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I have a foot slogging IG and realized today that I need some armor, so I bought the LRBT, not demolisher, kit. I am thinking about setting it up as the basic LRBT but am not sure. I play against a lot of GK, Daemons, SM/SW primarily. I have a basilisk but the vast bulk of my army is a bunch of little dudes with flashlights, a couple HWT with auto cannons and lascannons and Yarrick(seriously coolest char ever!).

Would the main battle tank work best or should I build another variant?

-cgmckenzie

The main battle tank is very versatile and can really give you a nice fire base to cover your footsloggers. Thats my vote.

I think it will be the one I build. I might try to do the swappable barrel thing with magnets but that might be a little beyond my skill level.

Thanks for the input, amigos!

-cgmckenzie

For what you fight: MBT, or you bought the wrong Kit. In the end I voted MBT because it is more versatile. The Executioner is more killy to most of your opponents.

The Eradicator is only good when you face 4+ or higher save armies, almost exclusively(MEQs will just walk around in the open against eradicators).

Exterminators are just not as good as Hydras(same base volume of Fire/model, but the Hydra out-ranges, and costs half the points).

I would say the following:

1. The exterminator is more points because the hydra doesnt have armor 14/13, or heavy bolter sponsons. I run 2 together and believe me; any marine unit you come up to will definitely feel the pain. They're fun to chew up termies.

2. Adding plasma sponsons to the plasma MBT will give you 5 plasma cannon shots, plus a hull lascannon (for fun). A tank that nasty is always a nice choice.

3. if you're adding tanks to a foot army, never overlook chimeras. chimeras will draw fire from both your tanks and troops. plus they help support your troops tremendously.

4. If you're adding tanks, be sure to take a few at a time. never, ever, EVER, take just one of something powerful in a guard army. it makes too big a target for your enemy. make sutre that whatever you choose, it blends in making targeting for the enemy more difficult.

Personally I think you need a few of whatever varient you decide as because its your only armour in yoru footslogging army atm every single enemy anti tank weapon will be shooting at it!

As for your skill level, don't worry about the magnets if you think they are beyond you, a nice little blob of blue tack on the inside does the same thing. That's what I do and it works fine!

Ok, so I am building it ATM and found that the two 'big gun' barrels both slide into a single base, so it is a mix between the MBT and vanquisher. I am just going to have the barrels unglued and loose so I can change it depending on enemy.

As for it blending in, I have a wicked camo scheme that involves distracting my opponent and putting terrain on top of my armor.

-cgmckenzie

Exterminators work well for light AT work, something foot lists might otherwise lack. That or a MBT

It depends entirely on two things:

1.) how you structured your foot list.

2.) what your opponents play.

Without that information, any advice here is going to be junk.

I voted for the exterminator, because it's good against what the rest of your list is probably going to struggle with. Without more information, I can't tell for sure.

The only thing I can say with absolute certainty is don't take the eradicator. By far the worst russ variant, and there's no way you can run a foot list and have a need for what that russ can offer.

I have 2 infantry platoons, 2-3 inf, 1 HWT per(1 HWS with 2 autocannons and lascan/1 with 3 las). The command squads each have a plasma gun, heavy flamer, and standard. A basilisk provides some pie and 2 armored sentinels do nothing at all. I have Yarrick leading because only a fool does otherwise.

My opponents:

BA-lots of tanky things, 1 death squad
Daemons- I have no idea what they are but there are a lot of little ones and a couple gigantic ones
SW- lots of inf, a chaplain IC, and some land speeders from the 90's
GK- its insanely popular in my club and i fight 3 or 4 different armies, each still trying out the lists. So basically everything they can field I face.

Thanks for the help, amigos!

-cgmckenzie

gpfunk wrote:The main battle tank is very versatile and can really give you a nice fire base to cover your footsloggers. Thats my vote.

Pretty hard to go wrong with a LRMBT. Point that thing at 3/4 of your opponents (BA SW GK) and they will feel the pain

The regular battletank is:

Good against other armor, Str. 8 ordnance and thick armor makes it wonderful against anything that isn't AV14.

Great against heavy infantry, Str. 8 AP3 ordnance blast means that you inflict instant death on Marines and ignore their armor save, as well as always hitting somewhere on the table.

Poor against Land Raiders and Leman Russes: hard pressed to damage AV14.

Mediocre against Monstrous Creatures: the extra heavy bolter sponsons could really add some wounds to a Monstrous Creature, on the other hand, low BS makes it suffer a bit in this category. The Main Gun only does one wound, remember.

Therefore, I voted Leman Russ standard, because the only thing it REALLY can't do in a pinch is hurt a Land Raider. That's what Vanquishers are for, or even better, something that isn't a Leman Russ.

cgmckenzie wrote:I have 2 infantry platoons, 2-3 inf, 1 HWT per(1 HWS with 2 autocannons and lascan/1 with 3 las). The command squads each have a plasma gun, heavy flamer, and standard. A basilisk provides some pie and 2 armored sentinels do nothing at all. I have Yarrick leading because only a fool does otherwise.
-cgmckenzie

ACKK! Start fielding that Heavy Flamer as a Standard flamer; man-ported HF are waaaay too expensive; you save yourself 30 points just by switching it down(That's enough for MM Sponsons on your Russ, or switching the hull gun to a Lascannon and adding something better somewhere else).

I would also advise against a Plasma gun in what appears to be an assault geared squad(Plasmaguns do not mesh well with Flamers, and waste some of the Standards potential), switch it out for a second Flamer, so with Standard and 2 Flamers you have an extra 30 points per Command squad(also a 4th member that can still have gear, perhaps a 3rd Flamer or a medic).

Why are your A.Sents not doing anything? What do you have them equipped with? Plasma cannons will work really well, as will Heavy Flamers/Multilasers. Lascannons, missile launchers, and Autocannons do not work quite as well on A.sents because they are too expensive to use the Sent as a Tar-pit bully, and generally too few shots to do much damage.

I have plasmas on the sentinels. I say they don't do anything because they usually are killed early or get locked in combat and nothing happens with them. I really don't like sentinels, think they are sorta useless myself.

-cgmckenzie

The two LR variants that I ever bother running are from the other kit. I like the Executioner and the Demolisher, when I run them.

Obviously, most of the LR variants suffer from shooting blast markers, which have a tendency to be unreliable (unless you're my last opponent, who was ridiculously accurate with his grenade launchers on Monday). Anyway, the Executioner makes up for this in my eyes by having multiple shots. If the opponent is spread out, you can still get a decent number of hits even if each template only hits two fellas.

The Demlolisher makes up for this by. . . demolishing everything. It can hurt anything you point it at, be it vehicle, infantry, or MC. Obviously some targets are better than others, but it will never sit idle.

I built the LRBT/vanquisher variant with HB and sponsons with swappable weapons. I figure it will be the best all around but regret glueing the HB in; I would rather it be a lascannon thinking about it. Is there anyway to break that bond of the plastic glue without damaging the rest of the model?

-cgmckenzie

There's no bond to break when it comes to plastic glue. It's Acetone, which actually melts the plastic together. If you glued it tight, those pieces are actually joined now. If you used a superglue, there might be ways, but now your best bet is a shart hobby knife.

Yeah, I poked around in the joint with a nice but, when I glued it, I got the back of the piece as well, so it is out of reach of a knife.

Maybe I will convert the HB into a lascannon...

-cgmckenzie

Ayup. Get that lascannon on there, I've never regretted it. You can move and fire both, it makes the tank more reliable vs. armour, and it will ignore the save of anyone the BC is shooting at. Its also at a discount compared to the infantry lascannon options, allows the tank to remain threatening to everything in the game if the cannon gets hit, and if it kills virtually anything it will 'make its points back' - if not change a game!

(While we're on lascannons, I'd look into upgrading those AC's - 2x LC HWS, LRBT, and bassy is a pretty good anti-tank, and unless you're over 1500 you don't really need dedicated anti-tranny).

I'd agree with the basic LRBT as your best option. I too run platoons and heavy weapons (though I bring 2-3 chims), and there are several reasons I have a bassy/lrbt in every list at 1000+:

1. The infantry can specialize to take on any threat. You can bring alot of infantry.

2. The Battle, Earthshaker, and Demolisher Cannons (my third cannon at 1500+) are general, kill anything pie - yum! The only place in the codex you find these, and they can kill anything in the game; yes, please!

3. The bassy/lrbt combo works well for deployment - they have the range to take advantage of a good position, and with terrain/board edges/bubblewrap it's not hard to protect them from deepstrike/outflank. Also, if you end up with little LoS-blocking terrain, you've always got the option of putting the russ in front of the bassy. When direct fire is required, either one (or both) can move to gain a target. Another option is one in each corner, for a crossfire coverning the whole board.

I think adding the russ will see your plasmasents being targetted less, and thus having more rounds to fire. I'd keep giving them a chance, seeing the opponents you face. 2 pie and 2 cups of tea should be a decent anti-meq setup.

I'd second the 'more chimeras' advice from above. They are useful for blocking line of sight to the flanks of the other vehicles and/or providing cover to them as well. Not to mention protecting your small command squads while extending the range of their standards/orders. They give the list mobility, and can work to draw AT fire (they do have game-winning potential with a scoring unit inside - even a HWS, which is a nice option in itself).

I forgot the russ could move and fire ordnance!

I have to chop the heavy bolter off to get the las cannon on, but cie la vie. Pics up when the paint dries!

-cgmckenzie

The only Russes I really care to include are the Executioner and the Punisher.

Executioner suffers from blast syndrome, but is has multiple shots which help mitigate this a bit. Plus, it's extremely hard to ignore for your opponent, and tough to take down.

Punishers, however, don't care if your opponent is smart and spreads out. It just shoots, shoots, and shoots some more. No, it doesn't insta-kill marines. No, it doesn't wtfpwn tanks. It just makes your opponent roll a lot of saves. Plus, it's too tough too kill at range without ignoring other stuff, and if unmolested will continue dumping buckets of shots into things.


That said, Russes don't work in every list. They just work particularily well in infantry-heavy forces, because of the hard time Meltagunners will have getting close to your Russes.

The demolisher might demolish anything it hits, but it has a 24" range- same with the punisher. And In my experience, the closer I am to a russ, the closer I am to killing it. The plain russ has a 72" range insta-MEQ-Death AP3 pie plate. If I could have a plain russ in my SM lists, I would have a god-darn Leman russ in every god-darn list! Unless your tau with a railgun, you gotta get up close to it. I reckon its one of the best TAC HS choice in the guard codex, the game too probably.

Two counter-points, Jihallah: some foot-guard lists want you to be closer, so they can chop you to little pieces while you kill "nameless extra 14th-to-last."

LRMBT is better assuming two things: your opponents haven't learned how to mitigate the damage from a large blast and your play against MEQs all the time. My marine opponents usually run TEQs, and my other opponents are DE, Eldar, and Ailaros. 8/3 large blasts actually lose to heavy flamers in terms of damage most of the time for me. I don't see enough actual 3+ marines to warrant dedicating weapons other than blobs to them.

ElCheezus wrote:LRMBT is better assuming two things: your opponents haven't learned how to mitigate the damage from a large blast and your play against MEQs all the time.

Actually, it's if they haven't learned to mitigate the effects of blast weapons, you play lots of MEq, and they don't bring any long range anti-AV14. Otherwise, artillery does the same job, but cheaper.

ElCheezus wrote:Two counter-points, Jihallah: some foot-guard lists want you to be closer, so they can chop you to little pieces while you kill "nameless extra 14th-to-last."

LRMBT is better assuming two things: your opponents haven't learned how to mitigate the damage from a large blast and your play against MEQs all the time. My marine opponents usually run TEQs, and my other opponents are DE, Eldar, and Ailaros. 8/3 large blasts actually lose to heavy flamers in terms of damage most of the time for me. I don't see enough actual 3+ marines to warrant dedicating weapons other than blobs to them.

And there are plenty of lists that want to be in your face. Not every unit in a guard foot list wants to be in your face. The frontline certainly wants to be closer, but AFAIK one of the pro's of a guard foot list is the hail of fire you take getting up to their grill. Your local meta is your local meta, and its a good point- I probably wouldn't take it if it didn't have too many optimal targets and could likely be slapped about by lances, but if I were to write up a list to take against each army in your local group without knowing anything about them, I would have a plain russ.

Ailaros wrote:Actually, it's if they haven't learned to mitigate the effects of blast weapons, you play lots of MEq, and they don't bring any long range anti-AV14. Otherwise, artillery does the same job, but cheaper.

Shame my artillery pieces die to long range fire, which the russ shrugs off. That for me is the kicker between choosing between artillery and a russ.
-edit- On the subject of mitigating blast weapons, It's not too hard of a concept, but still when applied it hurts like when you deploy out of a blown (not wrecked) rhino.

Well, I am really excited about using it for the first time tomorrow! You all keep saying all sorts of awesome things it can do, like kill SM with pie!

I really appreciate the help, I am going to go write up my list now and see what I can do!

-cgmckenzie

I'll say for that the 2 russ variants you'll find the most uses for, are the vanilla Leman Russ, and the Executioner out of the Demolisher Kit.

1 or 2 Vanilla Russes can put down some serious firepower with their Str 8 Ap3 Large Blast, and if you take the Side Sponson heavy bolters, your looking at an additional 9 HB shots a turn. Not bad anti-infantry tools at all.

The Executioner, in my experience, works best kitted out to the insane extreme. Pure Plasma bus with Plasma Side Sponsons, front Lascannon, and max it out with Pask. Why Pask? Easy.
Plasma Cannons are small blast, so the reduced scatter on better BS skill is a plus, and it will also help make hits on the front lascannon. It also makes the executioner a master anti-MC weapon, when you're putting out 6 str7+ shots a turn, which reroll to wound (providing they all hit).
Or, alternatively, you have a monster vehicle that's going to annoy/semi-threaten most vehicles with 5 str 8 blasts, and a str 10 lascannon (Pask gets +1 on penetration).

Sure, at 290pts, its one of the biggest targets you can take in a list, its 290pts with AV 14F, AV 13 side armor, thats putting out a hell of a lotta pain

Exactly. I don't like hinging my unit's effectiveness on the intelligence of my opponent. Hence, I only use blast weapons when their damage output compensates, i.e. Executioner and Manticore.