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So in a game tonight something was brought up that I didnt feel like looking up until now. Im fairly certain I was right but figured Id get the opinions of DAKKA on it. I was Necrons vs SM. I had a Lord with VoD with a unit of Immortals. Now I did my deepstrike and scattered close enough to be assault by a unit of terminators. Not a huge deal, as the SOL is a power weapon and the Lord would go first. Problem was the SM player said that since the Lord is an IC, and since I had just deepstriked (so as the DS rules, the Immortals were surrounding the Lord) the Lord was NOT in base to base contact and therefore couldnt attack or be attacked in CC. I was a bit annoyed, expecting to be able to down 1 or more terminators, but we just moved on to keep the game flowing.

So who was right? I looked up the IC rules and it says that unit that is joined by an IC assaults, the character assaults too as he is part of the unit. Not to mention under who can attack, he is well within range of another in his unit that is in base to base contact. So should he of been able to attack? Or am I missing something

An IC has to be in btb contact to be able to fight in a hth, unless he is with a retinue.

Course, once the termies charge you, you are required to perform a charge reaction and the IC is required to get into btb if at all possible. So bottom line, you should have used the charge reaction to get the Lord into btb, but if he cannot do so, he cannot fight in the hth.

ICs must be in base contact to swing.

On the flip side, the rulebook FAQ has clarified that during the "Defenders React" phase, ICs must move into base contact first, and will push other models out of the way to get there.

To follow up this question then. I heard some players, who get the charge, will purposely keep their ICs out of BTB to keep that character out of combat. (Like for keeping a sanguinary priest alive.)

But I've been told by people that when making the charge I have to move my IC's into combat first.

Dashofpepper wrote:ICs must be in base contact to swing.

On the flip side, the rulebook FAQ has clarified that during the "Defenders React" phase, ICs must move into base contact first, and will push other models out of the way to get there.

And of course IC's will "push other models out of the way to get there." But they still will not move through a space that the base of said IC can not physically fit through.

OP if the assault move brought all Immortals into base contact the IC would be stuck out of CC, until 1 or more Immortals or attackers were dead and the IC could perform a legal Pile-in move.


@Shovan, it is possible when assaulting, or defender reacting to keep an IC out of combat, but the IC rules make it very difficult to actually pull this off.

I'm probably missing something.

pg. 49 only tells you to move the IC first when reacting to being assaulted or making pile in moves. (And the FAQ says to move other models first if required to get the the IC into btb.) So when assaulting wouldn't you just follow the normal rules for assaulting, which would make it much easier to keep an IC out of combat?

It doesn't say the IC pushes models out of the way it says they move out of their way. It could be possible if you deep stuck a small unit of immortals with the Lord in the middle and got completely surrounded you couldn't move model out of the way. But ONLY if your were completely surrounded.

Ok, so we were both kindda wrong then? The unit wasnt surrounded, it was just 5 terminators covering about half the unit. Ill have to check the FAQ then so I can read it.

What GW is trying to tell us with their rules and FAQ is, unless absolutely impossible for enough models to get out of the way, your IC has to get in btb, even if the other models end up in sub-optimal positions.

KingCracker wrote:So in a game tonight something was brought up that I didnt feel like looking up until now. Im fairly certain I was right but figured Id get the opinions of DAKKA on it. I was Necrons vs SM. I had a Lord with VoD with a unit of Immortals. Now I did my deepstrike and scattered close enough to be assault by a unit of terminators. Not a huge deal, as the SOL is a power weapon and the Lord would go first. Problem was the SM player said that since the Lord is an IC, and since I had just deepstriked (so as the DS rules, the Immortals were surrounding the Lord) the Lord was NOT in base to base contact and therefore couldnt attack or be attacked in CC. I was a bit annoyed, expecting to be able to down 1 or more terminators, but we just moved on to keep the game flowing.

So who was right? I looked up the IC rules and it says that unit that is joined by an IC assaults, the character assaults too as he is part of the unit. Not to mention under who can attack, he is well within range of another in his unit that is in base to base contact. So should he of been able to attack? Or am I missing something

The independent character is treated as a separate unit while attacks are made in close combat, so he has to be in base contact with an enemy in order to attack them (or be attacked). See p49 under "Independent Characters & Assaults" for more details.

Shovan wrote:To follow up this question then. I heard some players, who get the charge, will purposely keep their ICs out of BTB to keep that character out of combat. (Like for keeping a sanguinary priest alive.)

But I've been told by people that when making the charge I have to move my IC's into combat first.

When launching an assault, there is no rule stating that the IC has to move first, so you follow the normal sequence. That is, you move the closest model into base contact with the closest enemy model, then move all other models in any order you wish as long as they attempt to move into base contact with an enemy model not already in base contact, etc.

Only when making "Defenders React" and "Pile-In" moves do you have to move your IC first. If that's not possible because of friendly models in the way, then simply make that move for the models that are in the way first before doing the same for the character. BGB p49, with clarifications in the FAQ.

Cheexsta has it exactly right.

When making a normal assault move, there is no restriction on moving ICs; they move like any other member of the squad. So with a little forethought you can often set it up in the movement phase so that they will not wind up in BtB and at risk of being attacked (albeit at the cost of them not getting to attack either).

When making a Defenders React or Pile In move, OTOH, the FAQ has now made it so that ICs must move into base contact as soon as it is possible for them to do so (whereas previously the owning player had totally free choice about which models to move in, in what order). They still can't go OVER the bases of other models, and you can't take move another model which is ALREADY in base contact, so it's possible for an IC to not get into BtB in a Defenders React or Pile In move in some circumstances. It depends on the exact positioning and number of the other models in the assault.