prices prices prices

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**Tigerone**

I just don’t get it?! I mean really the last few weeks it seems like the world if ending because of a simple price hike. This is only my opinion:
This is not a necessity in life it is a luxury.
You get a lot of value for your money….wait a minute I know you are going to scream at that …but look at it like this…. A box of space marines in the US $37.25….What do you get for that? Weeks if not months of putting them together and painting them. How long can you use that squad? Well FOREVER! 20 years from now those marines will still be usable and by what I see from most people still unpainted or half assembled. Seems to me that’s a lot of value.

I like this argument…If they lower the prices it would be good for the hobby and I would buy more.
I think not. This is a fringe type of activity it attracts young people or the strange smelly people (not everyone falls into this group) that have no money to start with. That is the core problem with the constant moaning it’s not that it’s too expensive you’re broke.

So let’s break it down like this:

Average person buys one new army a year at $800 to $1000 dollars. Out of that you get hundreds of hours modeling painting before you even think about the time actually playing the game. Plus the enjoyment of the constant bitching you get to do from everything about cheesy armies ect….
Name one other hobby that you can do this with?

I spend close to 5k a year just playing golf that does not include the clubs….

Is it expensive playing with GW stuff? Sure but if you haven’t noticed EVERYTHING cost a lot more than it used to.

**ShivanAngel**

**Ugavine**

Well I agree with Tigerone.

Petrol prices have gone up a heck of a lot recently.
Gas & Electricity are expected to go up 50% in the next two years.
Interests rates are expected to rise shortly in the UK, there's a nice rise in Mortgage payments.
All the local sandwich shops have all put the prices up.
Train prices are going up again.

Oh yeah, and then there's Games Workshop. Pretty low on the agenda to me. I'll still buy what I can afford if it will bring me some enjoyment and take my mind off all the other price rises.

**SoloFalcon1138**

Notice the deafening silence of this thread. A little sense goes nowhere on the Internet.

But I couldn't agree more with the OP.

A bad economy sucks, everyone knows this, but it's a part of life. Luxury purchases are the first to suffer. Once they kick in, people will learn to deal, then the complaints will be back to normal, whining about quality and no minis for certain units.

**Vandil**

Ugavine wrote:
Oh yeah, and then there's Games Workshop. Pretty low on the agenda to me.

Compared to say food, gas, heat, electricity, and a roof over your head. All of which have gotten more expensive over the last few years. All the extra expense has come out of my spending cash. I can only cut the essentials so far, they're must haves, GW mini's aren't.

The king of dollar per hour value entertainment ?
NETFLIX.

**kronk**

Why did this need it's own thread?

**biccat**

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Notice the deafening silence of this thread. A little sense goes nowhere on the Internet.

Do you think it might be because there are a bajillion (sciency!) other threads on this topic already?

The public response to GW's price increases generally follows a set pattern:

Denial - GW wouldn't do this, these are just unfounded rumors.
Anger - Why is GW doing this? It doesn't make any sense!
Bargaining - I'll spend the same amount, but fewer models/other game systems.
Depression - This is the end of The Hobby, woe is us!
Acceptance - GW's prices are a good thing.

It happens every time. And there are always people who are willing to rationalize the price increases of GW.

**infinite_array**

You're only taking a single part of the problem, and making it seem as if that's only thing people are complaining about.

Let's see you justify GW"s embargo on Australia and New Zealand.

Or charging more for Finecast, which they've claimed to have cost them less.

And Kronk's correct. This didn't need its own thread. The 'deafening silence' is people ignoring the thread, because this already has been brought up before.

**Kilkrazy**

If you want to discuss the price of groceries and petrol, I would suggest that a houseperson's chat site is the wrong place to be doing it.

You will get a lot more responses by going on a specialist wargaming site that concentrates on GW games.

**Howard A Treesong**

kronk wrote:Why did this need it's own thread?

Presumably because the OP thinks their point is so profound it deserves one. I'm sure these points have been made in the other many many threads so far. Certainly GW is a luxury product but that doesn't mean indiscriminate pricing is acceptable, there's still a limit as to what is reasonable. When people have invested into a hobby and feel they are being given poor service by the company then they have a valid complaint, or perhaps customer's opinions mean nothing? Just because you sell a luxury product does not mean you can take a 'my way or the highway' approach to customer relations, not if you want to succeed as a business.

And the concept of a 'luxury product' works both ways. These are not Cartier wristwatches being sold to people with bottomless pockets, they are toy soldiers relying on a large customer base. People can easily do without luxury items so pissing off your customer base might not be a a wise strategy.

**gloomygrim**

Tigerone wrote: I spend close to 5k a year just playing golf that does not include the clubs….

This is why the price rise doesnt bother you, you got 5k a year to spend on playing golf, buying minis and living lucky you, folks who have well paid jobs and can spend 5k on something its fine a few £/$ more is nothing but change, but if you have a standard job and have a wife and kids to look after dont have the luxary of spending 5k a year on anything and that few £/$ change to you is to the rest of us either yes we can buy it or its to much to spend on a plastic soldier.

The people in the world who are better off than regular working class people have no right to complain about money when they have no idea what its like to have enough to live on and buy a model/box once a month if there lucky.

**Eilif**

The OP doesn't seem to think there are good reasons for griping about GW prices. Others may disagree with me, and that's ok, but here are a few good reasons to gripe about GW prices.

1) Fear that due to rising prices GW will collapse and folks will lose the hobby they love. Not an unjustified fear if reports about GW's # of active customers are to be believed.

2) Frustration over high dividends given by the GW board (essentially doubling the salary of the CEO) while hobby store staff are cut and price raises are given to GW fans.

3) Distress at no longer being able to afford GW models. Many really like the hobby and were at one time better able to afford the hobby.

4) Feeling misled by a company who switches materials to cut costs and then raises the cost to the consumer.

5) The general feeling that rising prices have been accompanied by less and less attention paid to fans.

6) Observations of the many ways GW has realigned their games to provide more profit. Examples: changing codicies to "nerf" certain units, Making codicies more exclusive (removing allies ,etc).

7) Charging fans based on game "usefullness" rather than on cost to produce or materials. Why does a 10 year old sculpt of Dante cost almost 20 bucks...

8) Fans of other games and miniature lines using the comparison of GW"s rediculous prices and practices to lure GW'philes into other more friendly and affordable parts of the miniature gaming hobby. I fall into this catagory.

Anywho, there could be separate threads on all of these, but if anyone just "doesn't get" why folks complain about prices, perhaps the above list will be a guide.

**infinite_array**

gloomygrim wrote:
Tigerone wrote: I spend close to 5k a year just playing golf that does not include the clubs….

This is why the price rise doesnt bother you, you got 5k a year to spend on playing golf, buying minis and living lucky you, folks who have well paid jobs and can spend 5k on something its fine a few £/$ more is nothing but change, but if you have a standard job and have a wife and kids to look after dont have the luxary of spending 5k a year on anything and that few £/$ change to you is to the rest of us either yes we can buy it or its to much to spend on a plastic soldier.

The people in the world who are better off than regular working class people have no right to complain about money when they have no idea what its like to have enough to live on and buy a model/box once a month if there lucky.

I sort of ranted over at BoLS when someone tried to make the whole 'GW is like a Ferrari' argument. It's a little heated, but not directed towards anyone who's posted so far in this forum.

The problem with the 'GW is a top-of-the-line luxury item argument' is from where GW makes most of it's money.

Is it from the Veteran players? No.

Is it from the newbies, who are fully dedicated to building, painting and playing a new army? No.

Where, then, does their money come from? Oh look! It's little snot-nose Johnny, who's managed to convince his mum and pa to buy him $200 worth of miniatures for Christmas. A few months later, everything goes on Ebay as his parents just shake their head.

Now, what happens when GW raises prices 2-3 more times (which, of course, they will)? Now, Johnny's parents would much rather buy him a 'PlayWii-360'.

So GW looks to the newbies - but there are none, since buying into the game costs too much money, and their are other companies.

So GW looks to the veterans - but there are none, since they've become disillusioned with the company they once loved, and have found other companies that actually respect their consumers.

Comparing GW to a Ferrari is complete and utter bull. Miniature wargaming shouldn't be about being 'elitist' and getting to look down your nose at people who either can't afford to play or who think the models are overpriced. If you do, then this really isn't the hobby for you. Get out, or shut up.

What miniature wargaming should be about is the community - that group of friends you made at your FLGS, who meet up every other weekend for a few games and some food and drink. It's about introducing new players, and feeling proud when they finally manage to table you after so many games.

You try to use example like WoW or video games. Guess what those games have that make them worthwhile? Communities. In WoW, you fall in with a Guild that makes the $15 a month worth it. In video games, at least nowadays, you get a whole social community where you can play together, chat, or watch movies.

So what will I get with GW? A nice miniature, and a bunch of stuck-up bags?

No thank you.

Now the original poster spends over $5000 a year on golf? Then yeah, you don't have any reason to complain. What about the people who's only hobby is GW miniatures?

**gloomygrim**

infinite_array wrote:
gloomygrim wrote:
Tigerone wrote: I spend close to 5k a year just playing golf that does not include the clubs….

This is why the price rise doesnt bother you, you got 5k a year to spend on playing golf, buying minis and living lucky you, folks who have well paid jobs and can spend 5k on something its fine a few £/$ more is nothing but change, but if you have a standard job and have a wife and kids to look after dont have the luxary of spending 5k a year on anything and that few £/$ change to you is to the rest of us either yes we can buy it or its to much to spend on a plastic soldier.

The people in the world who are better off than regular working class people have no right to complain about money when they have no idea what its like to have enough to live on and buy a model/box once a month if there lucky.

I sort of ranted over at BoLS when someone tried to make the whole 'GW is like a Ferrari' argument. It's a little heated, but not directed towards anyone who's posted so far in this forum.

The problem with the 'GW is a top-of-the-line luxury item argument' is from where GW makes most of it's money.

Is it from the Veteran players? No.

Is it from the newbies, who are fully dedicated to building, painting and playing a new army? No.

Where, then, does their money come from? Oh look! It's little snot-nose Johnny, who's managed to convince his mum and pa to buy him $200 worth of miniatures for Christmas. A few months later, everything goes on Ebay as his parents just shake their head.

Now, what happens when GW raises prices 2-3 more times (which, of course, they will)? Now, Johnny's parents would much rather buy him a 'PlayWii-360'.

So GW looks to the newbies - but there are none, since buying into the game costs too much money, and their are other companies.

So GW looks to the veterans - but there are none, since they've become disillusioned with the company they once loved, and have found other companies that actually respect their consumers.

Comparing GW to a Ferrari is complete and utter bull. Miniature wargaming shouldn't be about being 'elitist' and getting to look down your nose at people who either can't afford to play or who think the models are overpriced. If you do, then this really isn't the hobby for you. Get out, or shut up.

What miniature wargaming should be about is the community - that group of friends you made at your FLGS, who meet up every other weekend for a few games and some food and drink. It's about introducing new players, and feeling proud when they finally manage to table you after so many games.

You try to use example like WoW or video games. Guess what those games have that make them worthwhile? Communities. In WoW, you fall in with a Guild that makes the $15 a month worth it. In video games, at least nowadays, you get a whole social community where you can play together, chat, or watch movies.

So what will I get with GW? A nice miniature, and a bunch of stuck-up bags?

No thank you.

Now the original poster spends over $5000 a year on golf? Then yeah, you don't have any reason to complain. What about the people who's only hobby is GW miniatures?

You said it a lot better than i did dude, well put. I agree with the video games. very well said sir lol

**Vimes**

My problem wasn´t the price rise, but mainly the southern hemisphere embargo.

The price rise (including the Finecast increase) was merely the cherry on top that finished the deal.

**sarpedons-right-hand**

The biggest problem, for me, is not so much the price rises. It's the way that GW is treating it's customers that really get my back up.

Openly telling everyone who will listen that fine cast mini's cost less to make, then whacking up the price?! That's just suicidal.... I have been playing GW games for 20 years, I will not be buying another miniature from them until something changes.

It's like Nero fiddling while Rome burns if you ask me.

Take Sony as an example of how to treat your customers right:
A few weeks ago the entire PSN was hacked. Whilst Sony were trying to fix the problem they had to shut down the network for a few days. No Resistence 2, no FIFA 11.....no big deal really.
Then I get an email from Sony saying that to make up for the 72 hrs that the PSN was down, they are giving me a free game and a months free subscription to the premium service.

Not something I had expected to be honest! I'd always thought that Sony were another faceless multinational. Maybe they are, but that is the way to treat your customers. Not by slapping on more unjustified price hikes to keep the CEO in gravy.....
And all this from a company that makes a loss on every PS3 sold.....none too shabby eh?

So come on GW, just buck up a bit and stop treating us poor joes like s**t!

**G00fySmiley**

$5k a year on golf 0_o my truck cost less than that ... by a signifigant amount ($1.5k ... 98 nissan frontier)

so me price gains are signifigant... btu i'm not gonna stop playing, it is a fun game. it just forces me to build my army slower and look more at 2nd hand minis and ebay but it can still be cheap.

earlier today i bought 80 ork boys w/ bases, 6 ork bike frames and bases and a few various other ork bits for a little under 100 bucks .

the boys alone from GW would be 249.50 so when you factor in the other pieces i got i payed less than 40% msrp... so i'd agree that the prices only made me look for another soarce for minis but still kinda annoying that they jacked up the price like that meaning some stuff i can't find will now cos tme more

**Smacks**

Tigerone wrote:But look at it like this…. A box of space marines in the US $37.25….What do you get for that? Weeks if not months of putting them together and painting them.

It is not the price that upsets people, it is the fact that Games Workshop doesn't pass any of its savings onto its customers. Instead they falsely inflate prices way beyond what they need to be. This is not just speculation, they even brag about the huge profits they make per unit to butter up investors on their shareholders website. This is a huge 'f**k you' to all the customers and the people who supported them.

It also isn't good for the future of the company because it isn't a sustainable business model. While their profits have remained steady, sales have be dropping for years. If you follow this to its logical conclusion you end up with 1 box of marines costing a million dollars, and Games Workshop hoping that 1 person somewhere is stupid enough to pay it so they can claim ~million dollars profit for that year. That's may sound extreme but it is what is really happening; GW are expecting fewer and fewer people to pay more to prop up their business, and they are already depending on the loyalty and gullibility of their customers to keep playing obviously inflated prices. This gives the impression that the executives have no interest in the long term future of the company, they are just going to milk the for whatever they can get, then cut and run. The biggest losers ironically will end up being the investors and share holders when their magical money balloon bursts. But it is also sad for people who have enjoyed 40k and WFB their whole life to see this happen.

**agnosto**

apple fanboi = GW fanboi = sheeple?

**infinite_array**

agnosto wrote:apple fanboi = GW fanboi = sheeple?

Woah, now.

More like apple fanboi=GW fanboi= ANY KIND OF fanboi = sheeple.

Fanboi's are a problem in every community. People wouldn't be so anxious about playing different games if they didn't see the fanbois duking it out over the forums.

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

The inflation rate is 5% in the UK at the time of writing
GW increases are up to 5x that if what I have seen is correct.

What you need to remember is that people are not just annoyed with the price rise, but the fact that it is part of a series of whacky announcements from the crazy cats at GW HQ

Also, the "I don't understand why people complain" is rather an odd thing to say imho.

Personally I find it much stranger when some folks say, "it's only a price increase, I don't mind. I will gladly pay whatever for my hobby fix."

It seems to indicate a pathology to actually welcome having to pay more. Maybe that is ott, but it certainly seems like folly, with, in some instances, an element of superiority complex. (I can afford to pay whatever so I am no peasant)

Saying, "kin ell! The price has gone up AGAIN *rant*" is universal and widely accepted as being a normal human reaction, exempting only the toffs who are forbidden by etiquette to display emotions and express concern over things costing too much. Far too vulgar dontchya know.

**Scott-S6**

Tigerone wrote:Average person buys one new army a year at $800 to $1000 dollars. Out of that you get hundreds of hours modeling painting before you even think about the time actually playing the game. Plus the enjoyment of the constant bitching you get to do from everything about cheesy armies ect….
Name one other hobby that you can do this with?

Also, as long as you have one army, you can play for nothing or very close to it if you're short of cash.

Not only is the spend on equipment pretty low but the cost of participating is basically zero.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Personally I find it much stranger when some folks say, "it's only a price increase, I don't mind. I will gladly pay whatever for my hobby fix."

When the price of cookies goes up I buy them just the same. I don't feel the need to complain about it on the internet and then go and buy them anyway.

**Eilif**

Scott-S6 wrote: as long as you have one army, you can play for nothing or very close to it if your short of cash.
Not only is the spend on equipment pretty low but the cost of participating is basically zero.

This is very true. If a person can be disciplined to slowly build one army and game with it exclusively, even putting together GW army is feasible over time, and as you mention, upkeep and playing are not expensive sides of the hobby.

The problem, of course, is that there are so many great models and games out there. If you're on a really tight budget it essentially comes down to 2 choices.

1) GW and nothing else.
or
2)No GW and play several different scales/genres.

It's not as easy a choice as it sounds because on the one hand, the GW choice brings with it a huge fanbase and player pool, but staying clear of GW (unless you play PP games) will result in more miniatures and more variety.

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

That is fine
but doesn't mean I want to have to pay more for it.
It is also relative to disposable income
A 1000 usd for an army becomes $1200 next year
becomes $1440 the year after if GW decide they can get away with 20%.

If this was an isolated price increase that is not going to wind people up as much as the fact that GW are reducing cost points, encoraging Apocolyptic scale armies as well as hiking prices annually.

Of course people are going to "bitch".

You are isolating the price increase which is only part of the picture.

As for being able to play for nothing if I am short of cash, that too is not strictly true due to the in-built obsolescence of army books and whole units becoming redundant.
Some of my armies are not up to speed because I cannot afford to keep up with the changes.
I am okay cos I don't play tournies or at GW stores. But I feel for those who are feeling the pinch.

Stop the bitchin about the bitchin and think how others might be feeling about a hobby they have invested heavily in

**Scott-S6**

Eilif wrote:This is very true. If a person can be disciplined to slowly build one army and game with it exclusively, even putting together GW army is feasible over time, and as you mention, upkeep and playing are not expensive sides of the hobby.

Assuming that you build one army a year your monthly spend could be as low as £25 / $40 per month (my last 2K army was approx £250).

I'm curious to know what hobby the people who are noisily quitting are planning to switch to because all of my other hobbies cost a lot more than that!

**infinite_array**

Scott-S6 wrote:
Eilif wrote:This is very true. If a person can be disciplined to slowly build one army and game with it exclusively, even putting together GW army is feasible over time, and as you mention, upkeep and playing are not expensive sides of the hobby.

Assuming that you build one army a year your monthly spend could be as low as £25 / $40 per month (my last 2K army was approx £250).

I'm curious to know what hobby the people who are noisily quitting are planning to switch to because all of my other hobbies cost a lot more than that!

You're confusing 'Games Workshop' for 'hobby'.

Games Workshop is NOT the only company out their that makes a quality game with quality miniatures. And these other companies don't treat their consumers like dirt.

**Vermillion**

Ugavine wrote:Well I agree with Tigerone.

Petrol prices have gone up a heck of a lot recently.
Gas & Electricity are expected to go up 50% in the next two years.
Interests rates are expected to rise shortly in the UK, there's a nice rise in Mortgage payments.
All the local sandwich shops have all put the prices up.
Train prices are going up again.

Oh yeah, and then there's Games Workshop. Pretty low on the agenda to me. I'll still buy what I can afford if it will bring me some enjoyment and take my mind off all the other price rises.

Same feeling here. That energy rise is the most worrying top me followed by travelling costs. At the moment I am unemployed, severely limited income so gas and electrixc bills rising as well as the

coucil tax yet another insane hike is a LOT more worrying to me than GW. Past year I've hit ebay for maybe a half dozen models, bought some from the dakka swap shop for one of my sons and got maybe 2 box sets for around £10 each from elsewhere towards my hobby. The rest goes on surviving and my kids.
Now if was working I'm not sure where the extra money would go but with how things are I think it's still on surviving

I'm curious to know what hobby the people who are noisily quitting are planning to switch to because all of my other hobbies cost a lot more than that!

play.com, book section. Maybe £10 a month on books, and I write a lot of fiction too for my own amusement. Costs a lot less

**taylor048**

Check this out from mantic games! They could teach GW a thing or 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTUAkqn_A7E&feature=related

**Tigerone**

The bottom line is this most- not -all of you have no discipline! You want it all right now and you don't have the income to buy every model the moment it catches your eye...hence so many unpainted or half assembled armies you see.

**Ouze**

Oh sweet Jesus, we almost got it there - a argument that somehow intertwined Apple fanboys and 40K. Now all we need to do is get people in this thread calling each other stupid liberals and maybe a religion or abortion argument, something about Matt Ward, and Nvidia vs ATI, and this thread will become a pinprick black hole to the warp, where reason and sense, like light, are sucked in, never to escape again.