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Ahoy.

I've just picked up the IG codex with a view to starting a guard army. Ive drafted up a 500pt list for the first chunk of stuff I'm planning on buying, thing is, I have very little experience with guard, I've never played them, or played against them, so I was wondering if anyone could offer me a few pointers with regards to the list I've presented? Cheers.



Company Command Squad - 65
Plasma pistol
2 flamers

Infantry Platoon

Platoon Comand Squad – 40
2 flamers

Infantry Squad – 85
Las/plas

Infantry Squad – 85
Las/plas


Veteran Squad – 145
2 meltaguns
Chimaira

2 Scout Sentinels - 80
Autocannons

Total 500

I think it's ok for first 500 points. You should skip the plasma pistol on your commander in favor for a third meltagun on your vets. That plasma pistol is not something he wants to fire at all. Also, plasma guns in regular infantry squads isn't really worth it. I also prefer ACs over Lascannons in infantry squads. When you increase the points there are better long range anti-tank options.

Thanks.

I was thinking that about the lascannons myself, but I wanted some reliable high strength/low ap long ranged stuff in the list. What would you advocate swapping the plasma guns in the inf. platoon for?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/5th_Edition_Imperial_Guard_Codex_HQ_Review_%28Polonius%29

This would be a very good place to start reading more about IG units and their effectiveness.

Also I would recommend planning one style of IG regiment, mech, blob, etc.

I have read the 5e tactica articles, this list was mostly based on what I read there, although I was admittedly making it from memory without referencing the article directly.

What are the pros & cons of each style?

I would suggest throwing in flamers or grenade launchers for the plasma guns in the inf squads. I'll be honest with you I haven't played guard much either but I have played against them and have been doing research and my own guard army that I'm starting. The main reason to take grenade launchers or flamers is that they're cheap, and when your BS is 3, you're not going to be making too many shots so those plasma shots will go to waste half the time. Save those expensive special weapons for veterans in a vet squad or a CCS, where the BS of 4 will allow those shots to count.

pretty good list at 500. i would rather throw in a LR exterminator somewhere, but, thats just me.

Well, if you want to design an infantry blob, I'd go autocannons (Infantry based armies work on sheer numbers)

A mech based army, go veterans in chimeras instead of infantry platoons (As far as I can tell this is the most powerful kind of IG army atm)

Or a leafblower army (You'll want leman russes for this)

But at points this low, templates can be a big bonus, go grenade launcher/autocannon in your infantry, more meltas on the vets. At this point cost AV 14 or 2+ saves are unlikel, so I wouldn't worry about lascannons

Funk3140 wrote:http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/5th_Edition_Imperial_Guard_Codex_HQ_Review_%28Polonius%29

This would be a very good place to start reading more about IG units and their effectiveness.

Also I would recommend planning one style of IG regiment, mech, blob, etc.

There are flaws in that review, since it was a preview when the book first came out. If you use it, use it as a guideline, not a bible. Re-read all the rules concerning those units you do select. Read the orders rules and read the corrisponding rules in the base rule book (ordinance, ICs in a unit, ect). Also remember it is his opinion on how effective those units are. He gives Ratlings high marks, but for the most part sniper rifles suck because they don't ignore armor. 2/3 chance to hit, good chance to wound, no real armor penetration... and the most common army you face are Marines with a 3+ armor save. There are plenty of things that live off of their Toughness and little armor (wraithlord, big nids, ogryns, orks), but they all do have armor and alot more things that do live off their armor or a combination of armor and Toughness (Marines). Same goes with Grenade Launchers... Str 3 Frag? Str 6 Krack with AP 4? Again, Marines laugh at either shot and you have to roll out of your mind to hurt anything with a AV. Oh yeah, and most of the launchers are BS3. His opinon, my opinon... take each with a grain of salt.

You will find out what style of IG you want to play once you play them. IG is one of the most flexible codexs made where it has multiple play styles that are competitive. You will also find some units work better against some armies than others. Maybe you will play against alot of T3 foot slogging armies so GLs are now a viable option. Same goes with sniper rifles and certain foes, say Demons for example.

Good luck and enjoy the Guard...be all that you can be!

But at points this low, templates can be a big bonus, go grenade launcher/autocannon in your infantry, more meltas on the vets. At this point cost AV 14 or 2+ saves are unlikel, so I wouldn't worry about lascannons

I will point out that a IG list at 500points can look like this...

CCS - 60pts
2x Flamers

Vets - 70pts

Vets - 70pts

2x Leman Russ - 300pts

With a list like that you just march up following the tanks or you sit back and use 'FRF, SRF!' on each Vet unit for a total of 40 lasgun shots at 24" or 60 shots at 12" (or split on two different units)... oh yeah, those shots are all BS 4. Your going to hit with alot, which you need since inflicting wounds and them making saves will cut down that number quite a bit. Flamers are for those pesky cover saves or deep strikers (since they bunch up so nice). The Russes can fire both their heavy bolter and their cannon, even if they move 6" due to Lumbering Behemoth rule vs the Ordinance rules in the BRB. Just remember that each tank can not split it's fire and they are BS3. Put the troops in cover and within 12" of the CCS and at 500pts you have a formidable gun-line that will make Marines 2nd guess getting close.

Your idea of two russes sounds pretty formidable Blktom.

I think I'm going to forego them to start with however, mainly because (unwise, I know) I really love the sentinel models, and I'm not playing in a competitive environment, so I'm not going to be facing optimised builds.

What is your advice with regards to platoons v vet squads? Vet squads have the advantage of BS 4, but they strike me as being quite fragile due to being a ten man squad. I'd never run a 10 man unit of boyz with my orks. Does the same kind of thing apply here?

Vets and platoons play differently. Vets are more Quality over Quantity (relatively) while platoons find their strength in numbers.

Which to pick really depends on what you want to do with your army

I might go down the Vets route then, I did the whole 'infantry horde' thing with my Orks. I dont know if I can be arsed to paint another entire horde just yet. & the idea of BS4 appeals.

Get rid of the lascannons in your infantry squads, maybe put one in the CCS, but instead ad in a HWS with autocannons. With a good order roll they will take down vehicles and chew through horde armies. My 500pt list would probably go:

CCS (lascannon)- 70
PCS (autocannon)- 40
Infantry Blob (2 squads, 2 autocannons, commisar)-195
Veteran squad (3x flamer)- 85
Leman Russ- 150

Total- 500

The CCS and Platoon group up, the CCS orders the platoon so you can take out anything to come at you, while the commisar means that if charge your blob won't run away after taking a couple of wounds (this happens, trust me!)
The Leman Russ will make your opponent crap himself as unless he gets into combat with it or a melta unit up close it will be hard to destroy (just don't let this happen). The veterans can then go off and fry a unit on the flank.

This build would be really good in CoD I think as you could create firing lanes with the LRBT and Platoon and sweep up with the Veterans...

Sentinels can be pretty good, don't underestimate them. A 50pt scout sentinel can come on and take out tanks that cost 3+ times as much.

somecallmeJack wrote:

What is your advice with regards to platoons v vet squads? Vet squads have the advantage of BS 4, but they strike me as being quite fragile due to being a ten man squad. I'd never run a 10 man unit of boyz with my orks. Does the same kind of thing apply here?

To be frank, it depends on how you want to play your guard. Both are 10 man squads, the only thing less are 5 man command squads (CCS and PCS). I will not cover elites and rough riders, just focusing on the troop choices. The whole deal with boyz is you want 12+ for Fearless. Most Ork players tend toward melee due to the BS2 and squads that big just don't fit in vehicles (Battlewagon holds 20 without a killacannon, trukks 12, ect). Orks have the same armor, but are tougher and stronger. Their PKs are Str 8 vs a IG Fist at 6. Orks get bolters while Guard get lasguns. They are really very... ying/yang to each other.

Vet squads are able to have 3 special weapons, BS 4, and doctrines (if you so choose them). Standard tactic is to give them 3 Melta or Plasma guns and mount them up in a Chimera and take off hunting vehicles. Alot of people use just Vets for mech Guard and want to overwhelm their foes with melta/plasma shots while moving around at 6". Another general rule is to not bother putting more than one doctrine on the Vets. I don't nessarily agree with this, as the people who back that treat them as throw away units and need to points to get more to replace those losses.
Base cose is 70pts.

Normal platoons you have to buy a PCS and at least two infantry platoons to go with it. Standard platoon infantry squads are more like a marine tactical squad as each squad can have a heavy and a special weapon. These platoon infantry squads (not the PCS though) can blob up to form one unit, thus the blob tactic. Since you can have 5 platoon squads, you can even run two blobs of 2 and 3 or one 50 man blob. You can't mount this blob, so you put heavy weapons and a special weapon per squad to give the blob 2-5 (depending on the number of units) heavy and special weapon shots. For those who want a melee tarpit unit, you look at Commissars and give them and the sergeants power weapons. A Commissar gives them stubborn. This is the IG version of the standard 24+ ork mob, minus the Fearlessness. But... a Platoon now allows you to take things like Special weapons squads, heavy weapon squads, and conscripts. For one troop choice you can get /alot/ of boots on the ground and /alot/ of firepower. Your just looking at /alot/ of Ld7 guys.
Base minimum cost/size, your looking at having 3 units for 130pts.

The third troop choice are Penal Squad troops. They are a wild card with their random ability and you can't put them in a Chimera. They don't get special weapons or heavy weapons, but their base leadership is 8. I would not dabble with them... they can be used as shock troops, but Conscripts might do that job better. They might be good en-mass with Priests, but there is a reason why most poeple avoid them. Still, I am glad they are there, options are options.
Base cost is 80pts.

The real big difference is that Guard get Orders and a slew of special characters. There is a reason why alot of Guard players do not worry about leadership, when even Vets have a base 7. They either assume the unit is destroyed and absorb the losses or have characters out there like Straken, Lord Commissars and Yarrik who increase leadership values in a bubble around them. With the right special characters, you can make a mech blitz-krieg army, a gun-line army, a leaf-blower army (lots of indirect/artillery), a pure Mech army (9 Leman Russ tanks please!) or even an assault army (blobs, geared out vets, wave attacks, suicide units, ect). IG really have a ton of vesitility. You can make a tactical Vet squad that is decent at alot of different roles on the battlefield, but the points add up to do this. For example, foot slogging vets will want armor, maybe even demolitions incase they run into a walker/vehicle/MC. Giving a unit like that 3 plasma guns and you have a very effective unit that can deal with alot of tactical situations. The problem with this is that they are now very expensive, pushing 175pts. Grenaiders and Sentries gives them Flamer protection and hefty cover saves, meaning people will have to root them out via assault.

If you like your Sentinals, consider out-flanking them. If you like to out-flank units, build your army around it. Here is an example...

CCS - 310pts
Creed
Kell
plasmagun
Lascannon
Astropath
Camo Cloaks

PCS -200pts (Out-flanking)
Al'Rahem
3x plasmaguns
Chimera

PIS - 115pts (Out-flanking)
Meltagun
Chimera

PIS - 115pts (Out-flanking)
Meltagun
Chimera

Special Weapon Squad - 65pts (In Vendetta, Out-flanking)
3x Meltaguns

Vets - 160pts
3x Melta
Sentries
Grenaiders

Vets - 160pts
3x Melta
Sentries
Grenaiders

PCS - 50pts
4x Flamers

PIS - 70pts (blobbed)
Meltagun
Auto-Cannon

PIS - 70pts (blobbed)
Meltagun
Auto-Cannon

HWS - 75pts
3x Auto-Cannons

HWS - 75pts
3x Auto-Cannons

HWS - 75pts
3x Auto-Cannons

2x Scout Sentnials squad - 80pts (Out-flanking)
Auto-Cannon

2x Scout Sentnials squad - 80pts (Out-flanking)
Auto-Cannon

Vendetta - 130pts (Out-Flanking)

Leman Russ Vanquisher - 170pts (Out-flanking via Creed)
Lascannon

= 2000pts

Blob squad, Heavy Weapon squads, and the Vets all hang back sitting in cover and shoot at the enemy long range to draw them in, using Creed's LD 10 for Bring it Down!. As the Enemy advances the out-flanking units come on and get side/rear shots on the enemy Mech and/or attack rear heavy weapon units. Creed, Al'Rahem and the Astropath are the key units that the list is built around, with out-flanking units being the key tactic. Classic pincer/ hammer and anvil tactics being used.

@BLKTom- Thats brillaint advice, but pretty useless for 500pts which is what is going on here...

Heh... the goal is to show him what to look at in the long run. To help him figure out what IG build works best for his style of play. The 500pts, as stated in his first post, is just a goal and a building block to a larger army.