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I am a new DE player and was diligently reading dashofpepper's articles on Dark Eldar on here. I noticed he was using a Wych cult led by a Haemonculus combination.

My question is do the Wyches grant the Haemonculus Fleet when it is joined to the unit?

If not, I'm confused as to how best create synergy between these two as although the Haemonculus can give a Pain Token to the unit, and therefore FNP, surely it slows it down?

fluffywyvern wrote:I am a new DE player and was diligently reading dashofpepper's articles on Dark Eldar on here. I noticed he was using a Wych cult led by a Haemonculus combination.

My question is do the Wyches grant the Haemonculus Fleet when it is joined to the unit?

If not, I'm confused as to how best create synergy between these two as although the Haemonculus can give a Pain Token to the unit, and therefore FNP, surely it slows it down?

The Haemy slows the Wyches down as he lacks Fleet. i.e. if the Wyches run with a Haemy in the unit they cannot assault.

I think the general idea is to detatch the Haemy on turn 1 and the pain token gets left on the Wyches following "sharing the pain".

When the wyches disembark from their transport, the haemonculi is not required to get out with them. The wyches can take the pain token with them.

Grimtuff wrote:

fluffywyvern wrote:I am a new DE player and was diligently reading dashofpepper's articles on Dark Eldar on here. I noticed he was using a Wych cult led by a Haemonculus combination.

My question is do the Wyches grant the Haemonculus Fleet when it is joined to the unit?

If not, I'm confused as to how best create synergy between these two as although the Haemonculus can give a Pain Token to the unit, and therefore FNP, surely it slows it down?

The Haemy slows the Wyches down as he lacks Fleet. i.e. if the Wyches run with a Haemy in the unit they cannot assault.

I think the general idea is to detatch the Haemy on turn 1 and the pain token gets left on the Wyches following "sharing the pain".

This, although it's worth mentioning that you won't ALWAYS have to Fleet.

If wyches disembark but the Haem stays in the transport, can the wyches still fleet or would they be still within 2" at end of movement phase?

Whoops. I cheated last week. Didn't notice that Hammies don't have fleet. That seriously changes my mind on getting Hammies for my Wyche squads. I wanted to field 4 squads of 9 wyches with a hammie in raiders. But, that sounds like it sucks now since they lose fleet due to the Hammie not having it. I hate the idea of leaving the Hammie in the Raider and the Wyches just jumping out. Oh well...

Kurce, they are still very affective but take finess to use. I always use the haem inside the wyches unit but lately ive gotten differnt rulings as to my question above.

WeeDawgNYC, thats exactly what I asked here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/374478.page

Could be nice if everyone write his point of view.

WeeDawgNYC wrote:If wyches disembark but the Haem stays in the transport, can the wyches still fleet or would they be still within 2" at end of movement phase?

If the raider moved, then they are still within 2" by definition. This means they cannot Run (you dont FLEET anymore!) as they would move out of coherency.
However, like a lot of wonky IC rules (such as you not being able to move within 2" of a unit you cannot join. So, no hiding farseers behind wriathlords....) people tend to gloss over this.

Or you disembark the haemi from the other side, and therefore more than 2" away

nosferatu1001 wrote:

WeeDawgNYC wrote:If wyches disembark but the Haem stays in the transport, can the wyches still fleet or would they be still within 2" at end of movement phase?

If the raider moved, then they are still within 2" by definition. This means they cannot Run (you dont FLEET anymore!) as they would move out of coherency.
However, like a lot of wonky IC rules (such as you not being able to move within 2" of a unit you cannot join. So, no hiding farseers behind wriathlords....) people tend to gloss over this.

Or you disembark the haemi from the other side, and therefore more than 2" away

THANK YOU!!!!!

The rules for independant characters embarking and disembarking (p.67 BRB) seem to imply that they can separate by disembarking the unit from the transport, but it falls short of actually spelling out weather they remain attached or not when one leaves the transport and the other stays on board. RAW they appear to still be attached.

The solution would be that the Haemy can leave the transport before it moves, and then he can move on his own leaving him detached from the unit. Or he can disembark at the same time as the Wyches but more than 2 inches away from them, also leaving the unit at the end of the movement phase.

I think you can only embark or disembark a vehicle once per turn, so if you get the Haemi out before moving, you can't get the Wyches out after it moves.

Foo I dont think thats correct. a UNIT cant disembar/embark in the same turn, thats what your referring to.

A unit and an IC can disembark separately from a transport. BRB page 67 top right.

This is going on in another thread right now.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/374478.page

time wizard wrote:A unit and an IC can disembark separately from a transport. BRB page 67 top right.

Yes, Thats not whats in question though. noone is stating that they cant. & in fact is the way to avoid this whole thing is to disembark both in seperate sides.

You can have a haemonculous and wyches in a raider.
Start of movement phase wyches disembark and take the pain token, haemonculous stays in the transport.
They are now separate units, so the wyches with their pain token can run and then assault.

Time - not true, if the wyches stay within 2" they are still joined to the Unit

Can't you move the Raider 12", have the Hammie disembark on one side and the Wyches disembark on the other side? Voila! No longer attached? Let us say that we just keep the Hammie in the Raider. Why would the wyches still be attached to the Hammie? You are within 2" of the Raider, not the IC...

nosferatu1001 wrote:Time - not true, if the wyches stay within 2" they are still joined to the Unit

Nos, we have the same argument going on in 2 different threads!
I posted a counterpoint in this one, http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/374478.page

Kurce wrote:Can't you move the Raider 12", have the Hammie disembark on one side and the Wyches disembark on the other side? Voila! No longer attached? Let us say that we just keep the Hammie in the Raider. Why would the wyches still be attached to the Hammie? You are within 2" of the Raider, not the IC...

Yes Kurce, It is. This in fact is what ive been saying to do. It is the most non argumentitive way of settling this.

WeeDawgNYC wrote:

Kurce wrote:Can't you move the Raider 12", have the Hammie disembark on one side and the Wyches disembark on the other side? Voila! No longer attached? Let us say that we just keep the Hammie in the Raider. Why would the wyches still be attached to the Hammie? You are within 2" of the Raider, not the IC...

Yes Kurce, It is. This in fact is what ive been saying to do. It is the most non argumentitive way of settling this.

But certainly not the only way. There is no rule that forces you to disembark your IC so that it is no longer a part of the unit.

Think of this one.
I have a space marine chaplain and 5 assault termies in a land raider.
I move the raider and disembark the termies. The disembark 1" because they are now within 1" of an enemy MC.
I do not disembark the chaplain.
In the assault phase then termies assault the enemy MC.
If you say the chaplain is still part of the unit, then the terminatos get to re-roll failed to hit rolls as per the chaplain rule.
But this doesn't happen because the chaplain didn't assault, he is no longer part of the unit of terminators.

I like time_wizard's explanation best. The rules appear to support it although it is a little hazy. Plus, it makes the most sense both RAI and RAW (plus, a little bit of realism to boot!). I should be able to hop out and leave the Hammie in the Raider and my Wyches get to fleet and assault that turn. The rules appear to support this interpretation. Otherwise, all sorts of nonsense starts to occur like time_wizard shows in his example.

Locking duplicate topic...