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Just looking at the rules for the MoTF. Which comes with (i think) a single servo-arm as standard.

It says (not an exact quote i'm afraid) that you can have a servo-harness adnd get 2 P.Fists, the plasma gun and flamer.

OR

You can lose the servo-harness and have the Conversion Beamer instead.

If you take the Beamer, do you still keep the original single servo-arm as well?

Yes.

Yes, the servo arm is standard gear, were as the harness adds +1 arm attack and two weapons, plus repair bonuses.

You keep the servo arm with the beamer.

Great. Now i have to model a servo-arm n my model.

Cheers peeps.

Actualy a MotF has a servoharness and servo arm as standard. He simply loses the Harness if he takes the beamer

The harness acts to upgrade the servo arm, you need both (as unintuitive as that may sound) to get two attacks.

Weird. i thought the Conversion beamer caused him to lose all the servo-arms. Might have to get a bit creative with the placing of it on the model now. Doh.

Ummm.... I have my codex open right infront of me, and the Master of the Forge does not have a servo-arm at all. He comes with a servo-harness, but it gets replaces if you take the conversion beamer.

Ok, that's what i thought.

Thaanos wrote:Ummm.... I have my codex open right infront of me, and the Master of the Forge does not have a servo-arm at all. He comes with a servo-harness, but it gets replaces if you take the conversion beamer.

The servo arm is listed in the Forces of the Space Marines section, but not in the actual army list.

The Servo Harness rules make it fairly clear that the harness acts as an addition to the initial Servo Arm, which does suggest that he's supposed to have the initial arm listed in the Forces section. Chalk it up to one that they missed from the errata.

Could this possibly be a confusion between the Techmarine and the MoTF?

I know the techmarine starts with just the 1 servo arm and can then upgrade to a full harness, does the entry for MoTF list a servo harness as beign in his basic wargear?

insaniak wrote:

Thaanos wrote:Ummm.... I have my codex open right infront of me, and the Master of the Forge does not have a servo-arm at all. He comes with a servo-harness, but it gets replaces if you take the conversion beamer.

The servo arm is listed in the Forces of the Space Marines section, but not in the actual army list.

The Servo Harness rules make it fairly clear that the harness acts as an addition to the initial Servo Arm, which does suggest that he's supposed to have the initial arm listed in the Forces section. Chalk it up to one that they missed from the errata.

But that's listed under the tech-marine entry, which does come standard with a servo-arm.

The MotF uses the same Harness rules entry as the Techmarine. And, again, has the Servo Arm listed on his Forces page. It's just missing from his Army List entry.

He has to have a servo-arm. If you read the Servo-Harness, it includes the servo-arm's existence in its text.

As above.

Servo arm + Servo-harness = MotF basic equipment

You lose the harness but retain the harness if you take the beamer.

You HAVE to have a servo arm, otherwise the harness does not work.

hmm, and yet, the techmarine entry has "upgrade servo-arm to a servo harness" not "add a servo-harness for x"
quirky

Yes. Servoharness is upragde and if replaced w cb, motf has servoarm.

Ok, checkthe codex last night.

The MoTF starts with a full harness and a bolter. You can choose to swap out the full harness and the bolter for a Conversion beamer.

The Techmarine starts out with a single servo-arm. If he then chooses to take the harness he essentially adds the flamer, plasma and 1 servo arm to the existing arm to create the full harness.

Also they're str8 attacks but aren't powerfists - that's an old edition.

I thought they counted as attackign with a powerfist. i suppose if they are S8 adn ignore armour, and hit at I1 then that is pretty much a powerfist.

Praxiss wrote: i suppose if they are S8 adn ignore armour, and hit at I1 then that is pretty much a powerfist.

More or less. But the distinction would be important if any in-game affect alters the Tech's Strength.

insaniak wrote:

Praxiss wrote: i suppose if they are S8 and ignore armour, and hit at I1 then that is pretty much a powerfist.

More or less. But the distinction would be important if any in-game affect alters the Tech's Strength.

Like what? No trying to argue, i am honestly curious as i dont know. /shrug

Praxiss wrote:

insaniak wrote:

Praxiss wrote: i suppose if they are S8 and ignore armour, and hit at I1 then that is pretty much a powerfist.

More or less. But the distinction would be important if any in-game affect alters the Tech's Strength.

Like what? No trying to argue, i am honestly curious as i dont know. /shrug

Hammerhand springs to mind, as does Might of Titan. Sure, it's not in the vanilla book, but the wording is the same.

lolwut?

He has a servo harness. it says nowhere he has a servoarm.

[quote=SM Codex [paraphrased]]
Wargear
- Art. Armour
- Servo Harness
- Boltweapon
- Frag/krak grenades.

Thanks Cap'n

Captain - try reading the motf actual main entry. He has both an arm and a harness.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Captain - try reading the motf actual main entry. He has both an arm and a harness.

No, the the servo harness is an additional servo arm, making two. If you loose the harnes, you loose both servo arms.

Armadeus wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Captain - try reading the motf actual main entry. He has both an arm and a harness.

No, the the servo harness is an additional servo arm, making two. If you loose the harnes, you loose both servo arms.

While not a definitive answer, this is how Army Builder handles the MotF's addition of the Conversion Beamer - he loses both the harness and the servo arm. It would be nice to keep one arm, though. I stick my CB in with a devestator squad loaded with Missile Launchers and that S8 pw attack helps deter deep striking assaulters (to a degree).

No; the Servo Harness is an extra Servo Arm, a Plasma cutter, and a Flamer.

You cannot have an extra uinless you have 1 to begin with; the Servoharness is not itself 2 Servo arms.

This is all on page 71 of the Vanilla Codex.

Now Look at page 70 of the Vanilla Codex. See the Wargear? See these words: Servo Arm, Servo Harness: see opposite page?

The MotF will always have 1 Servo Arm; the army list is not the be-all, end-all of a unit's abilities and/or wargear. After all if it was and you were never to look at the army descriptions, then you have no idea how most unit's rules or wargear work.

If this is a discrepancy between the army pages and the unit summary page, wouldn't have been addressed in an FAQ somewhere?

It seems to me that the 2 entries for MoTF in the same book are contradicting each other.

Fluff-wise, i can see the MoTF maintaing a single servo arm after the harness is gon.e. Afer all, he can still repair vehicles and bolster defenses, which woudl be tough without the help of the servo arm.

Praxiss wrote:If this is a discrepancy between the army pages and the unit summary page, wouldn't have been addressed in an FAQ somewhere?

It should have been. Either they overlooked it, or they feel that it's clear enough that he should have the original arm in the first place. I'm going for the former option, though.