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So, my Grey Knight librarian got sniped out of the Draigostar last night in our 2v2 game, I just wanted to make sure this ability was being used correctly.

So, Eldrad/Farseer can elect any target inside of a unit, then test off of their leadership, and that model takes the wound, negating any sort of wound allocation within the squad. This is how it works, correct?

The Lib was the only one to die in the Draigostar, and me and a tyranid won 9-4 in Annihilation, but I just wanted to make sure since I'm certain this is going to be a tactic of his in the future.

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So, genestealers managed to engage a unit of stealthsuits in the middle of the table, didn't wipe them out, and we were pretty sure they would be fine and ready to melt faces in our next turn. Eldar turns his Vibro cannon on the stealth suits, since you don't have to elect a target with this weapon, and it fires in a straight line. Result was the stealth suits getting killed off, leaving the genestealers open to massed fire for the rest of the turn, wiping them out pretty much completely. Legal?

Yes, that is correct.

Assuming the vibro can shoot "into" combat, this is legit.

Im not sure does vibro cannon seperetaly specify that it can shoot in a combat BUT if you are firing template weapons etc. they cant touch your own side units so why would it be different with vibro cannon?

Yes the psychic power Mind War is able to snipe of models out of a squad, though in the scenario you described that isn't so easy. So I'll go over it so you know if you didn't forget anything.

First Mind war only has an 18" range and needs LOS. so he would have need to be pretty close to you.
He would have to take a psychic test at LD10-1=9 because of your "The Aegis" rule.
If he passes his test, then you can use your psychic hood. You each roll a D6 and add your LD (in this case both are 10), if you roll higher then the power fails.
If psychic hood fails to stop it, then you resolve Mind war, you each roll a D6 again and add your LD, you take wounds equal to the amount he beats you with. So if he got 15 and you 13 then you take 2 wounds, if you roll equal or higher then nothing happens.
When you take wounds you are not allowed to take armour saves, but you are still allowed to take any cover and invulnerable saves.

So I hope you didn't forget about your psychic hood or any saves you could take.

As for the Vibro cannon, the FAQ covers it:

Q. Can vibro cannons affect targets out of line of
sight? Friendly units? Units locked in combat?
A. Yes, they are rather indiscriminate weapons.

I don't think you can target a unit in cc though... that's pretty much verboten in 5th. Now, if you can target some other unit (legally) and the vibro cannon shot just happens to pass through units in cc, that's another thing entirely...

Gitsplitta wrote:I don't think you can target a unit in cc though... that's pretty much verboten in 5th. Now, if you can target some other unit (legally) and the vibro cannon shot just happens to pass through units in cc, that's another thing entirely...

Eldar Codex pg45 wrote:When firing a Vibro cannon battery, roll to hit (the firer does not need to pick a target). If any of the vibro cannons hit, draw a single 36" straight line from one vibro cannon in any direction.

So no you don't need to target an enemy unit for it to fire.

Wow! That's impressive... and unusual.

Tylarion wrote:Yes the psychic power Mind War is able to snipe of models out of a squad, though in the scenario you described that isn't so easy. So I'll go over it so you know if you didn't forget anything.

First Mind war only has an 18" range and needs LOS. so he would have need to be pretty close to you.
He would have to take a psychic test at LD10-1=9 because of your "The Aegis" rule.
If he passes his test, then you can use your psychic hood. You each roll a D6 and add your LD (in this case both are 10), if you roll higher then the power fails.
If psychic hood fails to stop it, then you resolve Mind war, you each roll a D6 again and add your LD, you take wounds equal to the amount he beats you with. So if he got 15 and you 13 then you take 2 wounds, if you roll equal or higher then nothing happens.
When you take wounds you are not allowed to take armour saves, but you are still allowed to take any cover and invulnerable saves.

So I hope you didn't forget about your psychic hood or any saves you could take.

Well, he told me that Eldrad made mindwar 36", so he was outside of my range to hood. And yes, he was testing with LD9 because of the Aegis. Eldrad used the ability 3 times, I'm not sure if that is permitted actually, wounded 4 times on 1(which I saved 3 with cover saves), failed the 2 others or I equaled his LD. Then another Farseer in his squad (attached to Eldrad) used mindwar at 36", and scored 4 wounds, which I saved 3 with cover again, but those were my 2 wounds for my Lib, therefore sniping him out of the squad.

Good to know that the vibro cannon was legal though.

Mind War can't go that far. There's no way to increase the range.

Eldrad can use the same power twice, unlike regular Farseers, but Mind War is a PSA, and no one can use those more than once. Eldrad has no use the same power three times ability.

To summarize, this is a terrible way to actually try to kill a Grey Knight Librarian when you're playing with the actual rules.

Yea, I pulled up the Eldar codex online and I see nothing about Eldrad doubling the range of psychic powers, am I missing something?

Also, he can't cast the same power 3 times, only 2 times, on account of his special staff.


Oh yea, you can't use a psychic shooting attack more than once anyway... nice.

Yeah, the only way to actually double the range is through the Apocaplypse seer council rules... Anything other than that, it's at most 18".

What are the Apoc seer council rules?

He told me that the Augment for warlocks is in Craftworld Eldar for the range increase. Trying to find it.

Hmm, Craftworld Eldar is an expansion for 3rd edition Eldar, so previous edition of the codex.

SOunds like hes mixing and matching codexes. He cant do that, well - if you allow him to he can.

Vibro cannon uses rules similar to JotWW - affecting all targets along a straight line.

I'm guessing this was a team tournament? If so, it was a stroke of genius on the part of the eldar/tau team. However, it looks like your opponent wasn't giving you correct information about the way his army works.

We've got a local player that always rolls 3d6 and discards the highest die when making Ld tests for Guardians with an Embolden Warlock in the squad, even after being told repeatedly that Embolden simply allows a reroll of the Ld test. Sometimes folks that have been playing a while forget the way things work now. I don't know if that's the situation here, but next time, make sure he's playing with the newest codex (maybe get a copy for yourself that's not digital) and politely call him on shenanigans when necessary.

Well, it wasn't a team tournament, we were just doing a 2v2 game.

I actually don't know if he realized that the Craftworld Eldar dex was so out of date, and that it isn't really applicable to 4th ed Eldar.

daedalus-templarius wrote:
I actually don't know if he realized that the Craftworld Eldar dex was so out of date, and that it isn't really applicable to 4th ed Eldar.

Only Marines come in different flavors. Armies that outnumber marines millions to 1 are uniform across the galaxy.

OK, a few things here, most of which was already covered.

Vibro cannons are trash, they eat up a Hvy Support slot preventing you from taking a unit that will actually kill something. You might kill a few models but it won't be half what a Fire Prism would have, plus less mobile.

Secondly what you were facing was an old Ulthwe' seer council from, not this current but the one before, Eldar codex. The warlocks had an "augment" psychic power that doubles the range of the next power cast by a farseer in the same squad. You friend is playing out of the old codex or atleast the old "craftworlds" supplement. While this isn't tourny legal I can't say that I fault him as Eldar psyckers are probably the worst in the game (as ironic as that is)! My Imp Guard Primerus Psyker would take one down easy, I've play tested it!!

But your friend screwed up with Eldrad but everything else is legal... in the old codex Eldar, but not in this newest, and very lame, edition of their codex. =

So... does it say somewhere that the old supplement is invalid with the new codex? (friend of mine brought this up, sigh) Obviously I know it isn't tournament legal.

Or is that something that is just supposed to be assumed, since it is an expansion for the 3rd ed 'dex?

GW rarely say something is invalid.

In a friendly game you can play how you like - so if you dont want him to use the codex supplement, say so.

Well, I already told him that the supplement isn't really valid for his current codex, so hopefully that will be enough.

Was hoping for maybe something more concrete.

If he insists on using old supplements, go look up some of the Imperial Armor stuff and find the cheesiest thing you can find that says, "may be taken as X support with Y Codex", something like the Land Raider Achilles, and throw a proxy down next time you play. When he is confused as to how you got such a ridiculous unit in a standard game, just look at him and tell him that 'it doesn't say anywhere that I CAN'T use this with my normal codex".

In fact, you will have a much stronger case for using whatever Imperial Armor cheese that you can find, since that at least is current edition.

Don't do this if he relents and uses the codex properly...but if he's being a git, I see no reason not to out-git him.

DarknessEternal wrote:Mind War can't go that far. There's no way to increase the range.

Eldrad can use the same power twice, unlike regular Farseers, but Mind War is a PSA, and no one can use those more than once. Eldrad has no use the same power three times ability.

To summarize, this is a terrible way to actually try to kill a Grey Knight Librarian when you're playing with the actual rules.

While I agree with everything else you said, other than the Dakka FAQ, Mind War is not a psychic shooting attack. Its simply used in the shooting phase. By GW FAQ and rules, you should be able to use this twice, correct?

Maureth wrote:While I agree with everything else you said, other than the Dakka FAQ, Mind War is not a psychic shooting attack. Its simply used in the shooting phase. By GW FAQ and rules, you should be able to use this twice, correct?

The GW FAQ for Eldar specifically states that Mind War is a Psychic Shooting Attack.

.

Xarian wrote:The GW FAQ for Eldar specifically states that Mind War is a Psychic Shooting Attack.

I stand corrected. I don't recall reading that part before, but you're right, its there. Thank you.

Are you playing this guy in tournaments, or pick-up games?

If pick-up, is he a decent opponent? If so, would it bother you greatly to play against a list that the opponent enjoys playing and which offers a variant of Eldar presenting stronger Psychic powers? The Eldar should be much stronger than they are currently.

No matter what, he should be willing to play against you using the current/proper rule-set to allow you to practice against the actual list.

Scott wrote:Are you playing this guy in tournaments, or pick-up games?

If pick-up, is he a decent opponent? If so, would it bother you greatly to play against a list that the opponent enjoys playing and which offers a variant of Eldar presenting stronger Psychic powers? The Eldar should be much stronger than they are currently.

No matter what, he should be willing to play against you using the current/proper rule-set to allow you to practice against the actual list.

The fact eldar psykers do not live upto fluff standards is depressing and is pushing everyone towards mech eldar. Eldar psykers should dominate the battlefield but they dont't/ Hope they are fixed soon. If the game is still fun with the old rules supplement just carry on as is. Unless you desperately want to win it is just a game remember.

Landraider Achilles would be pretty lulzy, however, it seemed like he isn't going to use the supplement anymore. We'll see what happens.

Haha, would be funny to see his face "well I can't see where I CAN'T take this, so I MUST be able to take it, right?"

Scott wrote:Are you playing this guy in tournaments, or pick-up games?

If pick-up, is he a decent opponent? If so, would it bother you greatly to play against a list that the opponent enjoys playing and which offers a variant of Eldar presenting stronger Psychic powers? The Eldar should be much stronger than they are currently.

No matter what, he should be willing to play against you using the current/proper rule-set to allow you to practice against the actual list.

He is just a friend of mine, we usually do 2v2 games with random teams between the 4 of us.