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Hi everybody.

A few months ago, my curiosity got the better of me, and for the first time in about half a decade I dub out some of my old White Dwarves. I had not thought about anything Warhammer related in such a long time, and it was initially just an excuse to relive some of the fun moments from my now gone youth. Of course, that led me to familiarize myself with where the games have gone now (I was playing fantasy 6th and 40k 3.5 when I stopped) and my oh my has the game come an awfully long way.

Withough a hint of exaggeration, I am massively out of date with the rules, what is being fielded in tournaments and generally what the state of play is. But that doesnt really matter does it.

Getting back into the game, I want to return to tournament play, that was always my favourite part of the hobby (supplemented be appropriate moddelling opportunities that competitive gaming supplies). Happily, I still have the handful of trophies I won all those years ago in my room still (but somewhat obscured by more recent jiu-jitsu ones). Obviously, ill get smashed at first, but that is likely the best way to learn, and if anything, I might be lucky with many of the tactical and strategic nuances coming back to me.

So what can you, humble dakkite, do for me? Well, firstly, give me your thoughts on my list. Try to be as harsh as you can regarding its strengths and weaknesses. Go a step further and try and let me know what you would do to me with your own army, and what I would need to do to threaten you. How would my list stack up powerwise? And finally, if you are feeling super generous, try and give me an overview of the current state of competitive play, and what im going to need to be wary of (and probably going to have to research ways of fighting against). Thanks!

So...

Tyranid Swarm, v1.0 (1500pt Tournament List)

Tyranid Prime; Twin Bone Swords, Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs

As will be discussed later, im trying to avoid MCs as much as possible. This combination of equipment seems the most killy (although correct me if I am wrong). The Prime will support the gaunts and character hunt as much as possible. I know its silly, but I like the idea of a commanding assassin bug - im even planning a conversion that will be some mix of spider and lictor. Perhaps slightly evocative of General Grievous from Star Wars, lots of killiness but a certain cold intellect also

2 Hive Guard
2 Hive Guard

My overarching strategy is to control the midfield of the table. If I can do that, then the limited 24"+6" range is not going to matter, ill be able to hit what I need to hit. Accurate S8 shots were what I remember being effective at taking out vehicles (half a decade ago, I was an SM player who crammed every possible missile launcher he could into his list!). The guard seem very resilient, with T6 and a 5 or 4+ cover save. My only fear is that perhaps I will need more anti-tank?

3 Venomthropes

Another important element in playing a horse type list. The mobile provision of a cover save should prove invaluable, because sadly not every table will be conducive to horde play. Im a little tempted to run only 2 venomthropes, but I cannot imagine that they stand up particularly well to shooting, so a full size unit should maintain the cover until my force can close the distance and start silencing the guns. The provision of dangerous terrain tests for assaulting nearby units I imagine will make controlling the midfield much more easy

17 Hormagaunts; Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands
17 Hormagaunts; Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands

Sad that they seem to have lost the 12" assault bonus :( Equipped to take out pretty much anything they can get their claws on. Toxin lets them rip up pretty much everything, while adrenal glands are there to get the initiative boost against eldar, and to give me a slightly better chance at pulling AV10 skimmers apart. They will be king to letting me wear down hordes, but perhaps Ork armies will be so numerous that I cannot win a battle of attrition?

13 Termagants; Toxin Sacs
13 Termagants; Toxin Sacs

Objective or table quarter holding units. Not sure on the toxin sacs, but combined with defeding from cover, it would seem to round out the unit nicely and give them additional flexibility.

17 Gargoyles; Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands
17 Gargoyles; Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands

More mobile than the hormagaunts, and better in single turn engagments. They lack the attrition power of hormagaunts, but the mobile bolter fire and bio-plasma makes them particularly good at taking out AV10 skimmers or eldar aspect warriors. Otherwise they just give me more midfield control, but also the ability to quickly mob units like devastators that are going to give me a headache

Tyrannofex; Rupture Cannon

Included for a bunch of reasons. Firstly, it can hold my base table quarter, and offers some dissuasion for enemies trying to utilize my backline against me. Additionally, high strength shooting to take out AV 13 or 14 is something I will otherwise lack, and really do not want to miss out on. Finally, its a welcome modelling opportunity in a list that otherwise is going to look a little generic - there are only so many little gaunt dioramas I can make! Having two eye catching models in the Prime and the Tyrannofex give me something to turn my creativity toward.

Now I am aware that I have only 1 MC in the list, and that it is going to attract every AT weapon on the field. So maybe that it is a little silly, and it detracts from that advantage of having no MCs, trying to waste the points spent on AT weaponary. Still, I have a 48" range weapon, 6 wounds and can use cover. So I imagine it is going to be at least somewhat hard to kill the darn thing. The 2+ save protects it from missile launchers and autocannons who can engage it at max range, which just leaves lasconnons - I dont think there will be too many of these, as most of the lists I am seeing are concentrating on melta weaponary, which arent going to get in range, due to my lists focus on midfield control. So it seems like a pretty good choice to help me round out the list

GRAND TOTAL 1498

103 models, 11 deployments

Any idea on how you would comp this list?

So, the army was designed to do the following:

-kill infantry (all the guants are aimed at doing this)
-kill tanks (two units of hive guard and a tyrannofex, while the gaunts can help against light vehicles a little)
-contest or capture objectives (I believe only TROOPS can do this now, so I have endeavoured to have larger gaunt units so that something will be left by turn 5-6 to fight for objectives. Possibly I should shrink down the number of gargoyles to invest more into troops?)

And if you have read all that, please feel free to write whatever you want and tell me whats on your mind.

Thanks for including me in the wonderful community, its really nice to be getting back into the hobby.

-Z.

If you want to create some unique models and you want to play a tyranid swarm, then look no further than the mighty TERVIGON!

Giving out FNP and providing AG/toxin to nearby gaunts. Can count as a troop choice. Creates more gants on demand. What's not to like! You can take up to 5 of them, although 2-3 will be all you need.

Attaching prime with regen to the tyrannofex can act as a wound sponge. I prefer LW and bonesword though to ensure you (normally) go first.

a single Tyrannofex w/ rupture cannon is 265 pts for 2 BS 3 shots, I'm sure it would take a while to kill him, but I would bet he will under perform in most matches. I would fill out the Hive Guard units and the smaller units with those points.

The venomthropes seem a waste since you lack monsterous creatures, you could instead rely on intervening model coversaves (4+) to get you across the field. Make one Gargoyle squad or termagant squad bare bones and max them out and use them to shield everyone else until you close the gap. Less points and better cover save.

Interesting. What to do against AV13/14 though?

I do like the idea of a meatshield gaunt unit though, sounds like a good idea.

Perhaps I should drop the Tyrannofex for three more Hive Guard, then add 21 naked termagants as the meatshield.

This would add hordiness and should give me the coversaves I need (right?). 7 Hive Guard seems like an awful lot of shooting.

Any thoughts on upgrades on termagants? I suppose the two smaller units I have would be better of naked if they are just going to be objective holding, which would free up more points.

The tervigon sounds good, but its going to be a massive missile magnet, and the benefits that keep the tyrannofex alive do not seem to apply to the tervigon. I think they would really shine in a list designed to make the most of them, but I dont feel my list does that.

Thanks guys!

Lash whip is better on the Prime as you can force enemy models to be I1 which is handy, plus having the boneswords only makes a difference for taking those leadership tests on 3D6 for enemy models.

Drop the Venomthropes as they are not that good and add more Hive Guard.

Hormagaunts are ok but just toxin sacs are fine. They need to be at least 20 per unit to asborb fire power.

I'd drop the Gargoyles as they don't severe any purpose.

Termagants are ok but Tervigons are awesome to get free troops I'd consider those if you want to go the monstrous creature route.

The Tyrannofex is expensive for what it is, I'd drop on it.

On another note you only have a single synapse creature so you will be taking synapse tests a lot.

Game play at the moment in 5th edition is all about mech as vehicles are strong. You need to get as much anti tank as you can in your army, at range and close. Tyranids don't have a huge amount of anti tank at range but up close they can take vehicles out or glance things to death.

Good point on Synapse, perhaps I should look at taking two primes?

Part of me wants to day it looks good but the other part is screaming it's way to soft. With amount of armor there is in tournament play now you are going to suffer madly. 3 units can take armor out reliably. With a bit of focused fire for a turn or two they would be gone and you would be left helpless against the treads of enemy vehicles. Some armies could even put this list down in turn one, DE venom spam comes to mind. And, with the model coming just around the corner, expect to see considerably more of it. IG would laugh at this list. Wolves would tear it apart. Dependent upon the build even BA have a decent chance at taking your teeth out before you can use them much. These are the big tournament armies right now. . .well, and GK. They can maul you pretty bad too. Bottom line here, get more anti-tank and a few force multipliers like tervigons.

zemanjaski wrote:Good point on Synapse, perhaps I should look at taking two primes?

Yes. What makes a good unit is a Tyranid Prime and Carnifex. Tough unit, lot of wounds as T6 between them thanks to majority toughness and can get cover thanks to the Prime as 50% in cover

Kind of depressing that the game seems to have degenerated into just spamming the killiest possible units, at least a little.

Ill think about it and try to come up with a new list.

Well this is tournament play. Everybody's out to win it and putting the best units on the field tends to be good start. It may be crappy to do, but it's going to happen. If your looking for casual play this list may do fine. But, in the ultra efficient tourny circuit, this list will suffer.

Just mentioning that you can't have a Prime join a T-fex per ruminator's suggestion, as the T-fex is always a unit of one model (IC rules).

Venoms are definitely unneccessary in an infantry spam list.

If you're keen on Gargoyles (and they are a good unit at charging and blocking LOS), Parasite of Mortrex makes them into a very good assault unit and adds Synapse. She can be a liability in KP games, though, making small and easily killed units appear.

Gargoyles synergy well with Tervigon, if you get tempted, since she can hide behind them and throw FNP onto them in return.

T-fex is good - my favourite new unit - but I'd be reluctant to give it a go in games under 1750. Anyone who takes a Land Raider in that sort of game has spent a lot of points on it, it might be more effective to bait it to rush forwards and dump a deathstar unit on a Gaunt screen and then open up on them with everything you've got (or just ignore the pair of them for softer targets).

Ymgarl or regular genestealers might go well in your 'little guys' approach. Tmgarls exert massive pressure on their movement, and a large blob of regulars with Toxin Sacs can cover a LOT of space with Infiltration.

Hormagaunts are difficult to make work without force multipliers. I find they benefit massively from a Tyrant giving them Outflank, or a Swarmlord giving them a free Furious Charge. But if they're sitting behind your Gaunt screen, there's worse counter-charge units.

zemanjaski wrote:Kind of depressing that the game seems to have degenerated into just spamming the killiest possible units, at least a little.

Ill think about it and try to come up with a new list.

That's the way the cookie crumbles. The best way to think about it is the codex is like a toolbox and you're taking the best tools for the job

lindsay40k wrote:

Gargoyles synergy well with Tervigon, if you get tempted, since she can hide behind them and throw FNP onto them in return.

Gargoyles do not have synergy with Tervigons at all. You can get cover for Tervigons using Gargoyles but you can do that with Hive Guard and get anti tank. Gargoyles move 12" and the Tervigon does not so you're just using a expensive bullet shield and holding it back. Gargoyles have excellent synergy with Flyrants.

Firstly, its awesome to be getting so much feedback and assistance.

I guess I know substantially less than I thought I did about competitive play - im too used to comped events from circa 2005!

If you will indulge me, what sort of things are people running in effective Tyranid lists now?

mercer wrote:

lindsay40k wrote:

Gargoyles synergy well with Tervigon, if you get tempted, since she can hide behind them and throw FNP onto them in return.

Gargoyles do not have synergy with Tervigons at all. You can get cover for Tervigons using Gargoyles but you can do that with Hive Guard and get anti tank. Gargoyles move 12" and the Tervigon does not so you're just using a expensive bullet shield and holding it back. Gargoyles have excellent synergy with Flyrants.

I'm used to having a 'tendril' of five or so Gaunts hanging back to keep the unit as a whole counting as being in Synapse/Tervigon/Old Adversary range. Where the rest of the blob sits is by the by. Only difference is these are Jump Infantry. If they're being used as chargers, there may well be an Old Adversary they're trying to keep grounded to, so it's hardly a massive leap to tie a Tervigon in with that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There's an excellent thread discussing Tyranid tactica, with an OP that get occasionally updated to incorporate the better suggestions: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/319613.page

I'm not a Nid player so take the follow for what it is, just a opponents perspective.

I like the list and I think you really hit on the issue, heavy AV. Here are my thoughts on the whole list:

First, BoLS touted the venomthropes 5++ for hordes today. I was not convinced. I think you could shave them for points to be used elsewhere. I would rather take more bodies then rely on a 5++ save.

Next, a tervigon IS a good idea. It can greatly buff your horde and add to its numbers. One should be enough.

Third, mech control-- The hive guard are obviously great. I think you should try to fit a second T-Fex. One is just asking to get targeted as you mentioned in the OP. However, you could try to replace the T-Fex idea with one of those burrying badies. I forget which one is better for tank killing. You could consider using those instead, whichever one that is.

Lastly, a unit of stealers might be nice just to keep those buble-wraps and long fangs in check. Just the fact that the opponent has to worryabout them is worth one.

Obviously you can't fit everything but I hope my thoughts help. Good luck.

Thanks guys, ill check out the BoLS article.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here we go:

Tyranid Swarm, v2.0 (1500pt Tournament List)

Tyranid Prime: twin boneswords, adrenal glands

3 Hive Guard
3 Hive Guard
2 Venomthropes

10 Genestealers: toxin sacs, Broodlord with scything talons
Tervigon: toxin sacs, adrenal glands
24 Termagants
12 Termagants
12 Termagants

21 Gargoyles: toxin sacs, adrenal glands
21 Gargoyles: toxin sacs, adrenal glands

1499 points, 109 models.

Thoughts?

Thanks everyone!

lindsay40k wrote:

mercer wrote:

lindsay40k wrote:

Gargoyles synergy well with Tervigon, if you get tempted, since she can hide behind them and throw FNP onto them in return.

Gargoyles do not have synergy with Tervigons at all. You can get cover for Tervigons using Gargoyles but you can do that with Hive Guard and get anti tank. Gargoyles move 12" and the Tervigon does not so you're just using a expensive bullet shield and holding it back. Gargoyles have excellent synergy with Flyrants.

I'm used to having a 'tendril' of five or so Gaunts hanging back to keep the unit as a whole counting as being in Synapse/Tervigon/Old Adversary range. Where the rest of the blob sits is by the by. Only difference is these are Jump Infantry. If they're being used as chargers, there may well be an Old Adversary they're trying to keep grounded to, so it's hardly a massive leap to tie a Tervigon in with that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There's an excellent thread discussing Tyranid tactica, with an OP that get occasionally updated to incorporate the better suggestions: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/319613.page

You're kind of missing the point that a Tervigon moves 6" and Gargoyles move 12" which means Gargoyles are been held back and been a 6 point per model bullet shield. They go with a flying Tyrant better.

The reason gargoyles make good meat sheilds is the fact that the models are big enough to cover 50% of monsterous creatures.

Grabzak Dirtyfighter wrote:The reason gargoyles make good meat sheilds is the fact that the models are big enough to cover 50% of monsterous creatures.

Exactly. Compare them to Termagants as a shield:

- Massively improved LOS blocking for MC's
- Can move over a second line unit without problem
- Won't make bad difficult terrain rolls that bottleneck the rest of the army
- Don't take up a Troops slot
- If called upon to attack something, a third of melee hits autowound
- If called upon to objective deny or attack something, they can move quickly
- Won't all die when a Sternguard unit drops in and nukes a Tervigon
- If they take very heavy casualties, survivors can more easily move out of hot zones to avoid relinquishing KP's
- If they are wiped out, you weren't relying on them as a scoring unit
- Can work very well with an embedded Parasite extending synapse net

At a cost of:

- Can't claim objectives
- Can't gain AG/TS from Tervigons
- 1 extra point per model
- Occasional difficult terrain casualties

I'm not saying that Gargoyles are always the better choice for a shield over the Termagants you have to take anyway to unlock troop Tervigons, but they do have a lot of merit in a lot of situations. The fact that they're not getting the most out of their wings (that cost a fraction of a point) every turn is by the by if they're causing half of incoming lascannon hits on Tervigons to be discounted.

Grabzak Dirtyfighter wrote:The reason gargoyles make good meat sheilds is the fact that the models are big enough to cover 50% of monsterous creatures.

Yes I know that. Point is they move 12" and have synergy with something which also moves 12", yes? Not much synergy is just moving 6" in front of a monstrous creature been a bullet shield costing 160 points or something.

Tervigon should have cover as already explained from units which should be in the list. Place Termagants in front as a bubblewrap. Then Hive Guard which get cover from the Termagants. Then place the Tervigon which get cover from the Hive Guard. All those units you will need in a list, all those units move at 12" and two units are getting cover.

With Gargoyles you're paying for those wings and not using them to move 12" so you are affectively just paying X amount of points for mobile cover which in itself is a waste because how many cover saves can a monstrous creature pass? I bet it won't be all of them.

Gargoyles, as already mentioned, at better for a flying Tyrant as a bullet shield. When the Tyrant gets close to the target the Gargoyles peel off and harass another unit as you don't want them in the same fight as the Tyrant because of fearless wounds but keep them close for old adversary. Now you're getting a bullet shield out of the Gargoyles and a offensive unit instead of just a bullet shield costing points.

If you want just a cover save get a Venomthrope that's is what they are there for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

lindsay40k wrote:

Grabzak Dirtyfighter wrote:The reason gargoyles make good meat sheilds is the fact that the models are big enough to cover 50% of monsterous creatures.

Exactly. Compare them to Termagants as a shield:

- Massively improved LOS blocking for MC's
- Can move over a second line unit without problem
- Won't make bad difficult terrain rolls that bottleneck the rest of the army
- Don't take up a Troops slot
- If called upon to attack something, a third of melee hits autowound
- If called upon to objective deny or attack something, they can move quickly
- Won't all die when a Sternguard unit drops in and nukes a Tervigon
- If they take very heavy casualties, survivors can more easily move out of hot zones to avoid relinquishing KP's
- If they are wiped out, you weren't relying on them as a scoring unit
- Can work very well with an embedded Parasite extending synapse net

At a cost of:

- Can't claim objectives
- Can't gain AG/TS from Tervigons
- 1 extra point per model
- Occasional difficult terrain casualties

I'm not saying that Gargoyles are always the better choice for a shield over the Termagants you have to take anyway to unlock troop Tervigons, but they do have a lot of merit in a lot of situations. The fact that they're not getting the most out of their wings (that cost a fraction of a point) every turn is by the by if they're causing half of incoming lascannon hits on Tervigons to be discounted.

Gargoyles do block LOS better which I agree and not debating that point. I've already told you why Gargoyles don't fit as a bullet shield for Tervigons and go better with flying Tyrants. I've said it again above . As you have even said yourself they work with the Parasite a flying beast which moves the same speed . Gargoyles do have merits as you mentioned but they just don't fit with Tervigons. They go with faster flying creatures i.e Shrikes etc.

Oh, Gargoyles, terrain, they won't make bad terrain rolls to slow down the army but take dangerous terrain tests when going into terrain as jump infantry. No one would put them into terrain unless contesting a objective.

Whilst Hive Guard can block LOS to a Tervigon, it's by no means guaranteed. Each unit can only block LOS in one direction, in order to do so it has to bunch up and risk heavy damage from AP3+ blasts, and if enemy shooters are elevated (infantry in buildings, skimmers, jetbikes) then there's a significant risk of them having enough LOS to deny the Tervigon cover. These risks are less when Gargoyles are blocking loads of LOS.

My point is that if you're using Gargoyles for screening purposes, a Tervigon is a good match because it doubles their survival against small arms and they can screen it from mobile gun platforms that might otherwise shoot over or around your HG. The fact that the Tervigon moves slowly doesn't seem to be a massive drawback as you're not paying a huge amount for the wings (1 point extra for the advantages listed above), and in any case the Gargoyles need not keep pace with the Tervigon (a small tendril within Catalyst range is the only 'anchor').

As long as they're blocking LOS of shooters, they can go anywhere and still be a viable shield. So if it's a big unit of Gargoyles, there's scope for them to serve as Flyrant or Parasite escorts at the same time as screening for Tervigons.

Don't you have those things happen with Gargoyles anyway? You could wrap the Tervigon completely in Gargoyles but elevated units can by pass the cover save as the stands of the Gargoyles are only so high.

If you only need a small part of the unit covering the Tervigon then you won't completely cover it from all sides as you mentioned earlier. Also this tactic will allow assaulting units to move up and assault the Gargoyles pulling them away exposing the Tervigon to another assault.

Doesn't matter if the wings are 1 point more. The point is Gargoyles are meant to go 12" not partially block a monstrous creature and be nothing but a bullet shield and move 6".

For what its worth, I like the idea of meatshielding gargoyles - the 18" threat range seems like the real strength of the unit to me, and beyond that they are a very cheap unit anyway.

If I wanted to build the most effective possible "core" with which to occupy the centre of the table, what should it include? The way I imagine playing is taking up all o the key central real estate, fighting for objectives and damaging the key threats in the enemy force and focussing on scoring. I want it to be as difficult as possible for the enemy to dislodge me once I am set up.

Thanks guys!

zemanjaski wrote:For what its worth, I like the idea of meatshielding gargoyles - the 18" threat range seems like the real strength of the unit to me, and beyond that they are a very cheap unit anyway.

If I wanted to build the most effective possible "core" with which to occupy the centre of the table, what should it include? The way I imagine playing is taking up all o the key central real estate, fighting for objectives and damaging the key threats in the enemy force and focussing on scoring. I want it to be as difficult as possible for the enemy to dislodge me once I am set up.

Thanks guys!

Mercer answered this. Tervigon, hive guard and gants. Venomthrope if you want the cover save.

Here goes:

1500point Horde Swarm v3.0

Tyranid Prime: Bone sword with lashwhip, Adrenal Glands

3 Hive Guard
3 Hive Guard
2 Venomthropes

Tervigon: Scything Talons, Crushing Claws (thoughts?), Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst
4 Tyranid Warriors: Scything Talons, Rending Claws, Toxin Sacs
16 Termagants
16 Termagants
16 Termagants

21 Gargoyles: Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
21 Gargoyles: Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

GRAND TOTAL 1456

104 models.

Changes:
-switched the kit on the Prime a little, now he feels more like a commander bug
-upped the Tervigon to make it a little more dangerous in CC, not sure on how I feel about that though
-added warriors for more synapse in the centre, and to have a powerful CC unit to chuck in against whatever the termagants pin down. Thoughts on their kit?

Im liking the army more and more, how should I spend the final points?

Thanks everyone, im getting a lot out of the discussion

Your core will massively benefit from Hive Guard. They're a top-tier unit that poses a massive threat to any armour smaller than a Leman Russ.

Your Rupture T-fex is a great start; it puts an eggtimer on all vehicles, and when enemy infantry start to move in, it can put out a lot of damage with cluster spines and desiccator larvae. It'll be a big chunk of points at 1500, though, and not half as dangerous as two Ruptures (which is very difficult to afford under 1750).

In fact, 1500 is a scale that Tyranids can really struggle with. It's difficult to afford an effective threat to AV14, transport spam, and also get a significant amount of synergy units boosting each other.

If you want to bulldoze up the centre, Ymgarls have a place in making the enemy terrified of going near any terrain until they arrive. Outflankers then trap the enemy between a rock and a hard place; Hive Commander has good synergy with this.

A mobile castle really, really benefits from Tervigons. I know you're not keen on them, but for lists that focus on a load of foot-sloggers they're brilliant. Your number grow for several turns, your meatshields take twice as much small arms fire to take out, your deathstars become extremely difficult to put down, and you've got T6 W6 scoring units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A Land Raider, Leman Russ battery or robust Walker will cause massive problems for you without any of the following: Rupture Cannon, Zoanthrope, Flyrant, Trygons, Carnifexes.

Tyranid Warriors are awful, game-wise. They're nice models and all, but don't expect much from them other than getting ID'd by S8 weapons.

You've got a large number of Termagants there, and the close combat equip on the Tervigon is a bit much. Tervigons CAN pull off the bulldozer trick in pairs with an Old Adversary nearby to boost them; otherwise, they're as likely to get pounded by Power Fists. The most popular Term/Terv combo I see is two minimal Termagant units and two Tervigons with Adrenal and Toxin. That spawns 30 or so Gaunts and is a lot of T6 wounds to cut through. Since you like Venomthropes, they'd probably do well with a Rupturefex to deal with big vehicles.

Awesome, more to think about tomorrow. Thanks, you're brilliant!

zemanjaski wrote:Here goes:

1500point Horde Swarm v3.0

Tyranid Prime: Bone sword with lashwhip, Adrenal Glands

3 Hive Guard
3 Hive Guard
2 Venomthropes

Tervigon: Scything Talons, Crushing Claws (thoughts?), Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst
4 Tyranid Warriors: Scything Talons, Rending Claws, Toxin Sacs
16 Termagants
16 Termagants
16 Termagants

21 Gargoyles: Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
21 Gargoyles: Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

GRAND TOTAL 1456

104 models.

Changes:
-switched the kit on the Prime a little, now he feels more like a commander bug
-upped the Tervigon to make it a little more dangerous in CC, not sure on how I feel about that though
-added warriors for more synapse in the centre, and to have a powerful CC unit to chuck in against whatever the termagants pin down. Thoughts on their kit?

Im liking the army more and more, how should I spend the final points?

Thanks everyone, im getting a lot out of the discussion

Not bad but switch the Warriors out for another Tervigon and btw you can only take talons OR claws not both. I take claws on mine as they end up in combat and can be helpful. Over the game the claws generate a extra 7 attacks which works out to be 3.6 points per extra monstrous creature attack which I don't think is to bad. The extra Tervigon will then replace those naff Warriors and give another monstrous creature as saturation but dual targets in the form of another Tervgion.

Gargoyles are cool for two things; bullet shield for Tyrant and harassing units. You don't have a Tyrant and the key word is harass they don't really do much. As mentioned I think Ravenors would suit with rending claws. These guys have 5 attacks each on the charge and a possible 24" charge range! Plus they can damage tanks and infantry, put it this way they do a little more than harass stuff like Gargoyles do

What you want is something like this:

Tyranid Prime - bonesword & lash whip, adrenal glands & regeneration - 115

2 x Hive Guard - 100
2 x Hive Guard - 100
2 x Hive Guard - 100

Tervigon - crushing claws, adrenal glands, toxin sacs & catalyst - 220
Tervigon - crushing claws, adrenal glands, toxin sacs & catalyst - 220
10 x Termagants - 50
10 x Termagants - 50

5 x Ravenors - rending claws - 175
5 x Ravenors - rending claws - 175

Carnifex - 2 x twin-linked devourers & frag spines - 195

Total: 1,500

Right you've got a tough little HQ here which can I.D stuff after the enemy model fails a leadership test; that bone sword is also a power weapon. The lash whip can make things go last and you've got adrenal glands to be S6 . Prime joins the Carnifex and thanks to majority toughness the Prime is now T6 Keep the Prime in terrain (both get move through cover as the Prime is a I.C and 'Fex monstrous creature) Fex can lay down the dakka and when it charges it has frags

Hive Guard lay down the fire power. Place Termagants in front of them to get a 4+ cover save. As you move up the board peel them off and place them mid field in terrain where LOS cannot be drawn to them. Place Termagants around them as bubblewrap to stop them getting assaulted.

Tervigons move up casting feel no pain either on Hive Guard or themselves. Spawn Termagants when needed and use 'Gants to claim objectives, assault units or tie up units i.e walkers or tanks (glance tanks to immobilise them) and bring in the Tervigon with the claws - remember Termagants when spawned get 6" extra movement when they are spawned as you place them 6" away

Ravenors act as first wave of attack to put pressure on the opponent. They will move through cover quickly as they are beasts (also have fleet and 12" charge range) and with those rending claws can tackle a tank or infantry and keep things tied up or just kill stuff. Beware of power fists with these guys and units camping on upper floors as beasts cannot go upstairs!

Hope that helps

I must say, that is an incredibly awesome list. You managed to include pretty much everything I could ask for

Im tempted to still include gargoyles over Raveners - it is becoming clearly that they are a worse choice - but I like the idea of them and I really do want to field a swarm.

But this really feels like a MUCH better all around list, so thank you very much


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just a small aside, any thoughts on zoanthropes over one of the hive guard units? Just to add a little more hitting power against high AV?

Thanks

I've tried Gargoyles and Ravenors and I like Genestealers the best . Yes you read right Genestealers and I will tell you why. I've already explained about Gargoyles and what they do same for Ravenors and if I had a choice of either Gargoyles or Ravenors I'd go the Ravs.

Though, Genestealers. First they add more troops which is needed and the reason it is needed is you cannot bank on those Tervigon spawning all game. I personally tend to do well with mine but my mate burns one out a turn from turn one, . What 'Stealers can do is outflank and attack those camping units Ravenors cannot reach. They can also claim/contest objectives too. 'Stealers are better fighters and a unit of 10 will cost 140 points and generate 10 wounds and 30 attacks on the charge; rending. Raveners in a unit of 4 costing the same points will generate 12 wounds and 20 attacks when charging. Main difference is Genestealers are WS6 I6 and power fists don't bother them etc.

So, to change your mind once more I would personally go for 'Stealers as they are better than Ravenors and bulk up the troop choices. I honestly put Ravenors in to keep the fast attack element.