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Now my dwarf are coming along well I figured I would try out Ogre Kingdoms. However I would like to put a few questions out there and get a few honest opinions from people with more experience fighting with this force. Thanks all in advance for reading this.

1. Bulls. I see arguments going back and forth about the merits of buying Iron-fists versus bulking out units of bare bulls. So that the units are bigger and can absorb more losses before they hit combat. But I'm undecided as to what way to go.

2. Big names. Every time I see the giantbreaker big name I cant help but be tempted to write a list revolving around a combat character with this. Is the compulsory slavegiant worth this with the increasing amount of large monsters in recent army book releases it might get to fight?

3. Tyrant/ bruiser builds. Is the Tenderiser the best thing to aim for? Or is a survival build with charmed shield and Cathayan Longsword a viable build to go for? Or what other builds for them seem points efficient for what they give you?

Finally any other ideas or strategies your willing to share on how ogres should be fielded are welcome. As well as fun themes you've seen for modelling units if any.

I like Slavegiants. Cost-wise they seem to be pretty close to the newest books, maybe could use a FEW points less.

I think you need a butcher. Not just for gutt magic, but dispels.

As for Tyrant/Bruiser builds, go with what you enjoy. You can certainly make them incredibly hard to kill. Like the BRB can give you 4+ ward and 2+ armor for 90 then a Cathayan for 10 and you'd be at 7 WS 5I. Also look at the greyback pelt.

For pure offense, the BRB has a lot. Sword of Bloodshed is +3A for 60. Tenderiser is going to overkill a lot of times.

Thats what I was wondering about the tenderiser. Is it too much overkill ( as crazy as that may sound )? I agree I like the modelling opportunities for the cathayan longsword. And I'll definitely be having butchers/salughtermasters. With the stacking gut magic theres little reason not to! Thanks Rustfield.

Well the D3 wounds of the Tenderiser is wasted when fighting 1 wound creatures, as they only got 1 wound. And it gives you always strikes last from a Great Weapon. Likewise, when fighting monsters and stuff, you may have enough killy power to take them out without D3, so you'll want to attack first. So having an extra 3 attacks from the BRB sword would help vs. monsters and rank-and-file Core.

1) Bulls. Iron fists work, so do just basic clubs. Take what you want. It isn't a huge difference in cost vs performance either way.

2) Giant Breaker also means that you may not refuse a challenge or flee a charge. While neither of those comes up often, losing the option shouldn't be ignored.
The slave giant is alright, but please don't throw it at other monsters. It does quite poorly against big things.

3) Tyrant builds? Worried about monsters? Try Beastkiller, brace of handguns, longsword, and potion of strength; 4+ ward armor, 2+ ward vs flaming talisman.
You get either 6 S5, or the longsword; with the strength, you'll be carving through any monster, and doing double wounds, thanks to the beast killer.


And, don't forget the lowly Gnoblar!
A block of 80 (160 points), is a great way to anchor a flank.

-Matt

I reccomend you join the Ogre Stronghold.

the oldest and best ogre kingdoms website.

http://www.ogrestronghold.com/


as for your questions.



in 8th,

Bulls are where its at. more bulls are what you want. large blocks of 9-12 or HUGE blocks of 18+


Bignames: Mawseeker is the best. 10 points for +1T. Stupidity is actually advantagous as it makes the unit he is in Immune to Psycology. a BSB also makes failing the test highily unlikely.


some common Tyrant Builds:

Unkillable tyrant(my favorite): Trickster's Helm, Mawseeker, HA, Potion of Healing, CLS(Cathayen Long Sword) or GW or 5 point magic weapon. T6 and enemies must reroll to wound him and he has the Healing potion for when he does take wounds.

Tincan tyrant: Armor of Silvered Steel, Wyrdstone necklace, 35 point weapon of choice.

Ogre Magic Ninja whaat???: Greyback Pelt, Glittering Scales, Fencer's Blades. no one hits him on better then 6s. the problem is that he has almost no protection aside from that.(cheaper version uses a CLS instead of the Fencer's Blades and can buy the Wyrdstone necklace for a 5+ ward)

Grey Templar wrote:

Bignames: Mawseeker is the best. 10 points for +1T. Stupidity is actually advantagous as it makes the unit he is in Immune to Psycology. a BSB also makes failing the test highily unlikely.

Is that correct? The rule in the BRB reads, "Models that are subject to Stupidity are also Immune to Psycology".

that quote is the clincher on this one.

Stupidity rule says "Models that are subject to Stupidity are also Immune to Psycology"

Stupidity also says "a unit which contains one or more Stupid models must test to see if they overcome their stupidity..."


the ItP part says "Subject to Stupidity"


I say that if the entire unit is forced to take the stupidity test then they are "Subject" to Stupidity and enjoy the benifits and drawbacks.

That is really good to know.

It is until at a critical moment you fail your stupid test and it causes you to lose!

thats why you have a BSB around. rerolling Ld 9 has a 1.2% chance of failing.

Ld10 if you have the Standard of Discipline with your General.

Thanks for the ideas all! Its given me alot to think about with how to field/model them. I think Ill just go for ogres with clubs.

Lexx wrote:1. Bulls. I see arguments going back and forth about the merits of buying Iron-fists versus bulking out units of bare bulls. So that the units are bigger and can absorb more losses before they hit combat. But I'm undecided as to what way to go.

I prefer IF's after much testing. Yes they're a bit over priced and you lose the extra armor mod from the the Ogre Clubs, but the 6+ ward in CC is worth it.

2. Big names. Every time I see the giantbreaker big name I cant help but be tempted to write a list revolving around a combat character with this. Is the compulsory slavegiant worth this with the increasing amount of large monsters in recent army book releases it might get to fight?

I've yet to be able to afford a Big Name on any of my characters. See next.

3. Tyrant/ bruiser builds. Is the Tenderiser the best thing to aim for? Or is a survival build with charmed shield and Cathayan Longsword a viable build to go for? Or what other builds for them seem points efficient for what they give you?

My favorite build is Armor of Destiny, Tenderizer, 2 Sword Gnoblars, 1 Luck Gnoblar. The Tenderizer might be over kill, but in a duel, this is exactly what you're looking for. I often max out the overkill during a duel usually resulting in a CR of 8 (3 average wounds on a lord, +5 overkill after rolling the extra D3's for the rest of the wounds caused).

Finally any other ideas or strategies your willing to share on how ogres should be fielded are welcome. As well as fun themes you've seen for modelling units if any.

You'll see a lot of people advising you to run a deathstar list, and they're right: it's brutal. My advice is to not run a deathstar. Instead, run two super star destroyers. Usually a large horde bulls unit, backed up by a large Ironguts unit, with a flaming banner to take care of Hydra's, HPA's, etc.

you should try mawseeker.

its cheap and effective. Stupidity is great because it makes the unit he joins Immune to Psycology.

As far as a Tyrant's weapons go, I think that, as a general rule, a great weapon, Cathayan Longsword, or the Tenderizer are the optimum choices. The first makes you S7, which is often enough to get the job done, and is super cheap. The second is more all-around awesome, if slightly more expensive. The third is for those builds where you want to be as choppy as possible.

I think that a Tyrant made to survive is probably the most effective; the mass of his unit will probably be enough to cut down whatever needs to be. Mawseeker, Trickster's Helm, Healing Potion/5+ Ward, and a great weapon lead to a pretty damn durable general, and his S7 attacks aren't exactly lack-luster.

As far as overall army builds go, I'll say this: the more common Ogre Deathstars become, the more common Death Wizards with Power Scrolls for super-Purple Suns will become as well.
All-in-all, it's a brutally effective build, though I consider it pretty boring; a point-and-click army. The fact that it works so well is proof of a few flaws in 8th edition, in my humble opinion.

I can't remember who posted it, but a semi-recent post pointed out, quite correctly, that you Don't Want To Get Bored.

This isn't a card game where you can just reshuffle your deck if you get tired of a strategy. You're looking at a real investment of time and money. If winning is the only thing that concerns you, cool. But if you want to not get bored, I think you need units where you can try different strategies and swap things around. Otherwise you will get tired of 1) group up 2) walk up 3) smack up 4) die-or-win

DukeRustfield wrote:I can't remember who posted it, but a semi-recent post pointed out, quite correctly, that you Don't Want To Get Bored.

This isn't a card game where you can just reshuffle your deck if you get tired of a strategy. You're looking at a real investment of time and money. If winning is the only thing that concerns you, cool. But if you want to not get bored, I think you need units where you can try different strategies and swap things around. Otherwise you will get tired of 1) group up 2) walk up 3) smack up 4) die-or-win

You can always break up those ogre big blocks into 6 small blocks, or 3 small blocks and 9 tiny units. Ogre MSU can still work if you can get to the flanks. Especially with the ability to bring slaughter masters in smaller games (~2000 points).



-Matt

Thanks again all for the added ideas. I think ill go with clubs and a large unit for bulls that can split up should I want to mix things up a bit. Now to look into cathayan longsowrd and charmed shield conversions that aren't too hard to pull off and look good.

I am a big fan of the IF but as a 2nd CCW rather than a sheild. But thats mostly because I am used to Skeletons and large blocks of slaves.

yup, the additional attack is good against skellies.


I like the IF for the utility of either 6+ armor/6+ ward or +1A.

its 1 point more then an extra hand weapon. if you are already spending the points, might as well go that much further.

Grey Templar wrote:thats why you have a BSB around. rerolling Ld 9 has a 1.2% chance of failing.

2.7%, actually.

hmmm, you are right.

where did 1.2% come from???

Grey Templar wrote:hmmm, you are right.

where did 1.2% come from???

Cold Blooded maybe?

-Matt

thats it

I thought the Ogre FAQ mentioned they keep their clubs, so wouldn't they still get the -1 Armour? And why wouldn't they have two combat weapons thus giving them an extra attack? Sorry for the noobness.

the Club specifically states that it loses the -1 to armor if used with another weapon.


but, because an ogre that buys and Ironfist and extra hand weapon retains his ogre club he has some options.


he can use the Ironfist and extra hand weapon to either attack with 3 attacks, a 6+ armor, and a 6+ ward save OR attack with 4 attacks.

he can also choose to not use the Ironfist and extra hand weapon and use just his ogre club instead for 3 attacks with -1 to armor.

So in the FAQ when it says:

Q. When a unit of Ogre Bulls is equipped with hand weapons and
Ironfists, do they retain their Ogre Clubs? (p29)
A. Yes.

Does this just mean that they still have their Ogre club if you EQUIP them with Ironfists OR that if you use the Ironfist with the Ogre club they retain the -1 armour (so they get a 6+as 6+ward and -1 to armour) ?

that clarifies that they do indeed have an Ironfist, a extra hand weapon, and their Ogre club at the same time. which allows them to do what I said earlier.

they don't retain the -1 to armor when using the Ironfist or Extra hand weapon because the Ogre Clubs rules say so and the FAQ doesn't address that.

Aha that diffuses my head of much confusion.. Thanks Templar

I just recently acquired an Ogre Kingdoms lot. It consists of:

1 Tyrant - Converted from bits/bodies, Bare Plastic
13 Bulls - 7 Primed Black, 3 with some brown paint, 3 partial paint
11 Ironguts - 4 Primed Black, 7 with some brown paint
8 Lead Belchers - 3 Primed Black, 5 with some brown paint
5 Ogres on Sprue - plenty of bits to go either Bulls or Ironguts
24 Gnoblers - on sprue
28 Gnoblers - Bare Plastic - mix of pack Gnoblers, lookout Gnoblers, and regular Gnoblers
1 Hunter - has both Sabretusks, primed black but could use a recoat
1 Giant - Assembled, Bare Plastic
4 Gnobler Trappers - bare metal
2 Yhetees - Stripped metal

Then I also purchased the Ogre King guy off of ebay 2 weeks ago so I got him. Any ideas, suggestions, tactics I should look into? I apologize if I am thread jacking but I literally came here to start a thread on this and saw this post so I decided instead of creating a new one I would just add to it. I also purchased a Ninja Man Eater as well. Should I get a scrap launcher? I am a long time Lizardmen player and that has been my only Army in Fantasy since 4th edition. So, Ogres are very new to me.