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This is the quick draft of an army list I'm shooting for with my Guard. I plan on expanding once I get my initial thousand points worth, and I'm basing it off of two battleforce boxes (one being the old battleforce, which came with a LRBT instead of command squad/sentinal). I want a foot based army, with a few transports, not a mech army. Give me any and all criticism and suggestions.


HQ

Company Command Squad
Power weapon, Medi-pack

TROOPS

Platoon

PCS
Power weapon

Inf Squad
Flamer Vox

Inf Squad
Grenade Launcher, Vox

Inf Squad
Grenade Launcher, Vox

Heavy Weapons Squad
3 Lascannons

Heavy Weapons Squad
3 Lascannons

Vet Squad
3 Meltaguns, Chimera

HEAVY SUPPORT

Leman Russ Battle Tank
Lascannon, Heavy Bolter sponsons, Dozer blade

Leman Russ Battle Tank
Lascannon

TOTAL 1035 pts

Come on, anybody?

In a smaller battle the 6 lascannons might be overkill. You have 2 Leman Russes that can bring plenty of anti tank to bear. Your weapon platforms are not mobile and fast targets you will want to hit like skimmers will just avoid them.I would drop a squad for some more anti horde and anti meq.

Your power weapon on your company commander is ok, just remember its S3, maybe not the best use of 10 points.

Since your going on foot, take advantage of move move move to hop from cover to cover. Your chimera will draw a lot of fire, but you can use that to your advantage.

Hrmmm, well what do you advise I use for anti horde and anti MEQ? I figured the lascannon HWT's would be good for taking down MEQ, and large amounts of lasgun fire for anti horde. What do you suggest I use instead? I'll have a sentinel from my second battle force box, maybe that?

Doesn't look too bad. Foot guard can be really powerful especially at this point level. If you want to go this route I'd leave out chimeras for now. Foot with tanks example:

CCS, lascannon
LC

PCS, 4 flamers
IS, pw, meltabombs, commissar, pw
IS, pw, meltabombs
HWS lascannons
HWS lascanonns
vets, 3 plasma

LRBT
LRBT

Have the CCS, LC, HWTs, and vets sit on your objective and hit whatever you can with directed lascannon fire at LD 10. The blob uses the tanks as cover while advancing in sync. Once you get in range use the blob to mop up whatever the lascannon and battle cannon fire hasn't destroyed.

Once you want to go to 1500 and up then get some chimeras. If you also add in another tank they will take the heat of your chimeras. 1500 list along the same lines and trying to use things from the battleforce boxes:

CCS, lascannon
LC

PCS, 4 flamers
IS, pw, meltabombs, commissar, pw
IS, pw, meltabombs
IS, pw, meltabombs
HWT lascannons
HWT lascanonns

vets, 3 plasma, chimera
vets, 3 plasma, chimera

sentinel, multilaser
sentinel, multilaser

LRBT
LRBT
LRBT

Hrmmm, I don't really like the idea of flamers with guard because to get within range you're going to get assaulted so I don't know about that for the PCS. As far as the infantry squads, meltabombs? You suggest getting them into assault with walkers/vehicles? Interesting...and no special weapons for the infantry squads either? And why plasma guns for the vets, as MEQ killers?

The blobs have meltabombs just in case a walker TRIES to tie them up in assault and as backup against any vehicles it encounters. For 5 points a piece its a good buy. No special weapons because they are for combat.... just shield for your three pw's. If you play correctly the lascannon fire and LRBT should have broken up any vehicles/infantry formations. Use the blob to take out any survivors. Trust me these guys will eat through any infantry you encounter. Honestly, the only reason your bringing the PCS is because you have to as its part of the platoon with the blob. Giving them 4 flamers is a cheap way to maybe make them useful. Another alternative is 4 meltas but you may need to play with the points.

The vets have plasma guns because they are S7 AP2 and 24 inch range. If something gets close/deepstrikes rapid fire and BiD with six plasma shots is going to take care of it. Also with 10 bodies its a bit more durable than the lascannon HWSs. Might as well give them some solid guns.

I think you need some autocannons in that list if you're on foot.

I always figured meltavets in a chimera would be solid for anti tank. And why autocannons, for anti transport?

Autocannons may not be as strong, but are better against a wide variety of targets than a lascannon, mainly due to the extra shot. Helping you hit more transports, Monstrous creatures, heavy infantry units ect.
As far as melta vets vs plasma vets, both are good, but just for different things. In smaller point games the melta vets might be unnecessary cause your opponent should not be bringing that much armor to bear, nothing your tanks and Lascannons cant handle. Plasma vets will make quick work of Marines

I like your grenade launchers, I would keep em.

Yeah the only reason I have one infantry squad with a flamer is because I modeled it with that before I realized I wouldn't want a flamer I may chop it off and put a GL on him. Thanks a lot for your input everybody! I'll definitely try to get a HWS of autocannons.

Ok.

Keep the meltavets in the chimera. Ditch all the vox, and medipack. keep the tanks the way they are. Switch at least one lascannon team to an autocannon team.

Next, switch the grenade launchers with either flamers, or meltaguns. If you take plasma, be warned they get hot, and you cannot assault. The flamer beats the pants off the grenade launcher due to it always hitting. Yes you have to get closer, but the idea is to assault the enemy after you flame them.

Put meltabombs, plasma pistol, and power weapon on your sgt. in each squad. This way you can do damage in hth, and can hit back if something large like a dread assaults your squad. or you can harrass tanks.

do not underestimate flamers. they are useful, and if you position your unit right, you can get alot of wounds. and, they auto hit. something nice in a low BS army.

Also, think about meltaguns in the CCS. BS4 should not go to waste.

A good thing to remember my friend is you are guard. Anytime you can give a power fist over a power weapon. You are generally going last in CC anyway so why not make your attacks count?

Always consider armor over weapons teams. Weapon teams are good, but they lack mobility. Also too much of anything is never a good thing. With 6 lascannons you'll find yourself shooting them at squads of infantry because you are out of good targets for them.

Vox casters aren't so hot... save the points.

CountDeath wrote:I think you need some autocannons in that list if you're on foot.

I have to agree, the autocannons would provide some decent anti-heavy infantry, and help your guard survive a little longer.

Personally I prefer all verterans in the troop choices, but then that's just me.

Will20017

I don't know, I haven't played guard much at all, but I really don't like the idea of gearing them towards assault...maybe some weapons in case they get assaulted, but I'd rather keep the army shooty. I'm sure you can all make good arguments as to how guard can be effective in assault, but I want a powerful ranged army.

I see that you dont really want a close combat army, but for foot guard, Straken is amazing. He makes a mass infantry charge actually effective

The idea I am getting from you is that you want to sit back and fire on your foe and make them march through your weapons. You have plenty of options to do that...

First off, let me explain some of your weapon load-outs that have been mentioned...

Meltabombs. You get one attack with them, no matter how many attacks you would normally have. If your attacked by a walker, you only hit on a 6 (with any grenade to be fair). You have three options for dealing with a walker... hope you roll a 6 with a grenade attack, get a Priest and his chainfist, or shoot the damn thing before it gets in combat with you.

Grenade Launchers. Str 3 frag, Str 6 AP4 krak. Frag isn't going to hurt anything and krak will still allow power armor saves, really making it less than ideal. Great, you can kill a Ork at 36", but that is about it.

I will say this, every special weapon slot you have, you will want to fill. Every BS 4 special weapon slot in particular. Melta and/or plasma. Throw your flamers, if you choose to take them, on BS 3 units to make sure they hit.

If your going to play with Orders, consider Creed due to him having 4 orders per turn. I prefer to use him with Kell, but some people don't. Straken is excellent advice because he has a Stubborn bubble to prevent units from running. A Regimental Standard will give you a re-roll moral bubble as well. A Lord Commissar also has a Stubborn bubble and allows units close to it to use the Lord's Ld 10 for Orders and moral checks. The Lord Commissar and Straken can give you alot of cover. If you do take Straken, consider the Standard and meltaguns over plasmaguns, so if you do assault you can.

Having a few Lascannons to give you long range heavy AT combined with 'Bring it Down!' can make them more reliable via twin-linked with that BS 3 (for heavy weapons squads). Auto-Cannons at Str 7 and two shots are great transport poppers and good anti-hoard. This is why people are suggesting them, because you will face a ton of Rhinos, Chimeras, ect and they are good at taking them down, allowing your LCs to fire on AV 12+ vehicles.

For your Russ with sponsons, read Lumbering Behemoth... if you move, you can only fire one weapon besides the battle cannon/turret. Sponsons count as individual weapons, so you can fire the LC, or a single sponson if you move. If you stand still, you still only fire one weapon because the battle cannon is ordinance, which wouldn't allow you to fire any other weapons, but because of lumbering behemoth you can fire one other weapon. Only way to fire the sponsons and the hull mounted weapon is if you don't fire the Battle Cannon (or any turret weapon that counts as ordinance).

As for power weapons, I agree with the statement of Str 3, Init 3. Sure, in a blob you might survive 2-3 CC rounds to maybe hit a few marines, but you wound on a 5+. That is why the powerfist is suggested... Str 6, Init 1 but at least you will wound marines if you hit and thus actually kill them.

Medpacks, while cool to give your CCS FNP, just costs way to much. You could go medpack plus three plasmaguns in a command squad, but getting carapace armor or Cammo Cloaks really give you the same protection from 'Gets Hot!' and does a better job to protect the unit from incoming fire.

Read up on the orders, read up on the rules effecting your units. Good luck and have fun!

Man, I'm too used to 3rd and 4th edition rules. I hate those little nuances with 5th edition...thanks for pointing that out about the sponsons. Anyways, your post was very helpful. I've already assembled everything for my first battleforce (2 infantry squads, 3 lascannon teams, and one LRBT w/ las and heavy bolter sponsons), but I think ill go with this for the second battleforce box

CCS
Power Fist, 4x Plasma Guns (possibly carapace armor/camo cloaks)

Inf Squad
Grenade Launcher (I still feel the strength 6 will help me take down slightly tougher models, and i hope to stay out of flamer range)

Inf Squad
Grenade Launcher

HWS
3 Autocannons

Sentinel with gun left unglued so i can swap out whatever I want


Notice this isn't an army list...just a plan for assembling the special weapons for my next battleforce so I'm not stuck with guns glued on that I won't be using.

I suggest magnets then for your Sentinel weapons, as it allows you more versitility for the model. Most people will tell you Auto-Cannon though as the best weapon for the Sentinal due to how easy it is to get popped. The theory with the scout Sentinals is you outflank them and when they get on you hopefully get rear/side armor shots with them.

Something else I will advise is find some tutorials on toutube for using magnets and magnitise your special weapons troops to really give you some versitility with your models and save you some money on getting 4 of this and 4 of that and having a bunch of guys that don't even see the battlefield. Trust me, I lament the fact that all of my current guard heavy weapons are from back in the day when they were all shoulder mounted, not on a big base. So now I use a big base and magnitize them to the big base.

I understand your thoughts with the Squads, but GLs suck so bad IMO I would rather use melta or plasma guns. Plasma is probally the better choice if you want to avoid flamer range. If your gonna sit back and make a gunline-ish Guard, you may want to consider Blobbing your Infantry squads and giving them a heavy weapon, probably a AC. If your worried about being assaulted, look at getting power weapons for your sergents. you can look at a Commissar or two for two reasons... one reason is even one Commissar in the blob gives it Stubborn and better leadership. The other reason is to pack on more power weapons. You do this to stop Vanguard Vets and other deep striking units from just tearing through your squad like nothing.

Just remember that you can't add in anything /but/ Platoon Infantry Squads in a blob.

There are alot of people who sit back with Vet squads instead. Since they can't blob, people look at using doctrines instead. Vets can have 3 special weapons and have BS 4, so tying them down with a heavy weapon limits their mobility, but with Cammo cloaks, a AC and 3 plasmaguns or sniper rifles (though I dislike Sniper rifles as well, I can see the merit of them for this role) they can make a hell of an objective camper.

Hope this gives you some ideas...

I know you want to stay out of assault range, but remember that a battle isn't just you. You're playing an opponent. Said opponent may not want to stay out of assault as much as you so you always need to be able to deal with it when it comes.

For instance nids have spore pods, marines have drop-pods, and lots of things have deep-strike. CC is just something you have to prepare for whether you like it or not.

With this in mind I would suggest the PFs in any slot available (though not every slot if you can fit more than one thing in a unit). I say this because if you're hit by a walker in CC and you don't have anything to deal with it then your squad is done. Also what has been said before: you're probably going to be going second in the combat anyway, so a PF's Int 1 doesn't matter.

I know you don't really wanna hear about assault, but you're Guard. Your shooting strategies have pretty much been covered, and let's face it, Guard's shooting is more-or-less straight forward. That's why you're hearing about assault. Dealing with your army's weakness will help it just as much as upping it's strengths.

-Cypher- wrote:I know you want to stay out of assault range, but remember that a battle isn't just you. You're playing an opponent. Said opponent may not want to stay out of assault as much as you so you always need to be able to deal with it when it comes.

For instance nids have spore pods, marines have drop-pods, and lots of things have deep-strike. CC is just something you have to prepare for whether you like it or not.

With this in mind I would suggest the PFs in any slot available (though not every slot if you can fit more than one thing in a unit). I say this because if you're hit by a walker in CC and you don't have anything to deal with it then your squad is done. Also what has been said before: you're probably going to be going second in the combat anyway, so a PF's Int 1 doesn't matter.

I know you don't really wanna hear about assault, but you're Guard. Your shooting strategies have pretty much been covered, and let's face it, Guard's shooting is more-or-less straight forward. That's why you're hearing about assault. Dealing with your army's weakness will help it just as much as upping it's strengths.

That is a very good point, and I have been kicking around ideas about last ditch weapons for assault. I mainly just didn't want to gear all my infantry squads for one huge assault blob....I wanted to keep my Guard shooty oriented.