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Ok, I ran into this one. So I have the heavy weapon metal ork models with rocket launchers, the little metal models with a rocket on a stick basically that have little backpacks with rokkit ammo in them. Old school tankbusta models. Now, I do not have any bomb squig models, and have never had anybody even pose this question to me.

Now when I put orks in a trukk, my ork squads have bases with rims that are subtley color coded to keep the squads from getting mixed up. I put an ork with the base color from the assigned squad in the trukk. and deploy the trukk with the one ork in the back. So there are empty trukks and trukks with a model in the back. Also if a trukk has a significant independent character in it, I put the IC in the trukk so I can clearly declare Ghaz is in this trukk, or baddrukk is in this trukk (or battlewagon as case may be)


So goes like this:

I arrive at local gaming house, and get a pick up game of 1500, just a friendly lets have some fun, space marine player seems like nice guy, so ork player deploys for a fun game and just wants to roll buckets of dice with no real concern for winning or losing

tank busta guys ride in trukk, trukk drives across board

Trukk gets close to tank

turn ends

Space marine guy ignores tankbustas poised in trukk dangerously within range of rhino

turn ends

Orks move, tankbusta trukk stays still

Tankbustas disembark, shoot at rhino..... Ork player releases the bomb squigs......

Space marine player asks "Where are your bomb squig models?"

Ork player grunts orky question grunt equivilent of "HUH?" with perplexed look on face.......

Ork player says "Its a shooting attack, I don't have models for it"

Ork Player gets the drift that space marine player is unhappy having his rhino facing high probabilty of ultimate destruction at the hands of 10 tankbustas shooting from within assault range and is looking to be problamatic about the situation, as he realizes the space marines within are going to get the rhino shot out from under them then assaulted by 10 tankbustas with a Nob. Oooorrrrrrrrr he is just one of those meticulous play as modeled types. Either way, not to bugged about it at the moment.

Ork player concedes to not having bomb squig models. So, not worried, shoots at rhino, pops rhino, disembarks the space marine squad.

Then! Space Marine player gets bent out of shape a little as the ork player assaults the freshly popped space marines that he puts right in front of the tankbustas instead of on the other side of said blown up rhino and hence out of assault range at this moment

Then we have a whole discussion of disembarking and moving and assaulting.... basic rule stuff if you ask me....... and the space marine player is trying hard to not lose this unit.....

Ork player gets a little frustrated as time and time again space marine player is trying to rule trick himself out of bad tactical decisions. Ok so guys army looks kool, all the models have magnetized weapons, his models are painted fabulous! They look cool, with flags, and airbrushing, fancy case for his army, little netbook with program for doing army lists....... but he just doesn't play well, and is a sore sport about it. You set your expectations a little high, if you think 5 space marines are going to survive getting assaulted by 29 slugga shoppa ork boys, and a power klaw weilding nob. He complained I didn't roll my dice right, so I rolled em again for him. Then he just didn't think I should get 3 attacks for having a pistol, and certainly shouldn't get 4 attacks on the charge. So I had to show him the rules for this. I mean you roll 117 dice, you're gonna get 5 wounds, its just math, don't get assaulted by orks it doesn't go well.

SO, one might ask.......

Does one need bomb squig models to use bomb squigs? Do you have to deploy them with the tankbustas and move them around with them? I conceded that I couldn't use bomb squigs because the bomb squig entry in the ork codex on pg 99 says that it is +5 pts per model. So that gave ground to his contestment of the existence of bomb squigs even though listed in my army list "bomb squig (3) +15"

So, I believe that if you are going to use bomb squigs you have to have the models for them.

And how do you handle players that are sore sports.....

To get rid of those sort of players just get your head down and play the gaem, ignore their little jibes and clearly signpost what you are doing so they can't try and slow you down. If they try and play slow just call over someone else and make an example of them.

At a tourney we had a guy who did this, his oppenent is a great guy who was just there to have fun but the first guy despite playing for atleast 6 yaers had to look up stuff like the strength and toughness of marines. At the end of the round they had to call it a draw as they had only reached turn 3. I had him the next round so I just went really quickly through my turn and had reference sheets avaliable so no searching through codecii.

Just beat them at their own game and they learn quickly.

How to handle him?

Buy a metal deff dread of ebay, put it in a sock and hit him in the head.

As for the bomb squigs: They are markers, not models, but you have to have some kind of marker for them. Glueing the picture of a bomb squig to a base should work fine, you could also use gretchin with described rokkit-bagpacks, stikkbombs or any explosives as bomb-"squigs". Or buy a pack of new tank bustas, they contain two bombsquigs already(they also look awesome).
Either way, your opponent is being a weedy git, usually no one would complain about those squigs missing, as long as you noted buying them on your army list. They are in the way half the time anyways, and don't have any impact on the game at all.

The rules concerning them are actually fairly clear. They're for fluff purposes only, if they would ever become a "problem" or effect TLOS for the unit of tankbustas, you remove them. A bomb squig is a shooting attack, the models are just for fun. You can't really do much about people being poor sports. Sounds like your friend never played against orks before, especially since you were very gracious about it. Or at least that is what it sounds like. Hell, rerolling dice for him is a very gentlemanly move, and then he goes and starts debating the philosophy of why orks get 4 attacks on the charge? Just tell him, thats the way the game developers made it, and thats the way it is. He can either accept it and shift his tactics accordingly OR he can get bent and play a different game.

Bomb squig models are only counters, nothing more, or nothing less.

ceramice wrote:Does one need bomb squig models to use bomb squigs?

You should have them, yes. Just like any other wargear in the unit should be modelled.

Do you have to deploy them with the tankbustas and move them around with them?

That's how it works, yes. They're just decorative, as with the various other squigs and 'assistants' that Orks can have... but it's still important to have them there for the purposes of WYSIWYG, just as you should have your power klaw-equipped models actually sporting power klaws.

I conceded that I couldn't use bomb squigs because the bomb squig entry in the ork codex on pg 99 says that it is +5 pts per model. So that gave ground to his contestment of the existence of bomb squigs even though listed in my army list "bomb squig (3) +15"

Not sure what you're getting at here. 3 bomb squigs would be 15 points.

just hitting on that I had 3 of them listed with the correct point count in my army list reviewed for the game.

But I felt that the word model in the block gave creedence to his point of there is no model. hence I conceded the no bomb squig shooting.

Ork codex says squigs are decorative pieces only. I looked it up just now. I would have just put down some little markers and claimed they were decorative squig markers...

take some little gems or rocks and place them around them if it becomes a problem.

Per the codex the models are only decorative, however, how you position them may in fact make them within rage or out of range of a specific vehicle. Gonna have to go read the codex to see if it says you measure to the model or unit.

You measure to the model "shooting" the squig. The work exactly like grot oilers or ammo runts, with no influence on the game, except displaying whether a certain item of wargear has been used or not.

Well, did you state the squad had the Squigs before you started playing, or at least on your first turn? Or did you share your army lists with each other before playing?

If you didn't share lists, or tell him they had the Squigs before you started, I can understand why he would be upset.

As for being a sore loser/player, there's not much you can do other than avoid playing with him.

As an ork player, I would say to meet WYSIWYG you would need a bomb squig model. Many of the ork wargear items are actually bought for the unit so they are not attached to a single model and can't be modeled onto them. It only makes sense to have a 'marker' model.

Not having the model gives opponents a false sense of security going 'oh, I don't have to worry about 3 autohitting str8 attacks from that unit.'

Being decorative doesn't mean you shouldn't have something for WYSIWYG purposes. If your models are not WYSIWYG, then you need to make clear to your opponent that this unit has an upgrade like bombsquigs.

Part of playing the ork codex is modeling 'decorative' wargear with their own model to make it clear to opponents about the number of charges left and if the unit has the upgrade. I see no valid reason not to have bombsquig models, ammo runts, banna wavaz as bosspole/waaaghbanners and attack squigs. All should be models on the table or part of the equipped model.

Sounds like he may not be familiar with orks in general if he is surprised sluggas have 4 attacks on the charge, so not having WYSIWYG units is a further kick in the teeth. I always do what I can to make my models clear as at least if he didn't know what a bombsquig was, they were on the table for him to ask 'what do those do?'

Well on a quick note.... they are certainly not quite "auto hitting" as you have just as much chance hitting the nearest friendly vehicle as you do the nearest enemy vehicle.

I use bottle caps for mine. Granted, it's just until I get around to modelling some bomb-squig models, but they're there. Three little bright plastic cylinders, trailing happily after my Tankbustas...

Honestly, I think it's just useful to have them, simply because then you won't get confused about how many you have left

ceramice wrote:Well on a quick note.... they are certainly not quite "auto hitting" as you have just as much chance hitting the nearest friendly vehicle as you do the nearest enemy vehicle.

Not even close.
1 to hit nearest friendly
2+ to hit nearest enemy

That's pretty close to autohit... (especially for a player used to hitting on 5+!)

Scott-S6 wrote:

ceramice wrote:Well on a quick note.... they are certainly not quite "auto hitting" as you have just as much chance hitting the nearest friendly vehicle as you do the nearest enemy vehicle.

Not even close.
1 to hit nearest friendly
2+ to hit nearest enemy

That's pretty close to autohit... (especially for a player used to hitting on 5+!)

Within 18 ", yes. You make it sound like it's the nearest regardless of how far away.

Penguinmasterofdoom wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

ceramice wrote:Well on a quick note.... they are certainly not quite "auto hitting" as you have just as much chance hitting the nearest friendly vehicle as you do the nearest enemy vehicle.

Not even close.
1 to hit nearest friendly
2+ to hit nearest enemy

That's pretty close to autohit... (especially for a player used to hitting on 5+!)

Within 18 ", yes. You make it sound like it's the nearest regardless of how far away.

And you can shoot at a different target than the rest of the unit. Nitpicking pyramid incoming.

Saying you need to have the models for the bomb squigs is technically right. And, that's best kind of right.

That being said, making a big deal out of it is super, super lame.

It is never the opponent's fault for making a big deal about it.

WYSIWYG formalities are pretty clear - in good tournaments it's RAW too. If it isn't clearly modelled and you neglect to inform your opponent they you're a major league slow if you're surprised when he cocks his eyebrow at you.

I do like the one about the Deff Dredd in the sock, though.

the ork codex actually says they arn't required and can be removed if they are causing problems.


He couldn't require you to have the models because they aren't used as models. they are wargear.


I 2nd buying the old school deffdred and braining him with it.

Grey Templar wrote:the ork codex actually says they arn't required and can be removed if they are causing problems.

It says to move or remove them if they are causing issues (ie: if they're getting in the way). Not that you can choose to simply not have them.

They should be represented in your army just like any other wargear, in order to satisfy WYSIWYG.

I know a few players like that and I have found they quickly run out of people to play against. My friends avoid playing games against them. If they are being awkward about rule queries just keep showing them and you would think they eventually would learn tactics and rules themselves. Just never play against them again, im sure there are many other players at your store.

As for bomb squigs, the codex clearly states they are markers and do not affect gameplay in anyway. They can be moved out the way or removed completely at any point if they are getting in the way of assaults/line of sight etc. There is no need for you to have bomb squig models to use the attack however i would suggest buying a few because they look cool and you can then have the pleasure of running a squig model towards your opponents tank and then blowing it up. I find it gives you a better image of whats happeneing in the game.

GW used to do a pack of 5 as a bitz order thing (collectors section perhaps? )

I have no idea if they still do.

They do.