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Hello

Idea is to have "commando" force, I don't care so much about efficiency although it would be cool to win a match

HQ
Primaris Psyker

Elite1
StormTroopers+2xMelta

Elite2
StormTroopers+2xMelta

Troop1
Veterans+3xMelta

Troop2
Veterans+3xMelta

Troop3
Veterans+3xMelta

Fast1
Vendetta+HB spons

Fast2
Vendetta+HB spons

Fast3
Vendetta+HB spons


I think that is as "spec ops" as IG can be... What do you think? How to improve without braking theme?

I wouldn't put HB sponsors on the Vendettas as they should be firing at Vehicles not infantry.

Hmm... More spec ops would be everything with Camo cloads and sentry mines, but meh. Whatever works. This list is likely to shake alot of heads. But i agree with the HB spoonsoons being a no- If you wnat more Anti-infantry, take a squad of vets with nade launchers.

Should I use those 30 points from HB spons to veterans plasmaguns. 2 veterans squads woud then have plasmaguns instead of meltaguns and only 1 squad with melta, tho there is 2 DS StormTrooper squads with melta.
Equals 9twinli LC, 6 plasmaguns, 7 meltaguns
Special weapons for "spec ops" force ^^

Why would you? Plasma guns are worse than melta, they just get longer range. A plasma cant hurt a land raider, meltas can. And if they ar in Vendettas, you should be fine.

No, those 30pts should go on a doctrine for 1 of your vets squads. Any one will do, advanced sentries is more black-op's style, Grenaiders if you want a reliable command squad and demolitionsif you wanna blow holes in the enemy tank line.

provided they have a tank line

Kaptin Grigger wrote:Why would you? Plasma guns are worse than melta, they just get longer range. A plasma cant hurt a land raider, meltas can. And if they ar in Vendettas, you should be fine.

I don't think you can directly compare Melta and Plasma to find one is superior to the other. They have distinctly different roles and very different profiles. Plasma is only "worse" than melta is you try and use a plasma gun like a melta.

Meltas loose 12'' range, gain a S point, go to AP1 and get the melta, and loose gets hot and rapid fire. If you are using plasmas against heavy tanks, you may loose your models. and with a melta, you only need to get closer. Not paticularily hard.

And meltas work better against infnatry and whatever too, as they ID space marine captains even.

and Meltas are half the price.

If he is up against a lot of heavy infantry, like terminators and such, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss plasma as a viable option. It might be crap against heavy armor, but against transports and infantry I've found it to be of great value. The 24in range allows the guardsmen to stay in cover and shoot instead of risking going out in the open to get in close. Then there is the matter if you do get close, and fail to sufficiently weaken the opposing squad, you're easily in assault range which has always been a weak spot of the guard. So my thought would be to remove the HB sponsons and equip one vet squad with plasma and lasguns to support the the melta vets. I mean, he has more than sufficient AT with 3 ven's and two stormy squads with melta. If he could pull it, I'd say try to equip another vet squad with plasma, or go super cheap and get 3 sniper rifles for IC and MC's, just so you have better range support.

Where did the Primaris Psyker come from? I don't think he fits the fluff and he costs a tad too much anyway

Kaptin Grigger wrote:Meltas loose 12'' range, gain a S point, go to AP1 and get the melta, and loose gets hot and rapid fire. If you are using plasmas against heavy tanks, you may loose your models. and with a melta, you only need to get closer. Not paticularily hard.

As I mentioned in my above post, plasma is generally not used for the same targets as melta. I'll also point out that you may loose your models from 'Gets Hot' against ANY target, not just heavy tanks.

Kaptin Grigger wrote:And meltas work better against infnatry and whatever too, as they ID space marine captains even.

Melta has a limited list of infantry it is more effective at killing than plasma. Your statement seems to imply that the entire reason you use melta to shoot at any enemy infantry unit is because you might cause instant death to a space marine IC.

Kaptin Grigger wrote:and Meltas are half the price.

This is false.

Going to be honest, the HB on the vendetta's seem to go really well with the theme. elite troops fighting a bigger force with air support and machine gun fire sounds pretty cool...

How about normal snipers standing in for Ratlings? And what about Marbo? He's about as Spec Ops as they come, he could be kind of the hero of your army. Come to think of it, any special characters would go well with this idea imo. Bastonne, Harker, anybody who stands out above the rest and has their own unique rules/personality makes the army even more fun to play.

As has already been stated, I think plasma vets would be a huge bonus to this list. I say drop the HB sponsons and make 2 squads plasma. Sure you can lose them to gets hot, but the fact you could do serious damage to terminators while being out of assault range is a huge bonus

I'm not completely convinced you actually need plasma here. It's nice to have around purely depending on your local scene, personally I find melta usually does the trick well enough.

If you want plasma in this list, it's a tricky choice between stormies and vets. Vets have the advantage of 1st turn scout moves to slag virtually any tank anywhere on the table. Stormies can do this too, but have only 2 meltas and it will leave a vet squad without a ride. Stormies have the advantage of aerial assault, meaning that your opponent can't really protect his tanks through killing your melta before it hits.

This is why I don't think you need plasma. These are the main things plasma is used against: heavy infantry, monstrous creatures, light transports. Most of the time, 9 TL lascannons and some mop-up melta are probably going to cover your monster killing needs at 1000pts. Same thing with most transports really, and if not a couple plasmas aren't going to help much. This leaves heavy infantry, which is termies and marines. Assuming that most termies you will face have storm shields, plasma is still not as good as making them walk, but I can see why you'd want plasma against tactical terminators and meq.

On the other hand, demolition charges are probably going to do more damage, and they let you keep the melta. That's what I would spend the 30pts from HBs on, and possibly another 30pts from making one vendetta a valkyrie.

Agree with the query on the psyker. This doesn't appear to be a very fluffy choice. CCS or Lord Commie appear to be the way to go. For final elite slot you could look at ratlings or Marbo which would fit the fluff. Drop the HB sponsons to pay for some changes.

If you had more points then doctrines on the vets would certainly fit the theme.

Awesome idea I like the feel you're going for. I gotta agree with the guys who say that the psyker doesnt feel very special ops though, who knows though there are all kinds of psykers in the 40k fluff. I guess I'm just thinking of the ones that are half crazy that would be babbling and screaming about warp dreams while your spec ops crew is tryin to be stealthy.

Psyker is probably the most worthwhile HQ here. For a CCS to fit, it would need its own vendetta, which is a huge bother, and a lord commissar costs more while being less useful.

As for the theme, if you really care about that stuff, you could just model him as some kind of NCO with a quintuple grenade attachment that is prone to malfunction (lightning arc) and a really scary grin (nightshroud).

I actually agree with the Psyker on this list, as putting him with a ST squad or even a Vet squad to give them a chance to foot slog across the battlefield with Nightshroud gives them a touch more survivibility outside a Chimera.

I do have to agree with the HB sponsons, and I would change one to a Valk as your "gunship" with pods. I also have to agree on Rambo...er Marbro as the 3rd Elite choice. But hey...fluff is fluff, as long as you have fun, you can do whatever you want!

Funny you posted this guard list, as I have been kicking around making a 'US Marine' list based off of the series 'The Pacific' and the books that were used to base the series. Could also make up a 'Dirty Dozen' list too!

I do agree, being able to make fluffy lists is pretty awesome.

I'm also going to continue to defend the plasma vets with a single point. With only 1 shot each, assuming 2 hits on termis, there will be 3 left to turn you into paste. With the plasma, there is 6 shots, 4 hits, and then probably 3 dead terminators. They can still beat the squad in an assault, but the chances of them running away are much higher

Thank you for mind opening ideas. I've been playing Marbo in my other forces and I don't know why I left it out of this one. Now the mistake has been fixed.

Fixed "Spec ops"

HQ
Primaris Psyker
Elite1
StormTroopers+2xMelta
Elite1
StormTroopers+2xMelta
Elite3
Marbo
Troop1
Vets+3xMelta
Troop2
Vets+3xMelta
Troop3
Vets+2xMelta+Flamer
Fast1
Vendetta
Fast2
Vendetta
Fast3
Valkyrie

So points for Marbo are taken from 3rd vendetta, HB sponsons and by chaning 1 meltagun to flamer. Primaris is count as some super fighter with some awsome dakkagun . Lightings are indeed not so "spec ops". I try this list tomorrow or so.

I want to thank you humble from your help. May the dakka be with you, always.

I like the idea. I plan to do a similar detachment force for my Deathwatch with Vendettas.

You know, it would probably be a lot of fun to play some more unique missions with this army, if you have a friend to play with who doesn't mind playing an uber-competitive game that might not have the most balanced objectives. You could try to design a scenario for an assassination of sorts, a demolition mission where your spec ops army has to plant a bomb on a building or ammo dump, whatever. This army sounds like a cool idea, and thats just my two cents for taking it one step further.

I look forward to hearing how your list is working! Let us know!

Hey again!
I though you wanted to know how this worked out. Well, I played against Tau (capture and control, spearhead, enemy starts).

Tau deplos all his models on his table quarter. I didn't deplo anything(ST deep, birds outflank)

I got half of my army from reserves on turn 2(2nd vendetta, stormtroopers, valkyrie). Vendetta's veterans popped one devilfish at first and stormtroopers killed 2 broadsides. Even thogh my meltas didn't hit so well (2 out of 7) they did some real damage. Valkyrie veterans didn't hit with meltas and got raped by Enemy HQ on turn 3, but on my 3rd turn Marbo revenges by killing all of those HQ's suits (gotta love democharge and instakill ). 3rd turn 1st vendetta and 2nd stormtroopers come to near enemy objective. Valkyrie what came on turn 2 from the "wrong side" goes to contest my objective.

At the end of turn 3, enemy got 1 broadside and couple fire warriors near enemy objective, and one devilfish with firewarriors onboard going to my objective. I got Valkyrie(contestin my objective). 2 stormtrooper squads(1 in 3 men strong other at full strength) + 1veteran squad + 2 vendetta + primaris on enemy objective.

So at least against this Tau "Spec Ops" worked. I crippled him in 2 turns. Even though my meltas didn't hit as good as they should have.

This armylist is damn fun to play and so mobile if you compare this to normal mech IG. I love this and I'm going to play more with this.

Wow! This is almost the list I made for Elysian drop troops about 2 years ago and then never got around to using. Always wondered if it would work

Dude, I love this list, just for Marbo (Who should really be Naked Snake). I say fill out those storm trooper slots to ten men for them to have more shots to throw at their enemies. My question now is what special operation you're going to give them.

Glad to hear it worked out... hope to hear more battle reports.

How has the Primus worked out?