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2013/09/01 06:44:50
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter - $698,548 Finish!
I don't need updates every week either, but I also don't like being insulted. By them, by you or by anyone else for that matter. The update was something they brought up with a timeline that they laid down, as I understand it.
Their new excuse is a bs statement. They eat, sleep, talk, surf the internet, watch TV and movies, fight and feth in their time like everyone else. To pretend that statement is in any way truthful is disingenuous at best. And it's insulting to our intelligence.
Besides, they were out until 5am. Ordinarily I wouldn't give a damn what they were doing - because usually I give project creators an allowance that they also get to live their lives, but I imagine in this case they were "not working on the minis".
As evidenced by my recent posts, I've pretty much been in "forget about RH's KS for the next year" mode before this gak storm in a teacup started. Though the timing for people asking for an update is actually quite reasonable, since their bs time frame said the first wave would be shipping in "the Fall" (September-November). I never believed it myself, because I've had a bit of experience with RH, having pre-ordered a number of sets of three and five figures from them before which arrived months later than their projected release dates. But you know, those spoiled children who gave them three quarters of a million dollars - for some reason those entitled immature fethers had the gall to believe what RH said when they were holding their hands out for money. The fools.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/01 06:50:55
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I disagree with RITides that the final product will wash away their transgressions. I can think of a number of companies I won't return to because of customer service issues--like communication. Also, if there's anything universal about the wargamers on Dakka, it's that they hold long, shamefully negative grudges.
Yup, that's why I no longer deal with Blackwater Gulch, didn't like the way the big company handled the wrapping up of the old campaign and how they kicked off a new campaign while the first one wasn't even properly concluded yet, so after I got my stuff I put them on permanent ignore, missing bits or not, I was thoroughly through with them.
----
Which reminds me, we're backers, not customers, meaning we will just have to deal with any delays and whatnots, because hey, thems the rules of Kickstarter baby!
Again, that's why I love Poots and his project. He might not update often through official channels, but at least when he does so it's with updates that show off upcoming product or a prototype of gaming pieces or an update on the whole process as a whole and where it stands.
I know, petty to bring up now, so early in the cycle of this one, but at least he jumped to it straight away after sleeping for a few days instead of being gobsmacked and full of it.
Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
2013/09/01 12:51:20
Subject: Re:Raging Heroes [official] Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter - $698,548 Finish!
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I disagree with RITides that the final product will wash away their transgressions. I can think of a number of companies I won't return to because of customer service issues--like communication. Also, if there's anything universal about the wargamers on Dakka, it's that they hold long, shamefully negative grudges.
Just to clarify, I wasn't saying this is a sure thing, just a possibility.I know the opposite is often true. Just thought it was worth mentioning
2013/09/01 15:08:54
Subject: Re:Raging Heroes [official] Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter - $698,548 Finish!
I guess they have the strong feeling that if they would seriously reply to our questions with a real update that would mean the end of the world they know!
Spoiler:
"Maman, can you tell me the story of the end of our Grand Nation?" "Bien sûr mon petit Nicolas! So here goes:
"ʆ It started with a KS ʆ"
"Maman!"
"OK. When RH was still a small company they needed money, like all small companies do who want to grow. So the bank didn't help, nor did the rest of the family, as they already had helped. So they looked for some other fools... and they started a crowd founding. With lots of promises and not really much else to show they snatched up quite some money. When the investors wanted to know how they proceeded they kept them at bay by promising them an update. And it worked.
Then the revenue office got notice of that and thought that they might get a part of the earnings and wrote them a letter and wanted to get more information to concretize their receivables. Information?! RH were already well versed to keep such silly requests at bay and answered them in their usual arrogant tone and promised to keep them updated. Little did those fools know that they would never get one...
A week later the revenue office tried again and got another promise, this time of an update with info. Another week later the revenue office dared to ask for it, as they didn't get any. They were informed that RH had grander things in preparation for them and they should stop acting like kids.
It happened that Le Président, cette..." "Oui, maman, je sais. L' Hollandaise." " He was visiting Montpellier and when asking why the revenue entrances where so low was informed that they had problems. Just as an example they showed him the communication with RH. He sensed that he needed to meet them.
When he met RH in their office he immediately recognized his own kind. They were natural born arrogant half-wits! "The force is strong with you! You will come with me to the captial where I teach you more!"
Thus RH came to be part of the cabinet. They learned fast, within days they knew everything! And after a week, when the Président had his first foreign trip, RH send him an update! Oh what a joy! I guess that only his ex-wife was as happy as I was!" "Well Maman, you and dad!"
" That very evening they spoke in front of the Assemblée Nationale! They proclaimed the new credo of their government: L'arrogance c'est mois! Their first acts were that updates are only allowed to be executed by the French government, all software companies worldwide rejoiced! And that IQ tests were of no need as AQ tests became mandatory for anyone who wanted to work for the government, gastronomy, or in the tourism industry." "Maman, but AQ tests didn't change anything"
"I know, but now it's a law. They even promised an update of our republic, La République Français 6.0!
As they governed by updates no one did anything as everyone was waiting for an update about what to do. Thus the nation was near bankrupt, as nobody paid the taxes, since nobody asked for them to be paid!
In an unknown act of aggression they declared war on Germany, by threatening them with an update! Chancellor Merkel immediately ordered her troops to be readied. France would fall within a week! She was shocked when her advisors informed her that the stock market had crumbled under the looming update and Germany was losing billions by the minute! Bankruptcy or losing a war. Being German she choose to surrender! Her words still ring in my ears: Verlieren ja, bankrott niemals!
At the evening of victory RH spoke again to the Assemblée Nationale. That evening he even brought Descartes thoughts to our present day: Je update, ergo sum! I update, therefore I am!
Then the end started...
When they returned that night they must have been rather tired and hungry. You know they had not eaten nor slept since that KS. While being huddled around the pc thinking about the pose of the Secretary of Defense Jovovich for the new propaganda posters they suddenly heard "you got mail".
A solitary investor from Down Under asked for information. You see the avatar was so cute...and in a rare moment of indulgence Mireille replied with an update!" "Oh no....Mais Maman, that's forbidden!" "That's the reason why they made that law.
She even replied kindly, excused herself for the delay and even showed some pictures of finished miniatures and renders of things to come. Oh hadn't she! The update was immediately known in the whole community and also to the rest of the world!
Chancellor Merkel promptly rallied the troops and attacked. At the end of the day France didn't exist any more and was under the governance of the EC. Our troops were still waiting in their barracks for the update to really invade Germany and disarm them, thus no one was harmed. Germany was asked to govern France as they had had some experience, they declined: We do not want to have tze same problems again! TZose arrogantz are your problems now! All declined but the Netherlands, they had only one precondition." "I know Maman, but I still think the Brie tastes better" "Eat your Gauda Nicolas and listen.
Vichy denied the Government of the Free French Republic the access. They didn't want them for a second time, as tourism had finally well recovered. Thus they went to Montpellier, where they reside now.
Let's change to something more interesting. What would you like to be when you grow up?" "Président!" "Ah, come il papá! One day I will sing you a song about him."
"But tell me Maman, what happened to Mireille?"
"The moment she replied everyone understood what would happen. The people would look upon it as a weakness, you know she even replied in a kind way after all and gave vital information away. No one would ever again fear their updates. They had lost most of the power they had. She was exiled. When she saw Benoit for the last time, she asked him when they would meet again. He said he would send her an update..." "Oh!" "Yes mon Chouchou, exiled forever."
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/09/01 15:15:36
2013/09/01 18:06:00
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter - $698,548 Finish!
Have you tried contacting them through the KSPM tool? I had a better response to that, at least initially, than the email I sent (during the KS) which still hasn't technically had a response.
One thing to note is that rather than saying they're looking at something / working on something, they seem to have a tendency to leave something unanswered until they have a definite response.
At least I think someone let them know what people thought of the tumblr being regularly updated and what hogwash it was... because it stopped being updated a week ago.
GamesWorkshop wrote: And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
2013/09/03 14:47:12
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter - $698,548 Finish!
The thing is though even with their arrogance, lack of updates and mishandling of the post-KS PR, if they popped another kickstarter up in a few months they'd still get a mass of pledgers.
Just look at Mierce, the amount of vitriol slung their way after the 'maelstrom incident' was unreal. Yet not long after, Mierce launched a KS and all was forgiven as shiny new product appeared before our eyes, and they comfortably hit their funding goal. Everyone forgot how the same man who'd merrily lied to them all for months effectively stealing from a loyal customer base was still the fella who owned the 'new' Mierce. There's a very similar story with CMoN which I'm sure the more savvy consumer is aware of, and yet Raging Heroes has reached nowhere near this level of bad PR, so you can hardly expect the next KS not to do well again, if even the aforementioned companies can pull it off.
That's just how this community seems to work, no matter who is producing the miniatures, no matter how much 'everyone hates them'. As soon as a new line of plastic toys is waved in front of us, the credit cards seem to leap into the ring. I'm not criticising, it's just how it seems to work and no amount of sarcasm or circular arguing in threads will change that. If everyone boycotted after things they didn't like, then maybe there would be incentive to change, but it's never going to happen. Again look at how many years people have been saying GW is going to die due to pricing, yet even if they're 'fiddling figures' to just stay in profit even that is a long way from dying.
Yes I'd love an update, no I didn't expect them to be great communicators. But at the end of the day if the miniatures are as pretty as the ones they usually produce, the patience will have been worth it and I'll have got a good chunk of new shinies for a lot less than I'd pay at retail.
2013/09/05 12:06:46
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter - $698,548 Finish!
Everyone? Not quite. I didn't jump on board the Rob Lane bus, and I'm sure a lot of others didn't as well. Of course, there's no way to measure "what might have been" - either in the case of something like the Mierce KS or even the recent Incursion KS that barely scraped $210k (by being tight with the extras until the 11th hour).
I'm sure there's a lot of people who didn't know, many others who didn't care, and others who "took a gamble" on Mierce. But it doesn't mean they made as much as they would/could have if not linked to the Maelstrom debacle. 108UKP is pretty good, but it's not huge.
CMON benefited from the NWMO thing being many years ago, so newer people to the hobby/online community and vets who had been out for a few years like myself had no idea. As time goes on, it might end up the same for Mierce. Maybe.
Ignatius-Grulgor wrote: The thing is though even with their arrogance, lack of updates and mishandling of the post-KS PR, if they popped another kickstarter up in a few months they'd still get a mass of pledgers.
Just look at Mierce, the amount of vitriol slung their way after the 'maelstrom incident' was unreal. Yet not long after, Mierce launched a KS and all was forgiven as shiny new product appeared before our eyes, and they comfortably hit their funding goal. Everyone forgot how the same man who'd merrily lied to them all for months effectively stealing from a loyal customer base was still the fella who owned the 'new' Mierce. There's a very similar story with CMoN which I'm sure the more savvy consumer is aware of, and yet Raging Heroes has reached nowhere near this level of bad PR, so you can hardly expect the next KS not to do well again, if even the aforementioned companies can pull it off.
That's just how this community seems to work, no matter who is producing the miniatures, no matter how much 'everyone hates them'. As soon as a new line of plastic toys is waved in front of us, the credit cards seem to leap into the ring. I'm not criticising, it's just how it seems to work and no amount of sarcasm or circular arguing in threads will change that. If everyone boycotted after things they didn't like, then maybe there would be incentive to change, but it's never going to happen. Again look at how many years people have been saying GW is going to die due to pricing, yet even if they're 'fiddling figures' to just stay in profit even that is a long way from dying.
Yes I'd love an update, no I didn't expect them to be great communicators. But at the end of the day if the miniatures are as pretty as the ones they usually produce, the patience will have been worth it and I'll have got a good chunk of new shinies for a lot less than I'd pay at retail.
Please don't ignore the fact that Mierce:
1. Was not a single bit arrogant in any of their posts during the KS, but in fact was rather gracious in all their replies.
2. Communicates REGULARLY. I mean, we're talking about multiple updates a month (they had 5 in August) all with a TON of content, from content about the game to stunning Works in Progress.
3. Everything Mierce has produced so far has been shipped 100% on schedule with the KS estimates. Most were early.
So in short, they've been everything Raging Heroes has not been.
In other news, Toughest Girls backers....any updates yet? I'm really curious to see some of the WiPs.
2013/09/05 13:49:06
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter - $698,548 Finish!
Yeah everyone was a little imprecise, was just quicker than being more specific perhaps I should've said it didn't stop a lot of people jumping on board anyway. I know I personally avoided the Mierce KS purely based on who owned the company, and I didn't trust it wasn't just a quick way to raise funds. It just seems bad PR is very quickly forgotten in the community at large, even stuff that is a lot more shocking than an arrogant attitude and a lack of support. I'm also surprised at how you consider 100-200k not a lot, admittedly it's dwarfed by the results of companies like kingdom death on KS, but it's also a lot more than a lot these companies could ever have expected to get through traditional funding channels. As for Mierce having past sins forgotten, it's already happening, one well handled KS and they're already getting people back.
cincydooley wrote:
Please don't ignore the fact that Mierce:
1. Was not a single bit arrogant in any of their posts during the KS, but in fact was rather gracious in all their replies.
2. Communicates REGULARLY. I mean, we're talking about multiple updates a month (they had 5 in August) all with a TON of content, from content about the game to stunning Works in Progress.
3. Everything Mierce has produced so far has been shipped 100% on schedule with the KS estimates. Most were early.
So in short, they've been everything Raging Heroes has not been.
In other news, Toughest Girls backers....any updates yet? I'm really curious to see some of the WiPs.
They basically had to be, the fact that anyone backed at all was a surprise to me, the whole thing seems to have been an exercise in PR. If they'd been anything but perfect with the KS it would've pretty much been the death of the company and with it a very pretty line of miniatures, very few people trusted the company at the point they launched the KS. Now they have indeed handled it well, and maybe a year or two from now if they're still going and they do a third or fourth KS after the planned second I might even consider backing.
I'm not defending Raging Heroes at all here, I'm just pointing out that no matter what companies in the miniatures hobby seem to do they always find customers somehow. Hell I'd love an update, planning on using them for traitor guard stand ins and I want to know what the prettiest ones will be. I just wish medics weren't so terrible in gaming terms as I think I'll end up with three out of this KS if they stick to the concept art.
2013/09/05 16:14:42
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter - $698,548 Finish!
That makes a lot of sense. I know I was pretty hesitant after the whole Maelstrom thing, but I have to admit the guys at Mierce have been FANTASTIC so far.
2013/09/05 17:06:00
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter - $698,548 Finish!
Agreed- they had a huge uphill battle to fight, but they (Mierce) have done everything right so far. I was pretty sure I'd never give them a second look, and now I'm considering them somewhat.
But it's because of why cincy posted:
cincydooley wrote:Please don't ignore the fact that Mierce:
1. Was not a single bit arrogant in any of their posts during the KS, but in fact was rather gracious in all their replies.
2. Communicates REGULARLY. I mean, we're talking about multiple updates a month (they had 5 in August) all with a TON of content, from content about the game to stunning Works in Progress.
3. Everything Mierce has produced so far has been shipped 100% on schedule with the KS estimates. Most were early.
So in short, they've been everything Raging Heroes has not been.
In other news, Toughest Girls backers....any updates yet? I'm really curious to see some of the WiPs.
2013/09/05 22:18:02
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter - $698,548 Finish!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Someone else mailed them and had this to say:
Okay, for now: yesterday I mailed them directly and get this answer:
*****"Thanks for writing. I am sorry for keeping you in the dark. I know you'd like a 2-minute update, but we just don't seem to be able to work that way. I understand how this can be frustrating, but please give us a chance to finish the first wave. We should be able to communicate more often after that.
And if you have a concern or a problem, please don't hesitate to get in touch directly. We do reply to direct messages fairly quickly, as most pledgers who have been in touch with us can agree.
I hope this helps,
Best,
Mireille
Raging Heroes Team"*********
I think this will really help und so what can we do? Waiting
Emphasis mine, teehee.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/06 06:55:27
Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
2013/09/06 07:28:30
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter - $698,548 Finish!
Sure, I finished first wave SOON (tm) would be sweet. Probably even better than some unfinished models and longer wait...
but when? When I ask? This month? This year?
2013/09/06 10:45:36
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter - $698,548 Finish!
RoninXiC wrote: Sure, I finished first wave SOON (tm) would be sweet. Probably even better than some unfinished models and longer wait...
but when? When I ask? This month? This year?
Well it certainly won't be this month; they refuse to send out the pledge manager until they have finished sculpts, they refuse to show WiPs, and they'll have to give people an absolute minimum of a couple of weeks to make their selections from Wave 1. Given their shambolic organisation so far, I'm assuming they won't even have started work on the pledge manager itself, so they'll probably need at least a week after they finish the Wave 1 sculpts to get it functional and emailed out to everyone.
Then they have to actually cast the miniatures and ship them out.
I doubt we'll see a substantial update before the end of the month, if then, and at this point I'll be surprised if the first wave ships before Christmas.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
2013/09/06 16:11:05
Subject: Re:Raging Heroes [official] Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter - $698,548 Finish!