Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was playing against Tau and I deployed in a typical aggressive DE manner with all of my skimmers forward ready to strike. My opponent only deployed his broadsides and sniper drones off in his corner.

He seized the iniative and thanks to all of the Tau multi-targetting BS and lots of sixs he destroyed a venom and four raiders first turn. That is about half of my force.

How do I recover from that? I can't deploy expecting my opponent to seize. Do I just chalk it up to bad luck?

I like playing my DE but I think we suffer from not going first more than any other army and we really suffer from losing the initative. Any thoughts?

DE do suffer more than any other army from a lost initiative.

When going up against a gunline many DE players have said a full recovery can't be done. It's the 1 great tournament weakness of DE.

Recovering against Tau is different than recovering against other armies.

As a general rule, you should consider being seized on in your deployment. It happens. Pick a deployment zone that will let you deploy with some cover saves. Force your enemy to deploy where they think you are going to be be in turn 1, not where you are in deployment. They shouldn't be the same.

Against Tau - having been seized against - all my typical plans for move/shoot/assault would get thrown out the window and the remainder of everything would flat out up the table (unless a single turn assault was possible) to get into assault range - whether it is wyches, warriors, wracks...having been seized on, your first turn reaction needs to be to go for broke.

Getting seized is bad.

Getting siezed by a gunline is worse.

Getting seized when you're fragile is worse.

Getting seized when both? It's just a real tough problem.

Dashofpepper wrote:Recovering against Tau is different than recovering against other armies.

As a general rule, you should consider being seized on in your deployment. It happens. Pick a deployment zone that will let you deploy with some cover saves. Force your enemy to deploy where they think you are going to be be in turn 1, not where you are in deployment. They shouldn't be the same.

Against Tau - having been seized against - all my typical plans for move/shoot/assault would get thrown out the window and the remainder of everything would flat out up the table (unless a single turn assault was possible) to get into assault range - whether it is wyches, warriors, wracks...having been seized on, your first turn reaction needs to be to go for broke.

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. So you are saying deploy more conservatively versus Tau than I would against other armies when I go first?

Unfortunately at 1850 points there just isn't enough cover for my entire fleet of 6 raiders, 3 ravagers and 2 venoms. I had my wych raiders right at the front to get them in position for an assault ASAP, but maybe I should deploy them in cover, go flat out turn one and plan for a turn two assault?

I pretty much did flat out everything but by that time all of my wyches were on foot and they don't last long against fire warriors and vespids.

aggie0642 wrote:Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. So you are saying deploy more conservatively versus Tau than I would against other armies when I go first?

Unfortunately at 1850 points there just isn't enough cover for my entire fleet of 6 raiders, 3 ravagers and 2 venoms. I had my wych raiders right at the front to get them in position for an assault ASAP, but maybe I should deploy them in cover, go flat out turn one and plan for a turn two assault?

I pretty much did flat out everything but by that time all of my wyches were on foot and they don't last long against fire warriors and vespids.

Hrm....I'm not necessarily saying to deploy more conservatively, because anyone could seize on you. 16% of the time.

Rather, I'm saying to try forcing your enemy's hand on deployment options. If there's a piece of BLOS terrain in the middle of the board, I'm going to deploy behind it with my wyches. Another way to put it would be that I'm going to be looking for the safest opportunity to achieve a first turn assault. Against other armies - it isn't so important, or possibly even disadvantageous.

It truly is situational. Think back to your game and your deployment. Ask and answer the following questions of yourself:

If I had deployed second and been forced to deploy on the board, how would I have deployed?
If I had deployed second and been forced to deploy on the board, but with the ability to seize the initiative on a 3+, how would I have deployed?

I think the second situation might be something along the lines of the thought-process I'm trying to inspire. Seizing isn't a certainty, but there's a good chance of it...how do you find a balance between alpha-striking and protecting your assets in case things don't go your way?

I have a similar process. I tend to play more durable armies (even my DE are partially WWP-based, less-mechanized, and handle going second better than the typical mech list), and often base my game plan around going second.

If going first I still deploy fairly defensively, maximizing cover and use of LOS-blocking terrain. Even if there's only a 1/6 chance of a cat coming by, there's no sense walking down the street with your pants down and catnip on your genitals.

Dashofpepper wrote:Force your enemy to deploy where they think you are going to be be in turn 1, not where you are in deployment. They shouldn't be the same.

Unless you're using one of your jedi mind tricks, there's no real way to make your opponent do this.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Force your enemy to deploy where they think you are going to be be in turn 1, not where you are in deployment. They shouldn't be the same.

Unless you're using one of your jedi mind tricks, there's no real way to make your opponent do this.

What he means is with a fast and mobile army it is good to be decietful and obscure the true direction that your army is heading.

If you're going first, your opponent (if he's good) will be deploying based on where you will be, not where you deploy.