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Helping the lil bro out with remaking his Blood Angels into a more competitive format but uncertain about where to go...the more help the merrier:

HQ

The Sanguinor

Elites

Furioso Dreadnought w Librarian Upgrade & Wings of Sanguinius/Blood Lance

Troops

Assault Squad x10: 2x meltaguns

Assault Squad x10: 2x meltaguns

Assault Squad x10: 2x meltaguns

Fast Attack

Vanguard Vets x9: infernus x1, Sergeant w/ Lightning Claw

Vanguard Vets x9: infernus x1, Sergeant w/ Lightning Claw

Some things to keep in mind: I know, I know its the Sanguinor but having Eternal Warrior, and that 3++ save combined with the rerolling of DoA which should not leave him stranded makes him, IMHO, a better fit than Dante as well as just being generally better in assault with Furious Charge and what not (who I would only use in a Sanguinary Guard variant). The Furiosi Dread just seems like a nice spot to park 175 points, has anti tank and (as counterintuitive as it sounds) can fly, meaning after I have him hide behind Impassable Terrain Turn 1 will be back into the fray easily...13 AV made the decision for me. The lightning claws are free for the Vet Sergeants, but I am still debating melta vs infernus on the assault squads...i love infernus but i think the extra price combined with smaller range (and for just one more attack?) means they wont be as useful...though things could change.

Not a Blood Angels player, but seen a few of these lists, and got some advice on one i posted.

First things first, Sanguinior and Librarian Dread don't fit in here i don't think. If you want a special character at 1500 DoA then take Dante, as he has his accurate deep striking, can join a squad (so take 4 Melta honour gaurd or something, drop next to Land Raider or Gaurd tank squadron etc and melta away). And the Dread is walking, which although he can fly and probably hide behind cover, just doesn't really fit.

Keeping your list pretty similar, i would say drop Sanguinior, and Dread, add in Dante, a Jump Pack Librarian and Drop podding Furioso, which means you need to find 60 points i think, so take away from one or both Vanguard squads (A couple of men, or upgrades etc, however you can find the points).

There are many other ways of building effective DoA lists, thats just a way to keep your Assault Squads and Vanguard Vets the same, keeping a Dread and i what i think is making you HQ much better.

Just read your comments again, Sanguinior is good, but eternal warriors, 3++ doesn't really help when he is going to be getting shot at for a turn if Deep striking close, or more than one turn if further away possibly. He will die, and i think the army wide bonus just isn't good enough when your 275 point character will 'probably' (not definatly) die before assault quite often, since DoA is only a 6" scatter anyway...the re-roll although nice, isn't necessary.

I would say drop the number of guys in the VV Squads and add some AV popping weapons eg. PF's and Melta bombs. this will save you loads of points which you could use to take something like 2 libbys (w/UR) for the ASM squads and priests.

The Priests will boost the army's overall survivability also.

If the army starts in reserve, the Dread will become a liabilty.
I'd take 5 men VV squads with a power fist. These units are pretty nasty, as they can eventually charge upon arrival.
Dante with a Sanguinary Guard or a Honor Guard (with melta type weapons) would be the better bet than the Sanguinor.

rodgers37 wrote:
Keeping your list pretty similar, i would say drop Sanguinior, and Dread, add in Dante, a Jump Pack Librarian and Drop podding Furioso, which means you need to find 60 points i think, so take away from one or both Vanguard squads (A couple of men, or upgrades etc, however you can find the points).

Thanks a ton...but due to Dpod assault, wouldnt the lone furioso turn one be picked apart?

@Falco: so antivehicle...in the ASMs? or VVs...

Dante's Inferno Take 2:

HQ

Dante

Honor Guard: melta x3, Powerfist, melta bombs x1

Elites

Sanguinary Priest w/ Jump pack

Sanguinary Priest w/ Jump pack

Troops

Assault Squad x10: 2x meltaguns

Assault Squad x10: 2x meltaguns

Assault Squad x10: 2x meltaguns

Fast Attack

Vanguard Vets x5: Powerfist, melta bombs, infernus, sergeant w/ Lightning Claw (free)

Vangaurd Vets x5: Powerfist, melta bombs, infernus, sergeant w/ Lightning Claw

It was either honor guard or another priest + librarian...right choice?

The HG is fine giving you a free chalice.

I like the latest version very much.

wuestenfux wrote:The HG is fine giving you a free chalice.

Yeah, I think 2 chalices is fine at 1500. I'd make sure to get a Power Fist in each Assault Squad. They add a lot of versatility. Besides, without them you're asking to be charged by a Dreadnought, which they will be almost completely unable to damage. (Krak Grenades don't cut it).

One easy thing to cut is the Infernus Pistols from the VV Squads. Remember, the turn they Deep Strike, they can shoot or assault but not both. It makes the Pistols a waste, especially since you really don't want to rely on them surviving long.

I'd also rather have a fourth Meltagun in the Honor Guard than the Power Fist.

While I'm not a huge fan of Dante, I think you are using him correctly. The "no-scatter" rule is the best thing going for him, in my opinion.

alphaomega4ever wrote:

rodgers37 wrote:
Keeping your list pretty similar, i would say drop Sanguinior, and Dread, add in Dante, a Jump Pack Librarian and Drop podding Furioso, which means you need to find 60 points i think, so take away from one or both Vanguard squads (A couple of men, or upgrades etc, however you can find the points).

Thanks a ton...but due to Dpod assault, wouldnt the lone furioso turn one be picked apart?

@Falco: so antivehicle...in the ASMs? or VVs...

Dante's Inferno Take 2:

HQ

Dante

Honor Guard: melta x3, Powerfist, melta bombs x1

Elites

Sanguinary Priest w/ Jump pack

Sanguinary Priest w/ Jump pack

Troops

Assault Squad x10: 2x meltaguns

Assault Squad x10: 2x meltaguns

Assault Squad x10: 2x meltaguns

Fast Attack

Vanguard Vets x5: Powerfist, melta bombs, infernus, sergeant w/ Lightning Claw (free)

Vangaurd Vets x5: Powerfist, melta bombs, infernus, sergeant w/ Lightning Claw

It was either honor guard or another priest + librarian...right choice?

Thats a nice list, but i'm fairly sure its not 1500 points, you didn't add Vangaurd jump packs (maybe not honour guard ones either....) which does take your list over points :(

rodgers37 wrote:
Thats a nice list, but i'm fairly sure its not 1500 points, you didn't add Vangaurd jump packs (maybe not honour guard ones either....) which does take your list over points :(

Yeeeeah...my bad...realized a bit late.

In that case, I decided to cut 3 guys (and the 2nd melta) from each assault squad (and the infernus pistols from the VVs) and incorporated most of what MrEconomics said...oh and one more question...priests with the ASMs or VVs? im a hack for identical squads so probably VVs, but there is the whole concern about their longer survivability and protecting my scoring units might be worth more...anyhow:

HQ

Dante

Honor Guard: Jump packs, 4x melta

Elites

1x Sanguinary Priest w Jump pack

1x Sanguinary Priest w Jump pack

Troops

7x Assault Squad: 1x meltagun, 1x powerfist. melta bombs

7x Assault Squad: 1x meltagun, 1x powerfist. melta bombs

7x Assault Squad: 1x meltagun, 1x powerfist, melta bombs

Fast Attack

5x Vanguard Vets: Jump packs, powerfist, melta bombs

5x Vanguard Vets: Jump packs, powerfist, melta bombs


had 25 points to blow...either a powerfist in honor guard or 5 sets of melta bombs...preferred the latter but not 100% sure...again, the more comments the better

Dante dosnt contribute very much in this list he takes up 100 extra points that could be spent on more marines

cowpow16 wrote:Dante dosnt contribute very much in this list he takes up 100 extra points that could be spent on more marines

im not a dante fan so now im reconsidering...how does removing meltas from VVs, removing dante and throwing in librarian w jump pack and 2 more ASMs in each squad?

alphaomega4ever wrote:

rodgers37 wrote:
Thats a nice list, but i'm fairly sure its not 1500 points, you didn't add Vangaurd jump packs (maybe not honour guard ones either....) which does take your list over points :(

Yeeeeah...my bad...realized a bit late.

In that case, I decided to cut 3 guys (and the 2nd melta) from each assault squad (and the infernus pistols from the VVs) and incorporated most of what MrEconomics said...oh and one more question...priests with the ASMs or VVs? im a hack for identical squads so probably VVs, but there is the whole concern about their longer survivability and protecting my scoring units might be worth more...anyhow:

HQ

Dante

Honor Guard: Jump packs, 4x melta

Elites

1x Sanguinary Priest w Jump pack

1x Sanguinary Priest w Jump pack

Troops

7x Assault Squad: 1x meltagun, 1x powerfist. melta bombs

7x Assault Squad: 1x meltagun, 1x powerfist. melta bombs

7x Assault Squad: 1x meltagun, 1x powerfist, melta bombs

Fast Attack

5x Vanguard Vets: Jump packs, powerfist, melta bombs

5x Vanguard Vets: Jump packs, powerfist, melta bombs


had 25 points to blow...either a powerfist in honor guard or 5 sets of melta bombs...preferred the latter but not 100% sure...again, the more comments the better

You would have to put the priests with the ASM. If you put them with the VV they wont be able to assault on the turn they DoA. Something in their rule about indepent characters joining the unit negates the assault aspect.

Well a lib with shield and rage with a jp is what I use and he is effective

maybe drop the melta bombs of the vets.

Drop the honor guard because well its 1 more priest but to give em packs is pricey.

So fill out the assault squads melta melt pf or melta plamer pf.

You would probably want 3 priests.

Or

3 dev squads with 4 missile launchers each haha so fun.

But ya over all drop dante and honor guard fill out asm squads add a melta or flamer to each when thy are filled out.

Another priest would be a good idea.

That should give you something that can do some damage.

I'm a pretty strong advocate of special weapons, so in my opinion, an Assault Squad should always have a number of members that's divisible by five.

You've said you're reconsidering Dante, so how about this?

HQ: Librarian with Jump Pack, Shield, Unleash Rage 125
HQ: Honor Guard with 4 Meltaguns 205
EL: Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack 75
TR: 10 Assault Marines with 2 Meltaguns, Power Fist 235
TR: 10 Assault Marines with 2 Meltaguns, Power Fist 235
TR: 10 Assault Marines with 2 Flamers, Lightning Claw 215
FA: 5 Vanguard Veterans with Jump Pack, Power Fist Sarge 175
FA: 5 Vanguard Veterans with Jump Pack, Power Fist Sarge 175

Total: 1440

You have 60 points left to spend on wargear, probably best used on the VV squads. You could also cut the Lightning Claw to take a third Priest.

I wouldnt take a lc and rather take a pw more attacks and at a higher str could kill more potentially.

cowpow16 wrote:I wouldnt take a lc and rather take a pw more attacks and at a higher str could kill more potentially.

I did the math on this awhile back. Without FC, the Lightning Claw is basically across the board better. It does better against everything but GEQ. With FC, the LC and the PW are completely equivalent against MEQ and TEQ, while the PW is significantly better against GEQ. The LC is better in subsequent rounds of combat.

So, I think the LC is better if you can easily model it. It is only worse than a PW against GEQ, who will be slaughtered by the rest of the squad anyway. I guess the difference isn't enough to make me seek out some non-Terminator Lightning Claws, but I'd run them if I had them.

I am just speaking from my experience pw have gotten me more kills than lcs math hammer says lcs are better but I have just had better luck without em.

cowpow16 wrote:I am just speaking from my experience pw have gotten me more kills than lcs math hammer says lcs are better but I have just had better luck without em.

Well, that's the beauty of Mathhammer: It isn't dependant on the limited data of one's own experience. Unless you believe that probability works differently for you, which I doubt.

Oh by all means not arguing with mathhammer just saying my luck has not agreed with mathammer when it comes to lcs.