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This is in a narrative setting, not on Table Top, so don't compare solely based on their table top rules.

So Who you Got? Is Ragnar able to to dodge faster than Kharn can hit with Gorechild? Or is Kharn just too much of a B.A.M.F.?

In a straight up one on one fight?

Kharn. The Yiff captain is powerful, but compared to the mortal champion of the Blood God, who breached the walls of the Emperor's palace, he really *shouldn't* stand a chance, plot armor notwithstanding.

I got Ragnar.


Kharn will probably roll nothing but 1s

Had a brainfart half-way through; left the computer and came back to see my half-written Kharn vs Ragnar comparison and forgot that it was narrative based, not TT, so i've re-written:

In fluff, i'd wager Kharn. Ragnar doesn't have the Blood God behind him, nor does he have the bloodthirst of Kharn. Skill-wise, i'd say they're on the same page; Ragnar has reflexes whereas Kharn has sheer brutality, being able to block and dodge at inhuman speed is all well and good, but what happens when you can't get a strike of your own in because you're being battered into a corner?

Being granted the boons of the Blood God would mean having at least some combat ability, and I doubt that Kharn would've impressed Khorne if he went toe-to-toe with someone and got smashed into the ground; at the very least, i'd expect the fight to be epic beyond belief.

Kharn because he's killed thousands for over 10,000 years , battled at the Horus Hersey and splintered two legions just because they stooped fighting.

In game, mathammer:

Assuming neither side gets the charge...

Ragnar does 1.48 unsaved wounds.

Kharne does 1.66 unsaved wounds.

Pretty much a tie here. They'll mathematically kill each other off over the course of 2-3 close combat rounds, as they strike simultaneously. So it comes down to who gets the charge.

In the fluff:

If we're talking about a straight one-on-one fight, Kharne wins, hands down. However, Ragnar's strength is as a leader. If we're talking a full battle or campaign between the 2, then Ragnar's forces will come out on top. Kharne has little concept of strategy except "Run towards closest warm body, cut off head, rinse and repeat."

I challenge the myth that Berzerkers don't have any concept of strategy. It makes terribly little sense to have them think nothing more than "KILL! MAIM! BURN!", because they'd all die as soon as the enemy realises that all they need to do is put a large unit at the end of a killing corridor.

Kharn wouldn't have gotten anywhere near to any enemies if he lacked any sense of tactics and strategy, and so it stands to reason that Berzerkers (inc. Kharn) do actually have very acute strategical and tactical concepts, contrary to popular belief.

I got me some plasma to mow both of them down... All about Sicarius, son.

shealyr wrote:
Kharne has little concept of strategy except "Run towards closest warm body, cut off head, rinse and repeat."

It's been working for 10 thousand years for Kharn. And Orks. So don't knock it!

I'd also bet on Kharn. Even in the current dex and its uber-lame fluff, he actually fights quite clever, shooting at faces to make enemies recoil and create openings, tossing corpses to throw attackers off-balance. Too bad he was being awesome at killing how own team; if they had written him stomping five Ultramarines solo Matt Ward would get the vapors.

So yes, I think he's more of a bloodthirsty but cunning fighter with ten millenia of experience behind him, and not just a 'Hulk Smash!!' moron. Even if the green giant actually beats him at Scrabble.

In the tabletop, I think whomever gets the charge would win. Absent charges, it's quite close. I think Kharn would win 55 out of 100 duels. A slight edge, but nothing you could rely on.

Ok, Kharne has the power of the blood god behind him, but I've read Ragnar's saga in the books, when faced with an impossible battle, where the odds are stacked against him he always taps into the power of the Wulfen, and goes into a beserker rage killing everything in sight acheiving a savage victory, when he returns to his senses nothing is left standing.

On the table top, I've put Ragnar face to face with Kharne in battles, Ragnar ussually has three additional attacks after killing a few models then rolls for Counter Attack after being charged by Kharne, end result is usually Kharne and Ragnar KILL EACH OTHER.

Reason: On a roll of a 1, if no friendly Chaos models have joined the assault with Kharne, Kharne wounds himself. He is so crazy, he likes to cut himself just so he can feel the pain of being alive.

but I've read Ragnar's saga in the books

Books are not reliable, really. One author will load plot armour onto the main characters and another might kill them off as if they were Regular Joe Guardsman XYZ. Skills also vary, with one author portraying somone as a fierce fighter, but not without flaws, and the other portraying him as a a Calgar-wannabe and totally unbeatable.

There's also the fact that there is very little fluff on Kharn, as opposed to Ragnar, so we cannot truly compare feats.

Of course, were there many books with Kharn as a main character, it'd be likely that he'd be the enemy, and everyone knows that baddies can't win for some inane reason or other.

Ragnarok2070 wrote:Ok, Kharne has the power of the blood god behind him, but I've read Ragnar's saga in the books, when faced with an impossible battle, where the odds are stacked against him he always taps into the power of the Wulfen, and goes into a beserker rage killing everything in sight acheiving a savage victory, when he returns to his senses nothing is left standing.

And a warrior possessed of the fury of the blood god from a Legion whose troops are now known as Berzerkers, having undergone psycho-lobotomization and indoctrination to enhance his aggression and fighting capabilities on top of being a Horus Heresy era Space Marine, who breached the Emperor's Palace, survived that and survived being run over and impaled on the front of a Rhino (in flight of the eisenstein IIRC), shattered and fractured two entire Space Marine Legions, is unmatched in his skill in hand to hand combat, who instills dread and fear into even other Khornate Berzererkers, isn't likely to be a bit better at the whole "berzerk rage" thing?

Avatar 720 wrote:Kharn wouldn't have gotten anywhere near to any enemies if he lacked any sense of tactics and strategy, and so it stands to reason that Berzerkers (inc. Kharn) do actually have very acute strategical and tactical concepts, contrary to popular belief.

Khorne Berzerkers are incredibly calm off the battlefield because of all the bloodshed they cause that sates their lust and the rage they vent in combat leaves them calmer off the field.

Hell, there's even a certain extract of fluff in the CSM 'dex where a bunch of Berzerkers are trapped and being shelled. They still have the tactical accumen of any other Space Marine (albeit, one with 10,000 years of experience), it's just when they're in melee that they're brutal, savage butcherers and slaughterers.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:Kharn wouldn't have gotten anywhere near to any enemies if he lacked any sense of tactics and strategy, and so it stands to reason that Berzerkers (inc. Kharn) do actually have very acute strategical and tactical concepts, contrary to popular belief.

Khorne Berzerkers are incredibly calm off the battlefield because of all the bloodshed they cause that sates their lust and the rage they vent in combat leaves them calmer off the field.

Hell, there's even a certain extract of fluff in the CSM 'dex where a bunch of Berzerkers are trapped and being shelled. They still have the tactical accumen of any other Space Marine (albeit, one with 10,000 years of experience), it's just when they're in melee that they're brutal, savage butcherers and slaughterers.

Which is my point; Berzerkers are not completely devoid of strategical and tactical concepts; this is a myth and is completely wrong.

Avatar 720 wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:Kharn wouldn't have gotten anywhere near to any enemies if he lacked any sense of tactics and strategy, and so it stands to reason that Berzerkers (inc. Kharn) do actually have very acute strategical and tactical concepts, contrary to popular belief.

Khorne Berzerkers are incredibly calm off the battlefield because of all the bloodshed they cause that sates their lust and the rage they vent in combat leaves them calmer off the field.

Hell, there's even a certain extract of fluff in the CSM 'dex where a bunch of Berzerkers are trapped and being shelled. They still have the tactical accumen of any other Space Marine (albeit, one with 10,000 years of experience), it's just when they're in melee that they're brutal, savage butcherers and slaughterers.

Which is my point; Berzerkers are not completely devoid of strategical and tactical concepts; this is a myth and is completely wrong.

*shrug*. I guess what people think on this matter is based entirely on how far gone they are.

I certainly know I'm beyond saving.. 5,500+ posts? Nerd persona, eat your proverbial heart out.

Khorne Berzerkers probably have some of the best Tactical knowledge of the Space Marines even if they tear their enemy's apart with utter blood thirst and no mercy , do you think they would still exist in the numbers they currently do if they thought charging and hacking would do the job. Khorne may not care from where the blood flows but still why not kill more that the enemy? Kharn may not seem to be smart but he's probably more cunning than most marines.

Mighty warrior of Khorne indeedy.

Kharn is also functionally immortal and unkillable. Ragnar's got nothing for that.

DarknessEternal wrote:Kharn is also functionally immortal and unkillable. Ragnar's got nothing for that.

Asides from being a Spehss Pup, he has Pups, in SPEHSS!1!!!111!1!

DarknessEternal wrote:Kharn is also functionally immortal and unkillable. Ragnar's got nothing for that.

Yeah, nothing without Plot armor.

If this fight was ever written I'm sure it would end in a draw, due to Ragnar's Plot armor, but it would be one hell of a fight.

Khârn the Betrayer all the way!


I've heard from reliable sources that Khârn doesn't like people who miss the caret above the "a" in his name, just sayin'...

Probably end up with Ragnar getting his rear exit handed to him but being saved by an opportunely timed land raider roadkill.

shealyr wrote:In game, mathammer:

Assuming neither side gets the charge...

Ragnar does 1.48 unsaved wounds.

Kharne does 1.66 unsaved wounds.

Pretty much a tie here. They'll mathematically kill each other off over the course of 2-3 close combat rounds, as they strike simultaneously. So it comes down to who gets the charge.

Well, technically 1.48 rounds off to 1, while 1.66 rounds off to 2... so Kharn does win mathematically speaking.

Actually 1.48 will round up to 1.5 which will then round up to 2, so they still draw.

Avatar 720 wrote:Actually 1.48 will round up to 1.5 which will then round up to 2, so they still draw.

Or you could do it the correct way and round to whole numbers straight away...

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:Actually 1.48 will round up to 1.5 which will then round up to 2, so they still draw.

Or you could do it the correct way and round to whole numbers straight away...

MATH FIGHT!!!!

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:Actually 1.48 will round up to 1.5 which will then round up to 2, so they still draw.

Or you could do it the correct way and round to whole numbers straight away...

Doing it that way would still come up with 1.5 unsaved wounds (6 attacks from Kharn doing 4.998 hits, rounded to 5, and 3.335 wounds, rounded to 3, with a 4+ invulnerable save halving that 3 to 1.5 which is then rounded to 2), and so i'm still right anyway; I was simply correcting Tarkand's rounding by stating that 1.48 would first be rounded to 1.5.

uuuuuh, no.

if the number is under 5, you round down.

if its 5 or more, you round up.

no such thing as rounding to 5 and then up to 10

Grey Templar wrote:uuuuuh, no.

if the number is under 5, you round down.

if its 5 or more, you round up.

no such thing as rounding to 5 and then up to 10

I was taught in maths (and I distinctly remember it) that if you have a number like 1.48, then since the 8 is 5 or greater, it will round the 4 in front of it to 5, which will in turn cause the number to round to 2.

Avatar 720 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:uuuuuh, no.

if the number is under 5, you round down.

if its 5 or more, you round up.

no such thing as rounding to 5 and then up to 10

I was taught in maths (and I distinctly remember it) that if you have a number like 1.48, then since the 8 is 5 or greater, it will round the 4 in front of it to 5, which will in turn cause the number to round to 2.

That's not how it works. you don't round one number in multiple decimal places.