Worse still, as far as we know he doesn't even have the excuse of having been hit with a magic sword. It's safe to assume that the Ultramarine primarch will in some way redeem himself before the heresy is through (or at least will be seen to have done, given his poster boy image in later history), but that doesn't change the fact the he spat on his oath to the Emperor when it mattered the most. This is dynamite stuff. The writers have shown real guts doing this. Can you imagine the trying to sell this to the brass at GW? "So yeah, we want to make the Ultramarines traitors..."
I think this is rather strikingly at odds with what we knew about Guilliman previously. He's gone from 'the boring one' to 'the other, lesser known heretic'.
I share the feeling that the implications of the first few pages of this book don't seem to have sunk in...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/07 13:24:26
I swear to God, that is exactly how I've felt the Lion should always be represented. As the Emperor's wetworks guy, while Russ was the equivalent to the executioner.
.
Good, the story in the lead in the poll provides a reason to buy this collection I assume?
Now, hints are the 1st and the last are the interesting ones. Still on the move to get there..
Uhlan wrote:I could be wrong, but I get the distinct impression that the authors seem to be firmly in the "Loyalists are misguided and narrowminded/Traitors were wronged" camp to varying degrees.
Then again, we haven't seen much of the story from the point of view of the Loyalists yet. We still really don't know Guillimans viewpoint expressed at any length, or even the Emperors for that matter. Though I doubt they will attend to the latter.
Yes, it is a bad sign of things to come if the first page in a collection moves the timeline up to the "age of darkness = after isstvan" if
you like to hear about as many of the Primarchs/Legions as possible. Is there a chance to show them all?
The series had a great start. Somehow the storyline seems to hop from in/famous events to spotlights at organizations/Legions and back to shortstories. I'd like to see the Legions and the wellknown characters covered. But after Isstvan, allegiance is clear and some Legions
aren't as active as they could have been before.
It was: "the horus heresy a time of legend" , in AgeofDarkness its " the age of knowledge and enlightenment has ended...".
So we just moved from 200+ years of GC to 7? years of war? Hopefully just a subtitle of the collection and not the course of the series.
Temujin wrote:
Big Spoiler from 'Rules of Engagement'
Spoiler:
Guilliman calls his book Imperium Secundus. The Emperor still breathes, but Guilliman has written the Imperium off and is planning to establish its successor. More importantly he has written off the Emperor and plans to be his successor. While his loyalist brothers fight to defend Terra he is making himself comfortable within his own realm and preparing to make war against traitor and loyalist alike. He is a vile traitor, little better than Horus. Worse still, as far as we know he doesn't even have the excuse of having been hit with a magic sword. It's safe to assume that the Ultramarine primarch will in some way redeem himself before the heresy is through (or at least will be seen to have done, given his poster boy image in later history), but that doesn't change the fact the he spat on his oath to the Emperor when it mattered the most. This is dynamite stuff. The writers have shown real guts doing this. Can you imagine the trying to sell this to the brass at GW? "So yeah, we want to make the Ultramarines traitors..."
I think this is rather strikingly at odds with what we knew about Guilliman previously. He's gone from 'the boring one' to 'the other, lesser known heretic'.
Good point. Without too much existing background of pre-heresy UM in the way, I feel it was the chance to take a new direction with them.
Spoiler:
Absence of the UM at the battles and few casualties would perfectly fit with this.
How can UM fanboy N°1 live with this? I mean, the thought of every marine aspiring to be an UM and such dribble and yet we have the
possibilty of the UM sitting at home and doing QA of a codex and their Primarch scheming on a Imperium replacement of his own design.
Can't say its a problem for me to declare them excommunicate traitoris. The 13th legion.....that alone seemed more of a possible turncoat
candidate. But maybe the "additional recruts" of the lost legions got them moving as they may find another failure to serve inacceptable?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Next in line:
Rebirth:
Reborn?
Another hint on the heritage of one well-covered chapter of Space Marines.....
Spoiler:
A thousand Son, sent away and not at Prospero when it burned.
A captain, a athanean, a reader of minds and moods. His squad of 9 and a return to their home-world.
Hes bound, but it soon blends back to when the T-sons approach their former home.
As prisoner he thinks his captor is a Space wolf, lots of features seem to make him think of a feral creature, a dog.
The Squad is ambushed, but its not Space wolves.
When memory returns, the captive realizes its the World Eaters.
Lead by none other than Kharn himself.
Its nicely written and the change from T-sons vs SW to the real opponents is believable.
What seemed to be loyalists to hunt any returning T-son are:
Spoiler:
World eaters sent to regain an artifact Magnus used to contact Horus. Horus trying to shut off chances to contact him sounds a bit like he feared what his father could do with such a thing....
The intersting bit in the middle part of the story is Kharn.
The T-son was as overconfident of his abilities as it gets, but Kharn was also as violent as he is known as a champion of khorne.
Kharn was a War hound, but they added this "improvement" of rage inducing implants and his sanity was nearly lost.
Seems it was the last time of the old, calm Kharn as he finally dropped it in killing the T-son. Teased until he broke....
Kharn had a mission, perhaps, but the truth is he sought a way to cure his mind. The t-son offered it.
Before we hear a few last words of the old Kharn:
'They came for you because they believed you had turned. We come for you because we know that you didnt. Not truly, not reliably.
Our cause demands commitment.'
"So you never did believe in Unification?"
Kharn grimaces.
'We believed in it completly', he growls and the raw emotion rises to just below the surface. 'None believed in it more than we did.'
'None laid their bodies on the line to that extent that we did.'
He comes closer.His ceyes stare at me, glistening in the bright light.
'We are fighters,' he says. 'we are made in the image of our Primarch just as you are made in the image of yours, and he has been betrayed and cast aside, even as the rule of the galaxy passes from the warriors to the slavemasters'.
...
Like a prophet trapped in his own visions, Kharn is locked in a world of unreliable memories and paranoia. The damage done to his mind is heartbreaking.
Insanity had Kharn and he fell for the same narrow sight of master and slave his primarch had grown up with. Surely it was a twisted POV,
and so close Horus held Angron its obvious who was the snake that changed the truth to his own ends.
But is this a story of 2 captains?
Not if you see this seargent.
He moves and fights and escapes.
Spoiler:
'Knowledge is power' he breathed.
We know this line...
As he went, the dim red light of the magma fire caught on his shoulder guard, exposing the serpentine star set about the black raven head of his cult-discipline. Then he was gone, shadow amongst shadows.
Yes I think a decision was made at GW.
The name and the cult isn't an accident.
SGT Arvida of the Corvidae..
Blood Ravens anyone?
One of the better stories as it tells us about known characters and reveals a few bits.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/07 15:10:58
Target locked,ready to fire
In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.
H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
It all starts fine with a patrol at Isstan VI. Right 6 not 4 or 3.
A fleet of World eaters unhappily serves as patrol, while their Lord and Master runs amok on the surface of Istvaan V.
Denied of close combat, they hunt any sign of remaining loyalist ships.
Spoiler:
The space battle is a small fleet of a WE battlebarge and escorts hunting a sallie strike cruiser.
2 World Eaters and an alpha legionaire act as main characters.
The WE manage to damage the fleeing strike cruiser and intend to end it, but Angron calls his sons to join his assault on the Raven Guard.
Enjoyment is pretty fast changed into anger as the emissary of the Warmaster, said Alpha, keeps them in space patrol duties by orders
of Horus , signed by Angron..
So the setup is a really angry WE, who isnt allowed to face his opponents and even kept from joining his Legion on the chase after the Raven Guard. He still believes he can deal with the emissary as he trusts his WE companion...
Its a fine start, a space battle and some WE angry enough to destroy their own ships installations in their rage if there is nobody else to kick around. Thats the part of the story that I may consider deserving to be in this book.
The second group in this is the Raven Guard fleet, coming from Deliverance and already established in Ravens Flight.
A RG detachment and Imperial army inbound to look for the fate of Corax and his Legion.
Spoiler:
Battlebarge and imperial naval assets, something combined that will become the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy later.
Still in this era not separated.
They run covered by reflex shields, thus undetected. The traitors only spot them when the shields are off, which is neccessary to switch to because of energy consumption.
Sadly the Imperial officer was written as madmen, the RG space marine as calm. IDK what Mr Thorpe
wanted to achieve there, since the SM was hard to convince to move there and may fit in characterization with his first appearance, but the Imperial officer went from dedicated to insane. Visions may ruin a mind, but one that got a marine to change his and get him to move a whole fleet?
Got the impression it is a uncreative way to a end storyline, that may have been ended in the audio book already.
So half of the story transports not much, except to get the RG into it.
Spoiler:
When the RG shows its colors to bait the WE away from their designated target, the extraction of the Raven Guard, the WE Lt Cmdr Delerax tries to ignore his orders and intercept the RG fleet. His brother Korassis seems to agree.
It begins:
Legion command hails the WE battlebarge.
Angron speaks:
"The treacherous sons of Corax continue to elude that lumbering engineer, Perturabo. The Warmaster has seen fit to give me free hand at the hunt and I will bring down the scum of Deliverance within Days. All ships are to return to orbit to conduct the search. To me! my savage Hounds! We shall let loose our fury upon the Raven Guard and wipe them from History. Obey with immediate effect."
Here Delerax decided to slay the Salamander first, and to obey later.
The remnants of the space battles at Isstvan 5+6, about a hundred vessels, told the RG fleet of the size of treachery.
Taking their time to scan communications, collected data gave a first incomplete image of the events.
Received comm:
" ..nd then, we shall crush the misguided sons of Corax completely.They think they can evade us forever? They are wrong! I will hunt down Corax and break him myself. The Raven Guard have nowhere left to run. In two Days our victory will be complete and the last survivors will be crushed by the World Eaters. Blood demands victory,and we shall let it flow!"
That can only be Angron.....
Course was set to extract the Raven Guard right under the nose of the angry primarch.
On the "infiltrating" run, they found the patrol and split their fleet to draw the WE patrol away.
Whilst Delerax is raging on the insult he deemed the warmasters orders to stay in space, he reassured himself that Kordassis is with him.
Envisioning what he will inflict on the RG, the traitors order the WE fleet to engage the incoming Loaylist fleet.
The emissary of the warmaster reminds Delerax of his duties and his place. The patrol moves to engage and opens a gap to let the RG slip through. No asset is in place to stop the fleet anymore, no ship nor ground defense. The RG takes that chance and moves in.
Delerax raged at the extraction fleet beeing unopposed and orders to turn to intercept.
Entering the bridge, Delerax met Kordassis. The alpha legionaire insists on the fleets original course to oppose the "bait" and pulls rank:
"Your orders have not changed Lt Cmdr. If you persist in this disobedience I will remove you from command".
"Not listening to your reminder?" asked Kordassis.
"What can he do to stop me?? repiled Delerax.
So the battlebarge alters its course to intercept the extraction fleet, ignoring the emissary.
The RG still busy with extraction, has more of Angrons "speeches" on their comms:
"..ng away! Fall upon them my World Eaters, do not let them escape!" A bestial rage filled howl rang through the bridge.
" Corax! I know you can hear me! Come back and fight like a Space Marine,you coward! I have promised your blood to my blade and your head to the warmaster, and I shall deliver both. Face me you dishonorable bastard!" Angrons voice devolved into snarls and wordless pants.
See how angry angron is?
Raging WE and RG on the leave. We know who stays alive in current background and then comes the "idea" of this story and all seems weird. Maybe its meant to add to the heresy, but as 3 legions left I am sure it cannot be explained to be 3 times this way.
The last part of the story deals with the title of the story.
Now Delerax moves into position to blast away at the RG fleet but:
Spoiler:
'Cease your attack, Lt Cmdr.' The order came in a calm, clipped tone.
....
' I speak with the authority of the warmaster. Cease your attack immediatly.'
"That authority counts for nothing here". said Delerax."If you want your orders to be obeyed, return to the alpha legion where you belong".
'It has been decided that Corax still has a part to play'
"decided by you?" Delerax question was harsh with scorn. "who are you to make such decision?"
'I am Alpharius' said the legionaire.
"Remove yourself from my bridge or I will have your corpse removed". Delerax glimpsed Kordassis to his left, pulling a bolt pistol from his holster. The World eater smiled at theAlpha legionaire. His smile faded as he felt the cold touch of a muzzle against his cheek.
"what are you doing Kordassis?"
'I am not Kordassis' said the space marine, 'I am alpharius'.
Half his head blasted apart, Delerax last question is "Why?"
'In times such as these, even the most trusted face can conceal an enemy.'
So finally the World Eaters were stopped from attacking corax, by the
Spoiler:
alpha legion.
To what end?
- Horus and Corax weren't Best friends and Corax pulled his legion off of Horus influence. No reason to keep Corax around.
- Alpharius was there ? Both of him? To keep Corax around? Seems to me odd.
The RG returns to Deliverance and Corax heads for Terra.
The traitors are left behind at isstvan.
This could have been not so bad, looking at the space battles and the depiction of the loss of control of the world eaters.
Now, an author with a reputation for generating 'nerdrage' added the AL where the AL wasn't needed as the intercepting force was his work. Could we please have a story true to its title without multiple alphariusses on the last page next time?
Target locked,ready to fire
In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.
H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
- Horus and Corax weren't Best friends and Corax pulled his legion off of Horus influence. No reason to keep Corax around.
- Alpharius was there ? Both of him? To keep Corax around? Seems to me odd.
The RG returns to Deliverance and Corax heads for Terra.
The traitors are left behind at isstvan.
This could have been not so bad, looking at the space battles and the depiction of the loss of control of the world eaters.
Now, an author with a reputation for generating 'nerdrage' added the AL where the AL wasn't needed as the intercepting force was his work. Could we please have a story true to its title without multiple alphariusses on the last page next time?
No, there is a reason to keep Coraz around, we just aren't told what it is.
..... yet !
Spoiler:
One might hazard a guess that this is perhaps related to some of the experiments he tries at a later date ?
This will be addressed in his HH novel.
seeing as it's the Alpha legion involved perhaps it's part of Alhparius' plan to ensure the destruction of the Imperium ?
As to the Alpharius thing...
.. ermm...
Spoiler:
That's their standard line. They all claim to be Alpharius. So you never know if it really is him. It also represents the whole many heads/but one body idea exemplified in both their name and methodology.
I can't help but again echo some of the early ideas, that a lot of people have really missed the point of some of these stories.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
No, there is a reason to keep Corax around, we just aren't told what it is.
..... yet !
Spoiler:
One might hazard a guess that this is perhaps related to some of the experiments he tries at a later date ?
Spoiler:
No. these events aren't beneficial for either Horus or Alpharius. Until one rewrites them, but fluff you can find in codices isn't likely to be changed. Corax didn't leave alone, and none of the survivors is a good thing for horus plans. Horus actively seeked to destroy all of the loyalists in the turning legions of his "vassals". It makes no sense to keep those generally loyal around. He also sent Angron to deal with the RG and gave him free hand in this. Doesn't support the idea of Horus beeing the real source for that. Maybe it was the AL and they
were split into factions, after the cabal told them their twisted view on the future. Not unlikely to keep all options available.....
reds8n wrote:
This will be addressed in his HH novel.
Is this a hint on the theme of this "Deliverance lost" book?
Spoiler:
seeing as it's the Alpha legion involved perhaps it's part of Alpharius' plan to ensure the destruction of the Imperium ?
No.
Spoiler:
Alpharius plan is to help Horus. Thus the AL intercepted the SW and DA on their way to terra. Thus the AL undermined imperial authority where the warmaster cannot be present. Thus the AL attacked the UM. None of this destroys the imperium.
It just moves the scales in the warmasters favor, but ultimetaley its possible it was also the AL that brought Horus ship to low orbit and dropped the shields...
reds8n wrote:
I can't help but again echo some of the early ideas, that a lot of people have really missed the point of some of these stories.
A lot of people?
Not many did voice their thougths here.
Spoiler:
The point of some stories is often like the theme of modern art: it has to be explained, or better said retrofitted with nice words to add
meaning where none was.
OTOH I am maybe blind to the delicately hidden points in such high literature as a HH collection is. Maybe the efforts of the authors were wasted with such readers as I...
/
Yes I discarded the "imperium secundus bit " too fast. But thankfully this is Dakka and you may rely upon more eyes to spot the interesting bits.
Target locked,ready to fire
In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.
H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
Alparius/the Al goal is to ensure that Horus triumphs as this then leads to infighting and civil war amongst those who sided with him, which kills them ( and the rest of humanity) all.
So, not only are they trying to rig the fight so Horus wins, but they also have to delay this long enough for any plans and schemes of Alpharius' to come to fruition, and ensure that the forces that re left are small enough that there infigting and destruction will be as contained as possible.
We know that Croax resorts to .... dubious......... means to try and save his legion after wards. And this has dire consequences. What we don't know is exactly how close this came to destroying what was left of them altogether... and what, if any deals or agreements Croax made when doing this.
It's far more advantageous for Horus and Co., for example, if they can also "turn" or corrupt Corax rather than just killing him.
It would also, one assumes, prevent the loss of a lot of World Eater lives. And of course we don't know what effect this decision has on Angron and Co. either :
Maybe this is what finally pushed them unto the path of uncontrollable madness and murder ? Or perjaps this dealys that -- a more controllable and tactically useful Angron and legion is of far more strategic value possibly to Horus.
Saying that Coraz escaping doesn't help at all rules out far too many possibilities altogether.
Hell, putting it crudely, it's quite possible that there's an AL infiltrator who has come on board the ship with the escaping marines, who will detonate a bomb when they're in the warp, killing Corax, all the escapees and those who came to rescue them for very little loss.
I don't think that's their plan -- and of course we know if it was it didn't work, but I really don't see how one can just blithely dismiss the tale if one doesn't consider the options it presents.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Alparius/the Al goal is to ensure that Horus triumphs as this then leads to infighting and civil war amongst those who sided with him, which kills them ( and the rest of humanity) all.
So, not only are they trying to rig the fight so Horus wins, but they also have to delay this long enough for any plans and schemes of Alpharius' to come to fruition, and ensure that the forces that re left are small enough that there infigting and destruction will be as contained as possible.
We know that Croax resorts to .... dubious......... means to try and save his legion after wards. And this has dire consequences. What we don't know is exactly how close this came to destroying what was left of them altogether... and what, if any deals or agreements Croax made when doing this.
It's far more advantageous for Horus and Co., for example, if they can also "turn" or corrupt Corax rather than just killing him.
It would also, one assumes, prevent the loss of a lot of World Eater lives. And of course we don't know what effect this decision has on Angron and Co. either :
Maybe this is what finally pushed them unto the path of uncontrollable madness and murder ? Or perjaps this dealys that -- a more controllable and tactically useful Angron and legion is of far more strategic value possibly to Horus.
Saying that Coraz escaping doesn't help at all rules out far too many possibilities altogether.
Hell, putting it crudely, it's quite possible that there's an AL infiltrator who has come on board the ship with the escaping marines, who will detonate a bomb when they're in the warp, killing Corax, all the escapees and those who came to rescue them for very little loss.
I don't think that's their plan -- and of course we know if it was it didn't work, but I really don't see how one can just blithely dismiss the tale if one doesn't consider the options it presents.
Not?
1) either your keyboard sabotages your typing like mine does, excuse of a machine spirit inside, or you really misspell Corax on intend. Rest assured your "new spelling of corax" made me think of an ancient frog on a throne in whfb...
2) Surely the second founding saw enough RG marines to have them split. Others had not enough left to do so. The story of Corax rebuilding his Legion is already told, so G.T. will have to change it or what you see as possibility is none.
3) the WE were already on the edge,
Spoiler:
first red paintjobs spotted, the "messages of Angron" I quoted, Kharns behaviour in one of the storys. Its there. Sanity was lost. Tactics too. The path of the traitors was set on their own demise as coherent disciplined force.
4) I am not dismissing the AL part, I don't see a reason to have them there yet, but still an AL siding with 3 factions, loyalists, traitors, and ultimately themselves would allow for a nice read, where even Alpharius himself cannot be sure if He or the marine besides him is the real alpharius... and a certain MOD here would like it too, so I am all for this
Target locked,ready to fire
In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.
H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
Not reading your filthy spoilers 
excuse of a machine spirit inside, or you really misspell Corax on intend. Rest assured your "new spelling of corax" made me think of an ancient frog on a throne in