Lemartes wrote:Wanted to go with a Nightlord theme and still see if it will be competetive. 1850 with a little Daemon bomb.
Warptime D-prince Bolt
Warptime D-prince Bolt
Greater Daemon
20 Lesser Daemons
20 Lesser Daemons
8 Raptors champ/fist 2 Melta's Icon undivided
8 Raptors champ/fist 2 plasmas Icon univided
7 Bikes Champ/melta bombs 2 Melta's Icon Nurgle
1 Dreadnaught Xtra armor plasma cannon
1 Dreadnaught Xtra armor plasma cannon
As you can see it is mostly cc oriented but I am hoping it has just enough anti armor to pop open prevalent mech lists. Princes are a little pricey but they are thier to try and draw fire off of my advancing raptors and bikes. They also have the bolt to try and pop armor from range at strength 8. Naked bike champion is thier to pull the Greater Daemon when available and melta bomb a immobilized tank if opportunity presents itself. I added the plasma's for descent of angels lists. If they are playing a all descent list then I can also reserve my whole list because of it's rapid response and Icons for deepstriking daemons.
Are you really going for a night lords theme? If so you are breaking a lot of their basic themes by going heavy on daemons(40lesser, 1 greater), daemon princes (/w
MoT), and using dreadnoughts. They are listed as "chaos undivided" but they really are more like a renegade force if anything. Raptors are really one of the few chaos-corrupted units they use with any frequency. They are all about the element of surprise, instilling fear, and using hit and run tactics. I really wish we had hit and run raptors still. They embodied night lords pretty well.
So I'd definitely ease up on the daemon elements and heavy war machine elements if you want to run a more closely night lord themed army. If you just like the paint scheme or aren't too worried about following their doctrine as closely do w/e feels good.
HQ:
I'm going to assume your
DPs have Mark of Tzeentch? Otherwise they couldn't take bolt of change. That said, it is a solid power for taking down vehicles not only for the 8str but also for the ap1 adding +1 to the vehicle damage table. I'd recommend wings both from a
NL theme aspect and from a much better method of movement aspect. Like I said above I don't think anything but the fast attack element fits into the
NL theme. I'd personally recommend a stripped-down
NL lord /w wings joining a raptor squad.
Greater daemon - Lot of fun, just keep in mind it will take one of your champions when it comes into being(assuming you've chosen the bike champ for this role?). That adds on about 40-45pt if my math is correct. They will definitely tear apart whatever they come into being next to, but they have trouble getting into play when needed and also have trouble getting to another enemy with their lack of wings. Your champions are also all in high casualty units (bikers/raptors) and you have no lord/sorc backup.
Elites:
NL theme aside, I think these are both a bad way to take dreadnoughts, and a bad way to spend points in general. Taking plasma cannon dreads with an infantry/rhino/
MC filled list is asking to lose a huge chunk of your army to your own shots. If you put them both side-by-side then you're likely to lose one of them to the other's fire (
str 7 on
av 12) or have one run off into
CC and leave the other open to blow your own troops to bits. So many problems, so many better ways to spend the points in this list.
Suggestions: Consider a unit or two of chosen infiltrating /w your choice of 3-5 special weapons. It is as
NL as you can get and can give you time to get the rest of your army in place before the enemy knows what happened. Nothing like popping a few rhinos or flaming some key infantry squads early on. Just don't spend a lot on them because they're essentially suicide squads.
The other possible option that both fits with
NL theme and has options to get them into combat quickly to cause disruption of battle lines/plans are some terminators in a termicide setup. Small squads but they can nail some key units quickly and last long enough in the ensuing
CC to give your troops long enough to get in position to charge/deal out melta shots.
Troops:
Again, I'll save the
NL theme argument, but I think this is a bad decision to only include daemons as your only troops. Our troops section is one of the strongest we have, and you've taken none of our excellent space marine options. Lesser daemons can have their uses(mainly swarming objectives, bogging down strong enemies to keep them out of the fight, or adding infantry where needed to boost parts of your army where they're needed), but not like this. I would highly recommend dropping a 20daemon squad for as many squads of regular
csm as you can /w melta. It gives you more melta which is always a good thing and the rhinos will keep them moving as quickly as the rest of the army. Only 2 rhinos on the field is definitely a problem so I'd really recommend dropping all the daemons and getting more marine troops.
Fast Attack:
Definitely where you should spend a lot of time and you've done a good job of that. I love the raptors, one of my favorite units, but the bikers are not what I'd recommend. Bikers are , at best, suicide deliveries of melta or daemons. With that in mind I would spend as little as you can on them and keep the squad size small. You should not need IoN with turbo boost and it costs a ridiculous amount. You could split this unit into 2 squads of 3 for some very fast moving melta/flamer squads. I'd personally just take 1 squad if you think you need to and spend the rest in raptors or more troops.
Also, there is no Icon of Chaos Undivided. It is an icon of chaos glory. Small nitpick, sorry =p
Heavy Support:
One of our strongest sections but of course
NL probably wouldn't have a huge amount of their army based here. You still might consider taking some havocs /w special weapons in a rhino, havocs /w autocannons and/or missile lauchers for some long range fire power, or some oblits (possibly deepstriking, not my favorite way to deploy them but it is there). Another faster idea would be a pair of predators with
ac turret/lascannon sponsons for a cheap option that can take out heavy infantry/elites/vehicles.
Hope this helps. Sorry if it was a little long-winded. I think your list as it stands could be fun, but I wouldn't label it a NL list without stretching the term quite far. It also suffers heavily from our poor codex. We used to be able to make such interesting and also fairly viable NL lists, but they've taken away so much of what makes CSM fun. Glad to see anyone attempting a NL list in these times.
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