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Hi guys here is my current army, want to expand it cheaply

HQ

Captain with power sword and bolter x2

Elites

10x terminators

Troops

Tactical squad seargeant has chain sword and bolt pistol, 1x flamer, 1x missile launcher


Tactical squad seargeant has chain sword and bolt pistol, 1x flamer, 1x missile launcher

Scout squad five man camo cloaks snipers 1x missile launcher

Heavy Support

2x dreads with multimelta, dread cc weapon with storm bolter

Storm raven, hurricane bolters, TL lascannons, typhoon missile launcher and bloodstrike missiles.

Pls comment CHEAP changes please.

I won't comment on everything because I am far from an expert player, but I will relay to you some of the information others have given me on these forums-

1. Don't use captains, their point cost is much higher than their worth. Instead, use Librarians with Sanguine Shield and Unleash Rage. When taken with an assault squad they allow you to re-roll all hits during assault and gives you a 5+ cover save for only 125 points!

2. More assault squads, fewer (Possibly no) tactical squads. Flamers and meltas on your assault squads can be good depending on the situation, but I would not put heavy weapons on them. If you want heavy weapons (missile launchers, etc.) take a squad of 5 devs with 4 heavy weapons

3. The storm raven is good and has awesome firepower, but it is surprisingly fragile. Even without the extra d6 on meltas, most anti armor weapons can penetrate av12 with no problem. If you want to use a storm raven make sure you know exactly what you want to get done with it and be very careful and positioning it otherwise you will lose 200 points for nothing.

and personal opinion, but I am not really a fan of Terminators. Blood Angels work well as a fast-paced assault army, so Terminators usually cant keep up. Maybe others have had better luck with them, though.

Moderas wrote:I won't comment on everything because I am far from an expert player, but I will relay to you some of the information others have given me on these forums-

1. Don't use captains, their point cost is much higher than their worth. Instead, use Librarians with Sanguine Shield and Unleash Rage. When taken with an assault squad they allow you to re-roll all hits during assault and gives you a 5+ cover save for only 125 points!

2. More assault squads, fewer (Possibly no) tactical squads. Flamers and meltas on your assault squads can be good depending on the situation, but I would not put heavy weapons on them. If you want heavy weapons (missile launchers, etc.) take a squad of 5 devs with 4 heavy weapons

3. The storm raven is good and has awesome firepower, but it is surprisingly fragile. Even without the extra d6 on meltas, most anti armor weapons can penetrate av12 with no problem. If you want to use a storm raven make sure you know exactly what you want to get done with it and be very careful and positioning it otherwise you will lose 200 points for nothing.

and personal opinion, but I am not really a fan of Terminators. Blood Angels work well as a fast-paced assault army, so Terminators usually cant keep up. Maybe others have had better luck with them, though.

Thanks

elementbender wrote:Hi guys here is my current army, want to expand it cheaply

HQ

Captain with power sword and bolter x2

Elites

10x terminators

Troops

Tactical squad seargeant has chain sword and bolt pistol, 1x flamer, 1x missile launcher


Tactical squad seargeant has chain sword and bolt pistol, 1x flamer, 1x missile launcher

Scout squad five man camo cloaks snipers 1x missile launcher

Heavy Support

2x dreads with multimelta, dread cc weapon with storm bolter

Storm raven, hurricane bolters, TL lascannons, typhoon missile launcher and bloodstrike missiles.

Pls comment CHEAP changes please.

Element

Moderas is right, Captains (Tycho especially) are not worth taking as this chapter. Get a Librarian or another leader worth his point cost!

Blood Angels excel in mobility. Your list doesnt take advantage of mobility except for the very fragile Storm Raven. This list is a decent vanilla Space Marines list - but think about advantages of playing Blood Angels since their units cost more than generic Space Marines. Your costs are higher - while your advantages aren't offsetting.

Even though the Blood Angels Terminators look cool from Space Hulk, they arent mobile unless you drop them in with the SR - and then they should be assault Termies - not shooting!

To play Blood Angels, you must purchase some Death Company and paint them like Assault Squads so they look cool and cost/function well.

In case you been living under a rock 40k isn't cheap therefore look models based upon their usefulness not thier cost wallet and point wise

1: captains suck and two is even worse take libraians instead they support the squad instead of a overpriced champion model

2: ten Terminators! I suppose they're walking via ds. Terminators are ok in this chapter but ten in one squad is ridculius and is going to do jack

Your troop choices are weak for a ba list

theyre vanilla with a 1/6 chance of going crazed and have an extra 15 point ride that goes fast

Not scary at all try assualt squads with priests attached: durable, weapon spam and a cheap ride

Scouts have their ups and downs but Tbo I can see another marine squad being more useful then them in this codex

Yes you are right that dreads are cheap but keeping them cheap is thier downfall

If you want to keep the mm then give them dps so they can make theyre points back otherwise take dual cannons or specialty dreads they bust out moves like no ones business

1 stormraven? With typoon and hurricane bolters? Jaw dropping

You made a good decision to take bolters as they are defensive but taking one is going to sink it

If you want a cheap feedback ether eBay the items that make ba ba or pick up the Sm codex cuz this list is going to get rolled (preferibly deffrolled) by other armys with ease

The typoon is all you but personally I rather have the mm thanks to potms making me destroy one tank and ether fire freely on a mob of boyz or another tank

Do 5 less terminators, instead use 5 sanguinary guard.

More assault squads, no scouts and 1 tactical squad less

% death company.

What are your opinions on taking sanguinary guard as troop choices?

elementbender wrote:What are your opinions on taking sanguinary guard as troop choices?

it can be useful if you have already filled up your elite FOC, but they are expensive and opponents will do alot to make sure they never see combat.

elementbender wrote:What are your opinions on taking sanguinary guard as troop choices?

Sanguinary guard are too expensive and too much of a target to be worth it in my opinion I would just go with an assault squad with jet packs or death company with chaplain in a land raider or rhino.

As above captains are useless which makes me sad because the fluff would compel you to take one in large battles. A librarian is the best HQ unit and Mepheston is the best minus the point cost and the inability to join a unit (what is it about this antisocial guy that he can't even work with his own battle brothers... loner). Now that I have that off my chest and on to another. Terminators are horrid waste of points and waste of an elite slot. I don't get these guys they look amazing on paper but just can't operate on the battlefield. The opponent does one of two things: 1) centralize all fire on them so they die before doing anything and 2) Avoid them so they do nothing as they try to do something (this is a sore subject for me as I love Terminators, I even have 20 of them, but they just do nothing unless I'm in a 3000+ army, though a lightning claw terminator unit with a sanguinary priest and Chaplain is a fearsome squad to deal with although high in points). I find the point are better spent elsewhere in smaller armies.

elementbender wrote:What are your opinions on taking sanguinary guard as troop choices?

It is incredibly fun, but difficult to play. At 1850 I run 4 squads as troops, 3 of them stock and 1 has 5 plasma pistols. Then I have Dante, a Librarian (fear and shield/rage), 2 honor guards with 4 melta and 4 flamers each, and 5 vanguards with 2 fists. The "Bling Wing" is not a popular list on the internet because it takes skill to use, but if you take your time and learn to play it well and correctly, it can be a lot of fun and rewarding to play.

Caboose wrote:

elementbender wrote:What are your opinions on taking sanguinary guard as troop choices?

It is incredibly fun, but difficult to play. At 1850 I run 4 squads as troops, 3 of them stock and 1 has 5 plasma pistols. Then I have Dante, a Librarian (fear and shield/rage), 2 honor guards with 4 melta and 4 flamers each, and 5 vanguards with 2 fists. The "Bling Wing" is not a popular list on the internet because it takes skill to use, but if you take your time and learn to play it well and correctly, it can be a lot of fun and rewarding to play.

Why would you use fear on your Librarian?

Because its fun to push support units like Long Fangs and Lootas that I cant get to off the board. Why cant I use powers that I want?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, before someone chimes in with the "You should always use Shield and Rage on your Librarian, ALWAYS!" arguement. No, I shouldn't. I can only fit one Libby in there, because I have to take Dante, which means that Shield isnt the best choice, because I have to cluster everything together in a nice tight area prime for templates. Rage is only half useful as Sanguinary Guard are already rerolling one of their attacks each turn, and they do enough damage each round to win anyways, so rerolling ALL attacks is not as helpful as it is for a RAS. Fear on the other hand, is quite helpful to reduce the outnumbering factor prevalent with such a small army. Alternatively, it can reduce the amount of supporting fire the enemy has (see previous comment). So thats why I take fear and another power over the 'net crazed Shield and Rage.

I also like taking Fear and Smite, or Lance and Smite, and put him in my plasma squad. He adds another 4 AP2 shots to the mix and either Fear for the above mentioned benefits, or Lance for some added anti-tank that I sometimes have too little of.

Sorry to 'hijack' your thread a bit, but thats my little lesson in thinking about your what psychic powers you take, rather than just taking what the internet says to take.

elementbender wrote:Hi guys here is my current army, want to expand it cheaply

HQ

Captain with power sword and bolter x2

Elites

10x terminators

Troops

Tactical squad seargeant has chain sword and bolt pistol, 1x flamer, 1x missile launcher


Tactical squad seargeant has chain sword and bolt pistol, 1x flamer, 1x missile launcher

Scout squad five man camo cloaks snipers 1x missile launcher

Heavy Support

2x dreads with multimelta, dread cc weapon with storm bolter

Storm raven, hurricane bolters, TL lascannons, typhoon missile launcher and bloodstrike missiles.

Pls comment CHEAP changes please.

Paint one captain in blue, Boom Librarian. Paint one in white, Boom Sanguinary priest.

Get two razorbacks, and find a way to convert some heavy flamers on top(Baal Sidesponson flamers are perfect.) This should cost you about 75-80 bucks depending on what you pay for the flamer parts.

Get a drop pod for one of the Dreads.

Somewhere around 110 bucks total.

Then Play this list.

1500 Points, BA:

HQ
Librarian - Fear of the darkness, Unleash Rage - 100 points

Elite
Terminator Squad - 200 points (Would rather have assault termies, trying to keep it cheap)

Sanguinary Priest - Power weapon, Melta Bombs - 70 points

Troops
Scout Squad - Snipers, Cloaks, ML, Locator beacon, Melta bombs - 130 points

Tac Squad - ML, Flamer, Melta Bombs. - 255
Razorback (EA, HK, TL-HF)

Tac Squad - ML, Flamer, Melta Bombs. - 255
Razorback (EA, HK, TL-HF)

Stormraven - MM, TL-LC, Hurricane Bolts, EA. - 245

Dreadnought - MM - 105

Dreadnought - MM, DP - 140


While it has quite a bit of upgrade padding, and sub optimal units (non-assault termies) this would be deadly in the right generals hands.

Librarian, Priest, Termies load into the SR. Same with the non-DP dread.

Combat squad the Tac-squads, Sarge + Flamer in the razor, ML on backfield objective providing fire support.

Snipers infiltrate wherever.

Have fun, only 110 bucks or so away.

Well heres an Idea
1 liby with shield and rage (jp if you run jumpers).
Fear sucks because no one has terrible leadership.

2 tac squads in a razor is terrible use assault squads for the 35 point discount.

3 Stormravens are always run in multiples.

4 normal dreads there is no point unless you are doing all dread list. Furiosos are better in ever possible way anyone that has used one will tell you blood talons are the most amazing thing you can ever arm a dread with.

5 not going to comment on that last list its kind of nasty and just bah.

If you run razors do all razor spam as in 4 to 5 razors 2 to 3 baal preds and 3 vindis or 3 ac lc preds.

If you run jumpers YOU need priests or you are doomed.

TAC squads are not worth it for BA they are not worth it and they are not good and it goes against fluff so there is no point in them!!!!!

Suggestions

Assault squad (jumpers)

10 marines jp 2 melta guns pf 235 points
done nothing more needs to be added.

Razors
5 assault marines melta las plas razor ( dont have the codex but 165 if im not wrong)

option 2

5 assault marines flamer pw las plas razor 175 (once again dont have codex on me)

Priests are needed for jumpers
All the priest needs is a jp.
He is not a combat character he is a buff he sits at the back and gives furious charge and fnp.

Librarian is the best Hq no questions asked 100 pts 2 psychic powers and a force weapon.

Lib set up

Jumpers
jp shield and rage 125 pts done

razors.
shield and rage or lance 100 pts done.

Hope this helps.

cowpow16 wrote:Fear sucks because no one has terrible leadership.

...

All the priest needs is a jp.
He is not a combat character he is a buff he sits at the back and gives furious charge and fnp.

On your first point, Fear doesnt suck, you use it wrong. "No one has terrible leadership." Well, Id say that Ld 5 and 6 on things like guard and tau, it pretty terrible. Fear gives a -2 to Ld tests... That takes most high leaderships down to average, and average leaderships down to poor... "But Caboose, what about the Stubborn Ld 10 and fearless units out there? Huh? How does it affect those?" Well... You dont use it on them... Duh. Thats where the intelligent use comes from. You think about what can be hurt by it, and use it on that. See now we are thinking a bit...

Your second point there, I disagree. This boils more down to opinion, but again, Im arguing against the internet here. You really should give your priests a power weapon or fist. YES, they are buff characters, YES they are IC's and can be singled out in combat... BUT!!! The IC rule is also why you should give it to them. IC MUST make base contact if at all physically possible. Meaning, even if they are at the back end of your unit, after the closest model contacts the closest enemy model, if your IC has 6" it MUST move into base contact. Thusly, in most cases, your priests are going to be in base contact with the enemy and able to be singled out and/or killed. So, giving them a power weapon of some kind is going to make their four WS5 St5 I5 attacks make a mark in CC. Rather than just dying a horrible death and causing 4 armor saves that may or may not do anything. Its 15 points per priest... not too big of a commitment.

Here is the problem ld down to 8 still isnt that bad and mech lists it has no effect. The only time it has ever done for me and the 2 other players I know have never had success with it no big scary unit will run away or off the table from it that is the sad truth.

IG squads that are not in vehicles are usually large squads (ie 30 man squads to hold the line) with a commissar in it so they wont be going anywhere any time.
Vets will be in vehicles and unaffected by it and command squads have a high enough leadership and are usually no in los.

Im not saying this just to go against you but using rage and shield are much better options the 5 up cover may sound lousy but it has saved my vehicles and my marines many times and has made itself worth while in pretty much every game I have played.

If you keep the priest as far back as you can in a unit he will be unable to make contact first round of combat which is good because most smart players will target him and then your marines die with no fnp.

Sadly the pw has also let me down many times hitting 3 ish times and not wounding once very depressing and then having a 90 point guy die with not doing anything himself.
If at all I might just try on the priest with the lib that has rage maybe will do something.

Just played in a game this weekend, Big scary unit of meganobs, Ran them off the table, single handedly won the game.

Back to actual discussion, what does the OP think of my list?

Tac squads are too useless to use sorry to say and I hope everyone will agree with me because they really are not that great.

I played a game today and I decided to try a pw on the priest the one that is with the liby and yea he did some good i would say that was worth it.

But ya assault marines in a razor is cheaper and better simple as that.

Ravens run in multiples.

Assault termies with 2 lcs are 200 pts too. iw ould go with 2 or 3 with th ss so 210 215 pts.

cowpow16 wrote:Tac squads are too useless to use sorry to say and I hope everyone will agree with me because they really are not that great.

But ya assault marines in a razor is cheaper and better simple as that.

Ravens run in multiples.

Assault termies with 2 lcs are 200 pts too. iw ould go with 2 or 3 with th ss so 210 215 pts.

Agreed.

I think you guys are missing the point where the OP asked for a cheap army upgrade.

Also, Tactical squads are a very valid choice for blood angels, considering 5 assault marines in a razorback are going to die against a real close combat threat just like tactical marines. Except the tactical marines get to have a heavy weapon in the backfield.

Stormravens are to expensive to be run in multiples except at 2500 points. Careful play will keep the raven alive long enough to deliver its cargo and make itself useful.

If those 5 assault marines die in cc then you are doing something wrong and deserve to die (no they dont but to teach you a lesson they do).

So you are saying a tac squad in a razor will survive? because i doubt that and the point of assault marines are the discount on the vehicles.

If you want missiles use devs. If melta you can put those in assault squads same goes for flamers I dont see the point of tac marines....

If you run 1 raven it will get shot down and boom there go 200 pts at least woot and then you have a dread walking and a unit with no jump packs so slow moving heavy hitter that will get shot to pieces....?

Just ignore everything i said and continue saying the same thing over and over again i guess.

Not trying to go off topic but tac marines are not worth it.

For cheap units you could look on ebay and look local trade sites and dakka swap shop.

If going off gw site then vindi I guess its effective and a cool model.

Cow, the OP asked for cheap additions to his army to help him be better. I have given him a suggestion with the price tag of 110 bucks.

I dare you to best my list for that price.

i have found that a mixed style of blood angels army doesnt really work too well ( shooty mech and assault)

first i would say pick a style you would like to play, eg heavy mech, jump pack army (which is a lot of fun)

perhaps proxy some models (cheapest way ) and play test a list against a friend, may help you decide, and also see if anything needs tweaking to make it more effective.

not sure what to suggest specifically for best value competitively and value for money, but perhaps the battleforce? and try mixing things up a bit with the bits you get inside, also ebay for jump packs etc.

priests and librarians are probably the most effective IC in the blood angels dex, making your units hit harder and faster, which is what BA are best at.

not sure if ive actually helped a great deal :S sorry if i havent lol

Okay I just wanna drop in my 2 cents. I will say right now that I haven't read the whole thread, but seeing as I just played a BA player not too long ago and you're asking, I'll answer.

Don't over-look Mephiston if you can work him in points-wise. I just played BA in 1500 point list and that little man chewed through 2 combat squads of marines like butter. I eventually had to just throw cheap units at him to slow him down. There wasn't really any killing him if I wanted to deal with anything else on the table. Use him correctly (IE combine him as a pressure-point and have a few other pressure-points to keep massed fire off of him) and this little HQ can go a long way.

However, I don't play BA and haven't looked through your dex enough to know if he will be viable points-wise in your list, so feel free to toss what I said by the way-side.

Haha mephiston such an angry man fits blood angles perfectly angry woot.

Point being with what he has to be effective tac squads are not worth it I would say at this point for building a cheap army get another tac squad and a rhino paint em red call em blood angles and play them as normal marines from the space marine codex.

My friend and I have tried so hard to make tac marines worth it in a ba army we had no success we tried in rhinos we tried drop pods on foot its just you dont get to use any blood angle fun stuff without paying way too many points or without your army being a space marine amry with mephiston.

cowpow16 wrote:Haha mephiston such an angry man fits blood angles perfectly angry woot.

Point being with what he has to be effective tac squads are not worth it I would say at this point for building a cheap army get another tac squad and a rhino paint em red call em blood angles and play them as normal marines from the space marine codex.

My friend and I have tried so hard to make tac marines worth it in a ba army we had no success we tried in rhinos we tried drop pods on foot its just you dont get to use any blood angle fun stuff without paying way too many points or without your army being a space marine amry with mephiston.

Stelek posted this list on his blog a while back. I honestly think this is one of the most brutal lists BA can make.

It includes Tactical Squads. Just look at it and tell me you don't see the power in that.

1 Librarian, 100 pts (Fear of the Darkness; Shield of Sanguinius)
1 …in Power Armour

1 Sanguinary Priest, 150 pts
1 Sanguinary Priest in Power Armour
1 Sanguinary Priest in Power Armour
1 Sanguinary Priest in Power Armour

9 Tactical Squad, 240 pts (Meltagun; Missile Launcher)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Razorback (Twin Linked Heavy Flamer)

9 Tactical Squad, 240 pts (Meltagun; Missile Launcher)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Razorback (Twin Linked Heavy Flamer)

9 Tactical Squad, 240 pts (Meltagun; Missile Launcher)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Razorback (Twin Linked Heavy Flamer)

9 Tactical Squad, 240 pts (Meltagun; Missile Launcher)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Razorback (Twin Linked Heavy Flamer)

9 Tactical Squad, 240 pts (Meltagun; Missile Launcher)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Razorback (Twin Linked Heavy Flamer)

6 Devastator Squad, 182 pts (Plasma Cannon x4)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)

6 Devastator Squad, 182 pts (Plasma Cannon x4)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)

6 Devastator Squad, 182 pts (Plasma Cannon x4)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)

2000 points

you cant have tac squads with razorbacks

they cant fit i thought we discussed this already in this thread

there by making this list illegal

Can you not combat squad them and jam them in them? i dont quite know I used to run razor spam so stuffed 5 assault marines in a razor and told the driver to gun it

Lets see some ba fun looking through a pile of old lists....

Liby 100
shield and rage or lance.

Assault squad 165
melta las plas razor

Assault squad 165
melta las plas razor

Assault squad 165
melta las plas razor

Assault squad 165
melta las plas razor

Assault squad 160
flamer assault cannon razor

Assault squad 160
flamer assault cannon razor

Baal pred 145
hb sponsons assault cannons

Baal pred 145
hb sponsons assault cannons

vindicator 145

vindicator 145

vindicator 145

Thats 1805 so far

Lets look at the check list
4 lcs check
4 twin ac check
4 melta guns check
4 twin plasma guns check
3 pie plates check
4 hb check

That sounds like fun

then we could always go with vets in a razor woot or 3 speeders 2 with mm hf and 1 with hb hf if the speeders change 1 razor to an assault cannon one with a flamer assault squad and we have a nasty army.

I think this is a little more hard hitting.