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2017/03/05 05:48:53
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
That's why you have 2 Tankhammers (which each do, what, 3 or 4 Strength 10 hits apiece? That'll average about 4 hull points on AV 14, won't it?) and a Nob with a Powerklaw as well.
GENERATION 8: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.
If yer an Ork, why dont ya WAAAGH!!
M.A.V.- if you liked ChromeHounds, drop by the site and give it a go. Or check out my M.A.V. Oneshots videos on YouTube!
2017/03/05 05:54:10
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Anvildude wrote: That's why you have 2 Tankhammers (which each do, what, 3 or 4 Strength 10 hits apiece? That'll average about 4 hull points on AV 14, won't it?) and a Nob with a Powerklaw as well.
Tankhammers hit at S8 AP3. They're actually not that great against land raiders. Our best bet in melee against a LR is normally a Warboss with a power klaw since he has enough weight of attacks and the magic number of S10. That or you can just ignore it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/05 05:54:53
2017/03/05 06:03:39
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
S8. A tankbusta with tank hammer is a 28 point model. The two of them are almost as much as another squad of tankbustas while subtracting two rokkits from the unit you did take.
tankbustas- 2x tankhammer + nob + pk 130
2x5 tankbustas 130
generally the increased range, target saturation, and volume of shots is much more valuable.
if yo want anti-armour cc then try
3 MANz- Killsaws 130
Which would be much more effective then the tankhammer/pk setup
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/03/05 06:11:38
2017/03/05 08:10:32
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Oh yeah... new edition. Used to be just, what, 10 extra points for the hammer, and it was a Str10 AP- weapon. Which was honestly nicer against tanks than the rokket profile.
GENERATION 8: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.
If yer an Ork, why dont ya WAAAGH!!
M.A.V.- if you liked ChromeHounds, drop by the site and give it a go. Or check out my M.A.V. Oneshots videos on YouTube!
2017/03/05 08:19:01
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Tankhammers? Please no! Just keep the tankbustas a shooty unit that can charge if a vehicle needs to be stripped by a single HP. Maybe if you assault a vehicle with 2 units of boyz it's ok to let the tankbustas join the party too but not if they are alone in trying to wreck a vehicle in close combat.
You have tons of pks to assault vehicles, that's why I'd also avoid any nob+pk options on the tankbustas.
2017/03/05 18:55:10
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
ministar set up. majority t6, rerollable jink, los rolls.
If you take two cc busta units, you would be looking at this:
-3x5 tankbustas,bomb squig, trukk, ram, rokkit
This is all mostly regarding MSU min/max range spam which is en vogue. Casual gaming you might not notice a difference.
If I were to run CC bustas, I'd just go 2x hammers, 3x squigs. That way every rokkit gets a reroll, and you can cc if you want. Idk if the nob is really worth it in this case, they add survivability and staying power but the bustas are a glass cannon that you should write off if somebody even looks at them funny, according to MSU philosophy.
2017/03/06 09:15:15
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
160 points is exactly a unit of meganobz in a trukk without killsaws, and they're both a single elite choice with the same dedicated transport, so if you can fit the tankbustas you certainly can fit the MANZ in your list
They surely wreck a vehicle better than 5 tankbustas with 2 hammers, especially if you invest 10 more points for a pair of killsaws, and they're also way more resilient. Not to mention that they can kill many other things rather than vehicles.
I'd completely avoid that CC loadout for tankbustas, they should fire from their vehicle. Occasionally they can join an assault if other units have successfully charged a vehicle and a single melta bomb can make the difference.
But for that amount of points there are several units and combinations of them that are certainly more efficient against vehicles in the shooting phase and/or in close combat.
2017/03/06 11:53:35
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
To me, it starts to look like Tankbustas have 0 place in our lists right now. They lack the versatility of Koptas, the durability/range/multiple weapon profiles of Kannon, the range and turn one capabilities of Lootas, and couldn't scratch the work Meganobz can do in CC with one Melta Bomb. Tankbusta's have short range, a reliance on an exploding trukkbomb for anything resembling mobility, and no durability whatsoever. They are just cheap enough to flood the bored with and hope nobody shoots them before they get a shot first, in anything but a Blitz Brigade. The only role they had as a suicide 5 melta delivery squad has been FAQ'd into uselessness that is outdone by obviously superior meganobz.
Hold my beer while I break the rokkit launchas off my tankbustas in hopes that I can still make anything more useful --> like a slugga choppa boy.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Since MSU is in Vogue, let me bring up another thought I had the other day. I was looking over how to actually make the 'Meh-Waaagh Band' formation's 6 Ork Boy squads more useful and it hit me that an Ork with the gubbinz could take a seemingly limitless amount of Mek Gunz and then Warbuggies and flood the bored with enough gak that nobody can hope to shoot it all.
Yes Warbuggies, cheapcheapcheap and fast overlooked unit with a big footprint to throw on forward objectives.
And you know what else is crazy here? Those warbuggies don't require much time to move, and the mek gunz are just going to skip straight to firing, yeah you'll still have to move 60 Ork Boyz but that doensn't take to long when you are just trying to put them between anything that might threaten your mek gun army of defensive objective keepers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/06 12:14:50
I am the kinda ork that takes his own washing machine apart, puts new bearings in it, then puts it back together, and it still works.
2017/03/06 12:29:09
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Rismonite wrote: To me, it starts to look like Tankbustas have 0 place in our lists right now. They lack the versatility of Koptas, the durability/range/multiple weapon profiles of Kannon, the range and turn one capabilities of Lootas, and couldn't scratch the work Meganobz can do in CC with one Melta Bomb. Tankbusta's have short range, a reliance on an exploding trukkbomb for anything resembling mobility, and no durability whatsoever. They are just cheap enough to flood the bored with and hope nobody shoots them before they get a shot first, in anything but a Blitz Brigade. The only role they had as a suicide 5 melta delivery squad has been FAQ'd into uselessness that is outdone by obviously superior meganobz.
Hold my beer while I break the rokkit launchas off my tankbustas in hopes that I can still make anything more useful --> like a slugga choppa boy.
I disagree, I consider tankbustas more useful than lootas, deffkoptas and kannons.
Deffkoptas are good but only in solo units, the Ld7 can make a 150 points unit useless with a couple of casualities or a 120 one with a single kopta down. That's why you won't have a ton of shooting with them, as typically use just a few koptas. Their TL rokkit is a nice add, but not the main reason you may want deffkoptas in the game.
Kannons are nice but other mek gunz are way more useful, a battery of them is only 5 shots and with the same amount of points you can get many more wounds using KMKs or lobbas against infantries. Against vehicles they have the same potential than tankbustas (they're BS3 and got ammo runts, tankbustas have bomb squigs though), but no tankhunter and melta bomb. Kannons also struggle to get a room in any list as they're an heavy support choice, while tankbustas only have meganobz that compete with them and typically you just take a single unit of manz or their formation.
Lootas are nice too but still boyz with t-shirt saves and ld7 so they work only in min units. Which means that your're forced to go double cad or to take only lootas as heavy support choices or just a little number of shots if you need other heavy support choices. Which are also s7 with no tankhunter.
Tankbustas also have another purpose, they add trukks to your trukk spam list. For just 15 points they can get 3 one use shots that hit on 2s and get 2 points if they achieve first blood. With 2-3 min units (230 or 345 points) with bomb squigs it's not impossible to get it. They also have a good synergy with the blitz brigade formation, while lootas carrying a heavy weapon need to stay where they are the entire game and they're wasted in a vehicle. I like them and sometimes I bring lootas in my lists but I think tankbustas are better. IMHO they're among best orks units.
Warbuggies are underrated though, an outflanking unit of 5 is a nice add for 125 points and has good synergy with a trukks spam list as it adds 10 more AV10 HP.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/06 12:31:18
2017/03/06 14:56:37
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Rismonite wrote: To me, it starts to look like Tankbustas have 0 place in our lists right now. They lack the versatility of Koptas, the durability/range/multiple weapon profiles of Kannon, the range and turn one capabilities of Lootas, and couldn't scratch the work Meganobz can do in CC with one Melta Bomb. Tankbusta's have short range, a reliance on an exploding trukkbomb for anything resembling mobility, and no durability whatsoever. They are just cheap enough to flood the bored with and hope nobody shoots them before they get a shot first, in anything but a Blitz Brigade. The only role they had as a suicide 5 melta delivery squad has been FAQ'd into uselessness that is outdone by obviously superior meganobz.
Hold my beer while I break the rokkit launchas off my tankbustas in hopes that I can still make anything more useful --> like a slugga choppa boy.
Not true! They are very valuable vs MEQs, any type of av, and wraithknights. Tankhunter, ap3, s8, bomb squigs, transport options, and cheap point cost make them easy to spam.
Here are my numbers, reposted from a few pages ago, but updated to include kannons and tl kopta rokkits.
Ork Dakka Offensive Output and Composition Efficiency
Spoiler:
How to use the list -
The first number indicates how many wounds will be inflicted per round of shots after saves for a given target. It's kinda a mouthful, but if you play FPS games, it's kinda analogous to kill:death ratio. Use this to determine target priority. The actual number isn't as important as remembering the general order and any huge drop offs between weapons. For example, vs AV11,the deff kopta tl rokkit launcha will on average cause more damage than anything else. If your kopta has a choice, it should take the shot at the AV11 over a few other choices. So you might think, hey those are gonna be my light vehicle counter and start loading up on koptas over say tankbustas or lootas. But wait! The second number is wounds per turn per point. Now you'll notice the kopta's value is half that of the top two choices. This means you would be spending twice the points to accomplish the same task. You could be accomplishing two tasks instead, ya dig?
WPT- Wounds Per Turn, PP- Per Point, <tank hunter>, (twin linked), HPT-Hullpoints per turn (glance/pen equality.)
I need to develop a third stat to calculate overkill wastage essentially. You see how the anti-armour weaponry has static values across most of the infantry? Some would be a bigger waste of points than others. Basically the inverse of the WPT stat, like Overkill Per Turn.
2017/03/06 15:02:20
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Myself, I like the buggies. Unlike Koptas I can bring a squad of buggies loaded with tl rokkits. Heavy flamers are nice too after your trukks tank shokk infantry into a nice tight cluster. If you want a Mad Max Army the buggies need to be in there. Final note: give at least one of them wartrakks to reroll dangerous terrain tests as you capture an objective.
4017/03/06 15:17:31
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
ProwlerPC wrote: Myself, I like the buggies. Unlike Koptas I can bring a squad of buggies loaded with tl rokkits. Heavy flamers are nice too after your trukks tank shokk infantry into a nice tight cluster. If you want a Mad Max Army the buggies need to be in there. Final note: give at least one of them wartrakks to reroll dangerous terrain tests as you capture an objective.
What? Defkoptas have twin-linked rokkits. Even modeled on the AoBR deffkoptas.
Not arguing with the utility of tankshocking into burna range... I'll have to remember that with my burna-wagon.
My Project Blog: Necrons, Orks, Sisters, Blood Angels, and X-Wing "
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How it got into my pajamas, I'll never know." Groucho Marx
~A grammatically correct sentence can have multiple, valid interpretations.
Arguing over the facts is the lowest form of debate.
2017/03/06 17:45:38
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
What? Defkoptas have twin-linked rokkits. Even modeled on the AoBR deffkoptas.
You're right but larger units of koptas are not gonna work, they usually run solo. 5 buggies with rokkits are 25 points cheaper than 5 koptas with rokkits and way more effective. If you want a fast unit with 5 TL rokkits buggies are a nice option.
2017/03/06 18:02:10
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Correct. Due to leadership issues Deffkopta skwads are highly inadvisable and are best run solo. If you need to bring more rokkits that are twin linked then buggies are the way to go as they don't suffer leadership issues and their fast profile ensures they aren't snap shooting their rokkits. This same fast profile allows skorchas to not be forced to snap shoot and thus not shoot making them more reliable then burnas in a trukk...not to mention they are heavy flamers.
2017/03/08 12:04:37
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Ork Dakka Offensive Output and Composition Efficiency
Spoiler:
How to use the list -
The first number indicates how many wounds will be inflicted per round of shots after saves for a given target. It's kinda a mouthful, but if you play FPS games, it's kinda analogous to kill:death ratio. Use this to determine target priority. The actual number isn't as important as remembering the general order and any huge drop offs between weapons. For example, vs AV11,the deff kopta tl rokkit launcha will on average cause more damage than anything else. If your kopta has a choice, it should take the shot at the AV11 over a few other choices. So you might think, hey those are gonna be my light vehicle counter and start loading up on koptas over say tankbustas or lootas. But wait! The second number is wounds per turn per point. Now you'll notice the kopta's value is half that of the top two choices. This means you would be spending twice the points to accomplish the same task. You could be accomplishing two tasks instead, ya dig?
WPT- Wounds Per Turn, PP- Per Point, <tank hunter>, (twin linked), HPT-Hullpoints per turn (glance/pen equality.)
I need to develop a third stat to calculate overkill wastage essentially. You see how the anti-armour weaponry has static values across most of the infantry? Some would be a bigger waste of points than others. Basically the inverse of the WPT stat, like Overkill Per Turn.
This is absolutely fantastic! You're a saint. I've got it saved for future reference, this will be a useful tool for us all!
2017/03/07 14:28:54
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
My vote is either max 5 Ork naked mobs of TankBustas possibly multiple CAD OR 2 X 15 with PK Nob (still gets Tank Hunter on PK attacks), no Tank Hammers ever, with PainBoy in the two Blitz Brigade four Rokkit Plus Kannon Battlewagons that are NOT occupied by the BullyBoyz each of which 2 out of 5 have Killsaws.
Now that's a run on sentence! The second option gets you 55 Rokkits first turn, 30 of which have Tank Hunter. Other five naked TankBustas on foot can hide all sorts of places. Go to ground for a Turn and soak up a few shots. 3-6 mobs of those can annoy and frustrate an opponent who is hopefully distracted by bigger threats.
Fighting crime in a future time!
2017/03/07 16:27:49
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Tankbustas is the one unit that I advocate not buying the expensive pk for the nob upgrade. A tankhammer costs 15 pts to give one of the Boyz S8 attacks at WS4. Upgrading a Boy to a nob is 10 pts and an additional 25 pts for the pk who is a character that can be challenged. I'd rather give the nob the 5 pt big choppa and toss a tankhammer on a boy.
Min squad of Tankbustas with a nob and pk is 100 pts. Min squad of Tankbustas with one tankhammer and a nob with big choppy is 90 pts. 5 pts each for boss pole and squig bombs are auto take. Let the tankhammer boy use squigs as shooting attack and now on the charge you have 1 nob doing 4 S7 attacks, a boy doing 3 S8 attacks and one boy using a melta bomb all with Tank Hunter rule. That's more killy power for 10 pts less.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/07 16:28:46
2017/03/07 17:48:33
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
I'd rather give them a trukk than upgrading one of a min squad as a nob with pk. 5 tankbustas with trukk + ram is 100 points too. I always include 3 bomb squigs each unless I struggle with points.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/07 17:49:31
2017/03/07 21:22:46
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Min squad of Tankbustas with one tankhammer and a nob with big choppy is 90 pts. 5 pts each for boss pole and squig bombs are auto take. Let the tankhammer boy use squigs as shooting attack and now on the charge you have 1 nob doing 4 S7 attacks, a boy doing 3 S8 attacks and one boy using a melta bomb all with Tank Hunter rule. That's more killy power for 10 pts less.
This is how I run my tankbustas when they aren't riding around in a battlewagon from the Blitzwagon detachment. That battlewagon also gets boarding planks.
Not saying it's the best... just saying that's how I roll.
My Project Blog: Necrons, Orks, Sisters, Blood Angels, and X-Wing "
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How it got into my pajamas, I'll never know." Groucho Marx
~A grammatically correct sentence can have multiple, valid interpretations.
Arguing over the facts is the lowest form of debate.
2017/03/08 01:56:20
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
ProwlerPC wrote: Min squad of Tankbustas with one tankhammer and a nob with big choppy is 90 pts. 5 pts each for boss pole and squig bombs are auto take. Let the tankhammer boy use squigs as shooting attack and now on the charge you have 1 nob doing 4 S7 attacks, a boy doing 3 S8 attacks and one boy using a melta bomb all with Tank Hunter rule. That's more killy power for 10 pts less.
Interesting take.
5 naked bustas in a trukk w/ ram is 100 pts
5 bustas w/ a tankhammer and including a BCBP nob in a trukk w/ ram is 135 pts (and you need bomb squigs)
I don't know, a lot more killy in close combat but 35% more expensive. A bit more resilient though. I often play against skimmers so bomb squigs aren't auto-include for me...
Sad thing is we wouldn't have this conversation if GW didn't FAQ the grenades in close combat...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/08 14:04:05
So there's always some debate about ork ranged infantry. Bustas or Lootas? Flashgitz at all? I remain steadfast that there's a bigger picture, so here it is. It compares shoota boyz to big shoota boyz, bikers to lootas, flashgitz to bustas. WPT is the amount of wounds per turn you can expect the full amount of shots to get. PP is how many points those wounds cost you. Generally when people reccomend flashgitz, they totally forget PP (or Per Point). Paranthesis will refer to TL weapons, and greater/lesser than will represent tank hunter. The weapon that causes the most wounds per turn per point per enemy will be highlighted. GEQ is T3 5+, CEQ is T3 4+. (AM w/ Carapace, Some Eldar Aspect Warriors.)
Vs AV12
Deffgun - 0.22 [0.016]
Rokkit - <0.25> [0.019]
Vs AV 13
Deffgun - 0.11 [0.008]
Rokkit - <0.19> [0.015]
Vs AV 14
Rokkit - <0.10> [0.005]
You can see the issue with snazzgunz. May seem to be effective on the table but when you look at the bigger picture you handicap the rest of your force. It's never the worst option, unless you're targeting a vehicle, but they're solidly bottom tier. I could expand on this if there's interest, I thought about including Necrons and MEQ/GEC bikers. I could try an overall score too, but I'd have to weigh the categories, they aren't all as common as the other.
E: Discovered a small error w/r/t the rokkit MEQ values and it has now been fixed. It actually gives them the top spot there by a hair.
My use of your math (thank you btw) might be a touch wrong, please forgive me in advance;
38 Tankbustas could fire at an AV14 Tank with no cover save and maybe do 3 Hull Points.
64 Tankbustas could fire at an AV13 walker with 4++ and maybe do 6 Hull Points of damage.
36 Tankbustas could fire at a Wraithknight with no save and maybe do 6 wounds.
Tankbustas, point for point, are 'raw-numbers' better at shooting AV14/AV13/Wraithknights then anything else in our codex, and I feel it takes an unreasonable amount of tankbustas to get results. I was running 30 of them in a Blitz Brigade as sort of answer to an IH Land Raider Spearhead. I will never forget that one game 15 of them fired at a Land Raider Redeemer and totaled it. Many games the shooting barely scratched that AV14 -->>The best shooting solution orkz have for AV14 -->>barely scratched AV14.
3 Meganobz, one Killsaw, Armorbane
I am the kinda ork that takes his own washing machine apart, puts new bearings in it, then puts it back together, and it still works.
2017/03/08 18:20:20
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
ProwlerPC wrote: Min squad of Tankbustas with one tankhammer and a nob with big choppy is 90 pts. 5 pts each for boss pole and squig bombs are auto take. Let the tankhammer boy use squigs as shooting attack and now on the charge you have 1 nob doing 4 S7 attacks, a boy doing 3 S8 attacks and one boy using a melta bomb all with Tank Hunter rule. That's more killy power for 10 pts less.
Interesting take.
5 naked bustas in a trukk w/ ram is 100 pts
5 bustas w/ a tankhammer and including a BCBP nob in a trukk w/ ram is 135 pts (and you need bomb squigs)
I don't know, a lot more killy in close combat but 35% more expensive. A bit more resilient though. I often play against skimmers so bomb squigs aren't auto-include for me...
Sad thing is we wouldn't have this conversation if GW didn't FAQ the grenades in close combat...
I probably should have quoted it but my post was in response to another post claiming never take tankhammers and put a pk on the nob instead. As I mention it's the one unit I wouldn't do that as the unit provides a cheaper more efficient option.
2017/03/08 19:50:46
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
My ork list that runs 14 Deffkoptas and I barely scratched a WK. I think I did 2 wounds over the course of 2 games. Both Eldar lists ran WK, I mean why wouldn't you. Doesn't matter if you ignore his armor when they sit in ruins or simply get a 5+. Quick math: 18 TL-shots > 10 hit > 5 wounds > 2-3 blocked by 4-5+ cover > 1-2 more get blocked by FNP > 1-2 wounds go through. Again rough in-game mathhammer but that's 18 TL rokkits only doing 2 wounds --- WITH TL. When you compare it to Tankbustas it gets worse. I understand that you might have more shots but they are less accurate, get killed in groups of 5-15, get less toughness, less saves, and are a lot slower.
After those two piss poor experiences, I've given up on killing WK and I just bubble wrap my artillery with 10 boyz now. Let him come to me and try to spread my threats out.
Tankbustas never did it for me. The deffkoptas lack TH, but the mobility and durability out weigh all pros from a tankbusta. I mean, I don't remember the last time my boyz lost against a mechanized list. Tankhunters is a pointless buff when you can just turboboost a solo deffkopta and contest late game.
tldr - Pros versus cons: I'm going Deffkopta every time.
2017/03/09 06:54:43
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
I stopped running tankbustas in favor of more trukks and solo kannons. Not that they're bad - they just don't do much. And kannons are cheaper when you need to cap backfield objectives. Plus i need more trukks to support the meganob rush. Don't want to leave 200+ pt squads standing in the middle of nowhere when you can just pick them up with a spare trukk and move forward.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/09 06:57:40
2017/03/09 07:49:02
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
No way an ork list could bring down a WK by shooting. Not even with 60 rokkits. Those S8 ap3 weapons are not suited for killing AV14 or semi immortal things like WKs, they are quite useful against MEQ and Av10-12, maybe 13, that's their room.
Against AV14 and T8 multiwounds units we litterally have nothing but power klaws if we really want to take these things down.
Solo kannons could be nice but even going double cad you can only field 6. Empty trukks are fast attacks so they compete with tankbustas only in terms of points. I think min tankbustas in trukks are good if you bring 2 or (even better) 3 of them. If the opponent shoots at them instead of the advancing boyz/meganobz/bikes it's good, if they are ignored they could do some damage and in case of necessity they provide 2-3 melta bombs around the battlefield.
But you have to go with a super fast army that relies on trukk spam to get a nice synergy with tankbustas. Or a blitzbrigade.
14 deffkoptas means 5 CADs or units that have more than single koptas, it doesn't seem a great deal to me. If you field 3-6 it should be enough.
2017/03/09 08:17:01
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Blackie wrote: Empty trukks are fast attacks so they compete with tankbustas only in terms of points.
I'm always short on points. Not telling it's some kind of truth set in stone but just from my experience, i'm better off with 10 naked choppaboyz in a trukk than 5 tankbustas. Boyz are obsec, they fill the cad requirement and they're decently choppy and numerous for points to threaten the backfield or add 30+ s4 attacks where needed. Sure, there are occasions when i'd rather have a couple more rokkits but there wasn't even one out of 10 or so games where i felt that 5 tankbustas were good. Whereas 10 naked trukkboyz were valuable. For comparable amount of points.
2017/03/09 09:08:12
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Blackie wrote: Empty trukks are fast attacks so they compete with tankbustas only in terms of points.
I'm always short on points. Not telling it's some kind of truth set in stone but just from my experience, i'm better off with 10 naked choppaboyz in a trukk than 5 tankbustas. Boyz are obsec, they fill the cad requirement and they're decently choppy and numerous for points to threaten the backfield or add 30+ s4 attacks where needed. Sure, there are occasions when i'd rather have a couple more rokkits but there wasn't even one out of 10 or so games where i felt that 5 tankbustas were good. Whereas 10 naked trukkboyz were valuable. For comparable amount of points.
I'm always short on points too Yeah trukk boyz are nice, but I usually take 5 of them all with pk nobz when I run trukks rush and 3 min squads of tankbustas, these units are not in competition in my lists. Plus bikes (or other trukks) and shooty stuff. 5 tankbustas are not good, you need at least 10, but 15 are the best option in my opinion. Of course you need also a lot of other assault oriented and fast units with them, but I don't feel comfortable if I don't have at least 20 rokkits on the battlefield and a lot of S5 shots too
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/09 09:08:33
2017/03/09 12:25:13
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
That's probably cause of the playstyle. Currently, i'm running bully boyz that eat up 750+ pts. They're always backed up by a full unit of lobbas with ammo runts and VSG. So, it's 950-1000 pts allready reserved. Than i need other stuff like a bikerboss with 1-3 koptas or probably a megaboss with boyz in a trukk, some troops - grots and trukkboyz and than there are some backfield objective campers alongside lobbas like other mek guns or lootas. Previously i had some points for a tankbusta squad but lately i'm running naked boyz instead.
As for taking pk nobz in boy squads, that's extra 35 pts. Doesn't seem like much for added utility but it's 50% of the squad's cost, it adds fast and when i allready have bully boyz and a bikerboss it's not always mandatory for the job they have to do. I used to always get a pk for trukkboyz but than i participated in a 1250 tourney where i was running bully boyz and a biker boss with a kopta and only had points enough for 10 boyz in a ram trukk. And they did good. So i decided to just continue running them this way.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/09 12:26:07
Yeah trukk boyz are nice, but I usually take 5 of them all with 