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I am getting ready for my 1st 40k tournament. I have chosen a Kan wall list although I have a question on the amount of lootas. It is an 1850 tournament.

I have chosen to max out the size of the lootas. This is an extremely shooty kanwall. The list my be found below.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/366000.page

Lootas have been nothing but excellent for me. I am concerned that I have to many what does dakka think?

Dakka will hug you and kiss you. It will pat your head and think you're the greatest lil Ork in the world.

And I will sigh since I think lootas are overrated

I would not feel comfortable with that list. I mean I like lootaz as much as the next person but, you should have more boyz, at least one more squad of 20.
As a side note. In my experience lootaz either are completely worthless or they are absolutely amazing.

Dang that's a lot of Lootaz.

I'd just be worried about getting alpha-striked off the board in T1 (drop pod units with flamers etc).

Like Geemoney said, seems to be light on Boyz. If you have enough Boyz you can basically cover your entire deployment zone to stop deep strike and scout move units from getting close to the Lootaz.

DoW deployment will be really obnoxious with this list.

Personally I've had excellent results from 1 unit of 12, they typically wreck one vehicle per turn every turn in my experience.

You need way more Boyz. Seriously. 40 Boyz is nothing. At 1k, I have 82.

Thing is with Lootas, yeah you roll a 1 for rate of fire and still get 15 shots, but they're still all firing at the same target. If Lootas were able to split fire like Long Fangs, they'd be even more amazing (albeit broken however).

So, take the minimum amount of Lootas because 15 shots or 45 shots, they're all going to the same target.

Also, never ever take Lootas beyond 5 guys. Why? They get shot once, they run off the board. Waste of points. Keep them cheap.

@ AresX8 If they are in squads of 15 they will have mob rule, they are also fearless. You will have to shoot a few more than one.

jacetms87 wrote:@ AresX8 If they are in squads of 15 they will have mob rule, they are also fearless. You will have to shoot a few more than one.

Be that as it may, they're still basically boys with big guns, better swapping in some nobz in their stead - bit more survivability and something to give some flexability cc / shooting. Lootas should be 15 or 5, either for the fearless eventuality or for the cheap yet short lived killing-ness of 5.
I think everyone before has effectively made the very valid point of more boyz are desperately needed in this list. my advice, 15 lootas, mob of nobs and the extra points spent on boys, boys, boys!!!

Nobz is not the way forward just yet. More boyz is. OP, you could sacrifice 3 kanz, one from each unit, to gain more points for boyz. And dropping one unit of gretchin. Get mobs of 20 or 30, Nob with PK/BP set up on each. YOu should be okay from there. If needs be, as others have suggested, mobs of 5 lootas will do.

I'd recommend dropping the loota's down to 10 or less men; as someone pointed out, despite their extortionate firepower (particularly in an Ork list!) they can only target one unit at a time, so 15 seems a bit over-kill IMHO. Obviously the saved points should go on more boyz. Simple fix IMO.

Lootas are best taken in 5s and 15s. 5s because they are expendable, 15 because their low leadership means if they panic you may have enough mob rule to stick around. So.... if you want small groups field 5, you want 20 field a unit of 5 and a unit of 15, 25 then 2 5s and 1 15, you get the idea. Having said that onto your list. How do you plan on covering 3 units of 3 kans with 1 KFF? I'd drop the Lootas down to a 2 units of 5 and 15 or 3 units of 5, pick up another KFF and at least another unit of 20 boyz. Koptas are nice but don't feel too bad if you need to cut 1.

A few things:

1) You can easily cover 9 cans with one KFF. I do it all the time. The KFF, including his base, covers a circle 13-1/2" in diameter. Kans are on a 2-1/2" base, and you only need 2 in range to get the save. If you run your front line like this, you'll always be in range:

X X Y Y Y Z Z
....X...M..Z....

2) Lootas: Everyone goes nuts about about how great Rifleman Dreads are. You're paying 120 points for 4 TL shots. With Lootas, to get an equivalent firepower on average, you need 5 lootas, or 75 points worth of models.

Mathhammer for shooting a Chimera with 15 Lootas:

Average 2 shots per loota, 30 shots. BS2, so 1/3 hit, or 10 hits. 1/6 chance to glance, 1/6 chance to pen. Call immobilized or destroyed a kill, then you have a 5/6 chance to glance with a 1/6 chance to kill, and a 5/6 chance to pen with a 3/6 chance to kill. So, you have a 5/36 + a 15/36 chance to get a kill for a total of 5/9. If you dropped to 5 lootas, it drops down to a 5/27, on average.

If you rolled a 3 for # of shots, it goes up to 15/18. So even then, you're not wasting any firepower.

So yes, lots of lootas are needed to be effective.

Keep in mind, though, that a rifleman dread will only have about a 5/27 chance of getting a kill on a Chimera.

Against an AV 11 vehicle such as a Rhino, on average your 15 lootas will score a kill. This means some overkill may happen on a rhino when you roll 3 shots, but that overkill can help overcome rolling poorly to hit and/or pen.

3) Orks are very much a "Go Big or Go Home" army. You pick a theme, and do your best to maximize the theme. Ork Hordes, Battlewagon Rushes, Trukk Rushes, Kan Walls, Shooty Kan Walls, etc, all follow this idea.

For the Shooty Kan Wall, you want lots of shooting.

For me, trading 11 lootas to get a 20 boyz unit w/ pk nob and a couple of big shootas isn't a good exchange. You're giving up lots of firepower that can be brought to bear early in the game for a reduced number of high str attacks that won't be brought to bear until later.

@ heffling Sounds great to me I will trust in the math hammer, as well as the theme for the army. It has not gone wrong yet. That answer was very well thought out and I appreciate it.

15 Lootas = 30 boyz w/Nob w/PK and BP.

While I highly recommend at least 15 Lootas on the board, I think 45 is excessive. Even if you dropped one squad of Lootas to 5, the remaining points could flush out your boys sqads to 30 a piece. The 5 man loota squad could then be used to target more squishy things while the 15 man squads for more priority targets.

Green is Best! wrote:15 Lootas = 30 boyz w/Nob w/PK and BP.

While I highly recommend at least 15 Lootas on the board, I think 45 is excessive. Even if you dropped one squad of Lootas to 5, the remaining points could flush out your boys sqads to 30 a piece. The 5 man loota squad could then be used to target more squishy things while the 15 man squads for more priority targets.

Finally some one actually said something useful.