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Just what is the deal with the whole " there are no wolves on fenris" thing?

Having read the HH books it is a phrase that turns up and often with a wry smile from the character saying it. Are the wolves merely metaphorical or is it just a daft joke the space wolves have?

Hope you can shed some light.

Wolves are not native to the planet mankind brought geno enhanced wolves with them from what I understand. The Author was being quite clever with the "there are no wolves on Fenris" line

1)Writer being a smart arse
2)Pointing to the fact that the wolves on Fenris aren't indeginous
3)Pointing to the fact that the wolves on Fenris have changed a lot compared to their forebears on Terra
4)Possibly pointing to the idea/theory/BS that initiates have changed and mutated into wolves depite this never being in any part of any SW fluff
5)Possibly pointing the idea that the original colonists may have genetically altered their own DNA to adapt to the Fenrisian environment and been changed into wolves over time.

IMO:
1 is entirely possible
2 kind apossible but pointless to mention in a novel
3 See:2
4 BS and not the shooting skill
5 Possible but unlikely since though the wolves are good at surviving on Fenris they aren't much good at anything else.

I assumed it was something to do with the curse of the Wulfen. My Spacewolf fluff knowledge is patchy at best, so I don't really know a lot about that at all.

However, theres a bit in Prospero Burns where a two Fenrisians save the protagonist's life, before all 3 are rescued by a Space Wolf.

Later on, we see one of the Fenrisians again & he's been inducted into the legion. When the protagonist questions him about the other fellow, the Spacewolf says 'hes gone', which we assume means he's dead.

Much later in the book a Rune Priest is showing the protagonist a vision which involves a giant wolf in the woods of Asaheim. He (the Rune Priest) says 'Last time you met him, he was called [name of the Fenrisian who 'died']'.

Which led me to assume something like Purplefood's #4.

Like I say though, my SW fluff is poor, so I could be wrong.

In 'A thousand Sons' when Ahriman says this absent mindely to Wyrdmaker he replies 'This here is ymgir(s?), a fenerisan wolf born and bred there'
But that quote is a recurring motif so,
and btw Wulfen are not Wolves, think more pernamently wolfy Werewolves

My mistake. I wonder if they'll clear this up in another book, I wanted to know more when I read A Thousand Sons.

Likewise, what happened to the remembrancers:

somecallmeJack wrote:I assumed it was something to do with the curse of the Wulfen. My Spacewolf fluff knowledge is patchy at best, so I don't really know a lot about that at all.

However, theres a bit in Prospero Burns where a two Fenrisians save the protagonist's life, before all 3 are rescued by a Space Wolf.

Later on, we see one of the Fenrisians again & he's been inducted into the legion. When the protagonist questions him about the other fellow, the Spacewolf says 'hes gone', which we assume means he's dead.

Much later in the book a Rune Priest is showing the protagonist a vision which involves a giant wolf in the woods of Asaheim. He (the Rune Priest) says 'Last time you met him, he was called [name of the Fenrisian who 'died']'.

Which led me to assume something like Purplefood's #4.

Like I say though, my SW fluff is poor, so I could be wrong.

No, you're quite correct.

That is what the wolves on Fenris are ; "failed" or overly mutated aspirants.

This is, kind of, touched upon and followed up in "Battle of the Fang".

thanks for the replies.

i wasn't sure if it was all just a daft metaphor or something or some kind of joke.

reds8n wrote:

somecallmeJack wrote:I assumed it was something to do with the curse of the Wulfen. My Spacewolf fluff knowledge is patchy at best, so I don't really know a lot about that at all.

However, theres a bit in Prospero Burns where a two Fenrisians save the protagonist's life, before all 3 are rescued by a Space Wolf.

Later on, we see one of the Fenrisians again & he's been inducted into the legion. When the protagonist questions him about the other fellow, the Spacewolf says 'hes gone', which we assume means he's dead.

Much later in the book a Rune Priest is showing the protagonist a vision which involves a giant wolf in the woods of Asaheim. He (the Rune Priest) says 'Last time you met him, he was called [name of the Fenrisian who 'died']'.

Which led me to assume something like Purplefood's #4.

Like I say though, my SW fluff is poor, so I could be wrong.

No, you're quite correct.

That is what the wolves on Fenris are ; "failed" or overly mutated aspirants.

This is, kind of, touched upon and followed up in "Battle of the Fang".

Ooh goody. I didnt think that was out yet.

somecallmeJack wrote:

reds8n wrote:

somecallmeJack wrote:I assumed it was something to do with the curse of the Wulfen. My Spacewolf fluff knowledge is patchy at best, so I don't really know a lot about that at all.

However, theres a bit in Prospero Burns where a two Fenrisians save the protagonist's life, before all 3 are rescued by a Space Wolf.

Later on, we see one of the Fenrisians again & he's been inducted into the legion. When the protagonist questions him about the other fellow, the Spacewolf says 'hes gone', which we assume means he's dead.

Much later in the book a Rune Priest is showing the protagonist a vision which involves a giant wolf in the woods of Asaheim. He (the Rune Priest) says 'Last time you met him, he was called [name of the Fenrisian who 'died']'.

Which led me to assume something like Purplefood's #4.

Like I say though, my SW fluff is poor, so I could be wrong.

No, you're quite correct.

That is what the wolves on Fenris are ; "failed" or overly mutated aspirants.

This is, kind of, touched upon and followed up in "Battle of the Fang".

Ooh goody. I didnt think that was out yet.

I don't think it is is it?
Red gets a hold of them before the rest of us plebs do... not sure how actually...

He has many implanted mechanical devices in all BL writers which activate when they fall alsleep and now at nights they do his bidding, he single handidly controls the outcome fo the heresy

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:He has many implanted mechanical devices in all BL writers which activate when they fall alsleep and now at nights they do his bidding, he single handidly controls the outcome fo the heresy

Why didn't he stop Matt Ward if he can do this to Bl?
Unless... he is Matt Ward... nah.

Its always the person you least suspect.... *shifty eyes*

Could it be possible that some of the wulfen can degrade into wolves? If this is true that would explain the larger thunder wolves.

tigonesskay wrote:Could it be possible that some of the wulfen can degrade into wolves? If this is true that would explain the larger thunder wolves.

That does appear to be the general gist of what they hint at.

I should clarify that whilst this topic is touched upon in Battle of the Fang, that's all it is : it's not a major plot point.

.. well.... it is but perhaps not in the way you'd expect. It's a killer read though, one of the best ever BL books IMO.

Personally, i always felt the "there are no wolves on Fenris" was an implication that they were really warp creatures/unknown creatures. As iirc, it was Magnus originally said it, and he knew a lot more than most.

I was always took it to imply they weren't what they appeared and that in a way were similar to the Tutelaries of the Thousand Sons. (Or even the Watchers in the Dark that accomapany the Dark Angels.)

trub wrote:Personally, i always felt the "there are no wolves on Fenris" was an implication that they were really warp creatures/unknown creatures. As iirc, it was Magnus originally said it, and he knew a lot more than most.

I was always took it to imply they weren't what they appeared and that in a way were similar to the Tutelaries of the Thousand Sons. (Or even the Watchers in the Dark that accomapany the Dark Angels.)

I had a similar idea...

Thank the Emperor, lol. I thought my brain was working differently to everyone else's!

It's actually satirical. There are no wolves in Britain either! There is an idea floating around to reintroduce wolves to Britain so they can control some other animal's population, but sheep farmers in Scotland are against it. Unless of course they receive compensation for any losses their flocks sustain.

It's probably just coincidental or the writer's in question used the idea. A lot of things about Britain obviously make their way into the Warhammer universe.

I really have no idea lore wise though.

purplefood wrote:

somecallmeJack wrote:

reds8n wrote:

somecallmeJack wrote:I assumed it was something to do with the curse of the Wulfen. My Spacewolf fluff knowledge is patchy at best, so I don't really know a lot about that at all.

However, theres a bit in Prospero Burns where a two Fenrisians save the protagonist's life, before all 3 are rescued by a Space Wolf.

Later on, we see one of the Fenrisians again & he's been inducted into the legion. When the protagonist questions him about the other fellow, the Spacewolf says 'hes gone', which we assume means he's dead.

Much later in the book a Rune Priest is showing the protagonist a vision which involves a giant wolf in the woods of Asaheim. He (the Rune Priest) says 'Last time you met him, he was called [name of the Fenrisian who 'died']'.

Which led me to assume something like Purplefood's #4.

Like I say though, my SW fluff is poor, so I could be wrong.

No, you're quite correct.

That is what the wolves on Fenris are ; "failed" or overly mutated aspirants.

This is, kind of, touched upon and followed up in "Battle of the Fang".

Ooh goody. I didnt think that was out yet.

I don't think it is is it?
Red gets a hold of them before the rest of us plebs do... not sure how actually...

Many of the books that he's currently reading he got at Black Library's Open Day, where they have copies for sale months in advance.

Outside of that, I think maybe he's been 'in' to the point where authors will send him advance copies.
Or he bribes them with beer.

I have never received a free BL book from an author in my life.

reds8n wrote: I have never received a free BL book from an author in my life.

Well there you go. He gets them in advance at the Open Days, otherwise he waits like the rest of us.

Fair enough...

Garviel wrote:Just what is the deal with the whole " there are no wolves on fenris" thing?

Having read the HH books it is a phrase that turns up and often with a wry smile from the character saying it. Are the wolves merely metaphorical or is it just a daft joke the space wolves have?

Hope you can shed some light.

Originally? Probably not native to Fenris.

Currently? Very much so alive and well on Fenris. Not the Wulfen (i.e. failed Aspirants), but Fenris big monster sized (re: Wolf Cavalry Sized) ones.

purplefood wrote:4)Possibly pointing to the idea/theory/BS that initiates have changed and mutated into wolves depite this never being in any part of any SW fluff

The initiates can't be the origin of the wolves on Fenris because the wolves pre-date Russ. After all, the wolves discovered the primarch when he arrived on the planet.

My own speculation has always been that the planet itself naturally evolved anti-Warp defenses (possibly in response to an earlier Warp incursion). This would explain why the Space Wolves have always been resistant to mutation (above and beyond that caused by their own geneseed). The wolves are a part of that, and Ahriman somehow recognized what they truly were (but didn't share the information with anyone for fear that someone else would ruin it all before he could properly research the world).

Eumerin wrote:

purplefood wrote:4)Possibly pointing to the idea/theory/BS that initiates have changed and mutated into wolves depite this never being in any part of any SW fluff

The initiates can't be the origin of the wolves on Fenris because the wolves pre-date Russ. After all, the wolves discovered the primarch when he arrived on the planet.

My own speculation has always been that the planet itself naturally evolved anti-Warp defenses (possibly in response to an earlier Warp incursion). This would explain why the Space Wolves have always been resistant to mutation (above and beyond that caused by their own geneseed). The wolves are a part of that, and Ahriman somehow recognized what they truly were (but didn't share the information with anyone for fear that someone else would ruin it all before he could properly research the world).

I agree with you on that point...
As for the rest, i kind ahave my own theory that is a touch far fetched and makes me sound craxy...

As I understand it, from my completely off-hand memories of Thousand Sons, the following series of "facts" are hinted at.

Fenris is an incredibly hostile death world, such that unmodified humans would have trouble even surviving on it without advanced survival gear, yet primitive humans live there.

Thus, the colonists must have been genetically modified to allow them to survive on this world, before their civilization relapsed to such a primitive level.

There's no reason why colonists would have spent the time and effort to import (and even improve) a Terran predator like the wolf, given that Fenris already has tons of native predators. Why make the world HARDER to survive?

The "Canis Helix" is unique to the Space Wolves, and the Space Wolves only recruit from Fenris. Thus, the Canis Helix could easily be a genetic modification of the human stock, rather than a disruption to the geneseed of Leman Russ.

The "wolves" of Fenris could be genetically corrupted Fenrisians, both "normal" wolf-like creatures emerging from native Fenrisians, and the massive wolf-like predators, arising from Space Wolves, each expressing the degraded/corrupted/unpredictable Canis Helix.


Again, that's all from memory of Thousand Sons, so it might be wrong. However, it would be consistent with most of the stories. There would be "wolves" on Fenris before Leman Russ arrived (the mutated Fenrisians). There would be "no wolves on Fenris" (no actual Terran wolves), consistent with that statement in Thousand Sons. There would be a huge wolf-like creature which once was a Fenrisian Aspirant, consistent with the events of Prospero Burns.

Thus, both 4 & 5 of purplefood's ideas would be correct. There are strains of wolf-like predators which emerge from the altered Fenrisians, and other wolf-like creatures which result from failed Aspirants, precisely because of their Fenrisian genetic heritage.

Wulfen don't turn into Wolves.
Terran Wolves were with the settlers that found Fenris, the Wolves adapted to the enivronment.
The original settlers lived on Asaheim in caves these became irradiated and Russ told them they had to move to the islands. They have been there ever since.

Wulfen don't turn into Wolves.

No, they do.



And there were no wolves on Fenris prior to the arrival of the Space Marines/the Imperium, this point is made several times in Prospero Burns.

It would seem the old story about Russ being raised by Wolves has been retconned into being merely a myth, part of his mystique. Possibly even one he cultivates to enhance his "Dumb savage" act he maintains to trick and fool his opponents. I assume the other reason that it's been dropped from the background is that aside from making him too similar to The Lion it also throws an unneeded bit of Roman mythology into the mix and the Wolves work better with the more Nordic theme alone.

The Fenrisian natives aren't gene enhanced or altered any more so than those of Catachan, it's just that centuries of selective evolution have meant that those who do survive are pretty tough. As are all space marine recruits of course.

The Canis Helix is indeed unique to the Space Wolves....

..well... their succcessor chapter had it as well of course but...


it's fair to say it is both their blessing and their curse.

reds8n wrote:

Wulfen don't turn into Wolves.

No, they do.



And there were no wolves on Fenris prior to the arrival of the Space Marines/the Imperium, this point is made several times in Prospero Burns.

It would seem the old story about Russ being raised by Wolves has been retconned into being merely a myth, part of his mystique. Possibly even one he cultivates to enhance his "Dumb savage" act he maintains to trick and fool his opponents. I assume the other reason that it's been dropped from the background is that aside from making him too similar to The Lion it also throws an unneeded bit of Roman mythology into the mix and the Wolves work better with the more Nordic theme alone.

The Fenrisian natives aren't gene enhanced or altered any more so than those of Catachan, it's just that centuries of selective evolution have meant that those who do survive are pretty tough. As are all space marine recruits of course.

The Canis Helix is indeed unique to the Space Wolves....

..well... their succcessor chapter had it as well of course but...


it's fair to say it is both their blessing and their curse.

What evidence is there for that?
And, it says in the SW novels that during the 'Great Diaspora' Wolves ended up on Fenris, long befre the IoM got there.