Duplicate Scissorhands

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**Baragash**

Search didn't help me, so can you guys back or refute this conversation please.

"Initial statement" wrote:A Haemonculus Ancient CAN take 2 scissorhands. A haemonculous Ancient with 2 scissor hands gets a total of 7 attacks. Let me explain.

The Haemonculous has standard, a pistol and combat weapon.
It does NOT exchange either for the scissor hands (think Djinn blade)
It CAN take 2 scissor hands (it's allowed to take 2 pieces of Arcane Wargear, which scissor hands are listed under)
Scissor hands CAN stack with regular close combat weapons, it's is described as such in the wargear profile.

The attacks are calculated the following way:

3 base, Scissorhand1 + Pistol (Total 2A), Scissorhand 2 + CCW (total 2A) = 7 attacks @ WS5, 3+ wounding

And YES. A Haemonculous does have 4 arms, clearly, you have not seen a Haemonculous lately

"Retort" wrote:Sure, if you can find the section in the rulebook that covers a special weapon, another special weapon, a close combat weapon and another close combat weapon it does.......

"Further explanation" wrote:Why would that be necessary at all?

Instead you have to refer Page 37 of the Rulebook, calculating number of attacks

Note the second bullet point, it indicates that models can have more than 2 weapons.
Note the third bullet point

Codex > Rulebook,

Scissorhands specifically trump the second bullet point in regards to no gaining extra attacks, where a scissorhand w/ ccw still pumps out 2A, thus 2 Scissorhands w/ 2 CCW pumps out additional 4A.

Page 42 about weapons only describes how you use close combat weapons and what they can and can't be combined with, IE PF + Pistol = no bonus Attack, or PW + Pistol = +1A, etc. Additionally a model with 2 scissorhands is not using 2 different special weapons, thus doesn't need to choose which one to use, their both scissorhands.

**spongemonkee**

refute, you can only ever use bonuses from 1 ccw in combat and may use another ccw to gain 1 more attack unless otherwise specified.

1 scissorhand + an extra ccw = 2 bonus attacks
99 sciissorhands + 99 extra ccw's = 2 bonus attacks

**Xarian**

You're forgetting the fact that infantry models must choose a single weapon to attack with.

He could have 75 Scissorhands; it wouldn't matter. He can only choose one to attack with. At that point, he also has "an additional close combat weapon", so he gains +1 A.

The model having 4 arms is irrelevant. Nowhere in the rulebook does it state that a model may use additional weapons or gains additional attacks if it is modeled with more arms.

The wording on Scissorhands is such that it is not treated as a "special weapon" when determining if the weapon gets +1 A for "an additional close combat weapon". Nothing else.

**Nungunz**

Page 42 of the rule book under 'Two of the Same Special Weapon': "These models gain one additional attack. All of their attacks, including the bonus attack, use the special weapon's bonuses."

You only get +2 attacks (one for the scissor hand ability + 1 for the bonus attack).

**Exergy**

ugg why is this the 5th thread asking about this? Haemis suck in CC no matter how many 15pt +1 attacks you take. (you are limited to 2 pieces of wargear)

WS4 T4 6+save. They have the defensive stats of a nob! but they can be picked out and targeted in CC. They will die the first round of combat against any competant player.

**somerandomdude**

Exergy wrote:WS4 T4 6+save. They have the defensive stats of a nob! but they can be picked out and targeted in CC. They will die the first round of combat against any competant player.

I'm confused, how does 1 S4 attack kill a 2-wound FNP model?

Assault with a unit, placing the Haemonculus on a non-powerweapon/powerfist model, and swing 4 (or 5 with SH) times into the unit to get a few extra wounds. The earliest he dies is in the opponent's assault phase, which still gets him a few swings.

Agree with the thread (and think the SH is a waste on Haemonculi), just disagree with the thought that "any competent player" can do anything when they are assaulted and their models are locked where they are.

**Exergy**

somerandomdude wrote:
Exergy wrote:WS4 T4 6+save. They have the defensive stats of a nob! but they can be picked out and targeted in CC. They will die the first round of combat against any competant player.

I'm confused, how does 1 S4 attack kill a 2-wound FNP model?

Assault with a unit, placing the Haemonculus on a non-powerweapon/powerfist model, and swing 4 (or 5 with SH) times into the unit to get a few extra wounds. The earliest he dies is in the opponent's assault phase, which still gets him a few swings.

Agree with the thread (and think the SH is a waste on Haemonculi), just disagree with the thought that "any competent player" can do anything when they are assaulted and their models are locked where they are.

A lot of things out there have more than one attack. Without fleet he really slows things down, you might get charged and then more than 1 model could attack him.

**StormRaven**

As a Dark Eldar player I would say that they are a point sink. Any HQ that cant take a Invulnerable save is just a waste of points with or without FNP.

As to taking two SH and two CCW's where does it say you can attack with that many close combat weapons? Or are you assuming that because its not listed as a replacement for a weapon you can take multiples because it says they can have 2 pieces of arcane wargear? Besides in the descriptive text for the SH it states that it is a weapon in which case you are limited by the number of weapons a model can take which unless they changed it is 3.

**Noir**

StormRaven wrote:Besides in the descriptive text for the SH it states that it is a weapon in which case you are limited by the number of weapons a model can take which unless they changed it is 3.

This is not a rule, a model can have 1000+ weapons. In 4th it was true but not in 5th.

**bushido**

You can have all the weapons you want (or can legally purchase) but a model is only ever allowed to use the special rules for one ccw at a time.

**Grey Templar**

The only models that gain bonuses for having more then 2 CCWs are Deffdreds and only because they are specifically given permission to do so.

it would make sense for the Haemonculus to gain an extra attack for a 3rd and 4th power weapon, but his rules don't allow for it.

either house rule it or leave it alone.

**Exergy**

Grey Templar wrote:The only models that gain bonuses for having more then 2 CCWs are Deffdreds and only because they are specifically given permission to do so.

it would make sense for the Haemonculus to gain an extra attack for a 3rd and 4th power weapon, but his rules don't allow for it.

either house rule it or leave it alone.

The haemi can only replace his CC weapon and Pistol with actual Weapons.
Scissorhands are arcane wargear of which a haemi can have 2.

liquifiers and hexrifers are also not weapons but arcane items.

**Kommissar Kel**

While Arcane wargear, Scissor hands are still Special CCWs: Poisoned weapons to be exact(specified in their entry); while they do not replace the normal entry, they are in fact themselves Close combat weapons(leaving you with 3-4 Close combat weapons, depending on purchases made. At least 1-2 of them Special CCWs)

**somerandomdude**

Grey Templar wrote:The only models that gain bonuses for having more then 2 CCWs are Deffdreds and only because they are specifically given permission to do so.

Also the Defiler, for the same reason.

**Grey Templar**

somerandomdude wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:The only models that gain bonuses for having more then 2 CCWs are Deffdreds and only because they are specifically given permission to do so.

Also the Defiler, for the same reason.

Yeah, thats right.

they never make it into combat around here