Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Fluff-wise, obviously Terminators are the Uber-Marines, where Marines are the Uber-Soldiers themselves.

But game-wise? They have one more shot at 12-24", a slightly better save along with an invulnerable save as befits their status as veterans, but their basic melee loadout is a powerfist! Sure, it's a power weapon, but against other elites who normally have power weapons as well, they're going last, and probably not getting all of their attacks, because a 5+ sv is bump-kiss as Guard have proven time and time again and they only have 1 wound.

My point is, if they go against other elites, their going to get rofl-stomped. Against regular troops they may stand a chance, they just have to suffer the withering hail of rapid fire for a turn as they either footslog across the board or deep strike right next to them and then are unable to assault... And finally, against transports, which their powerfists imply they would be effective against, they are overpriced.

So could someone help me out? What is the purpose of Terminators? What targets are they meant to take out? Or do they suffer from the Jack-of-all, master-of-none syndrome?

Tactical Terminators are meant to be a special reserve force which you deploy by deep striking to eliminate enemy strong point. This is also pretty much the fluffy approach.

Problem is that Deep striking is so risky, and Terminator firepower is underwhelming by 5e. standards. Also as armies troops choices have generally got cheaper, it is nowadays too easy to overwhelm Terminators with torrent of shots or attacks.

The solution is to use TH/SS terminators that are only 200 points for 5 in the vanilla marine codex and easily beat things up to double their point cost in combat (especially with Vulkan master crafting their hammers).

Normal or Tactical Terminators with Storm Bolter/Power Fist as their default loadout are a very misunderstood unit. Most people see Power Fists and instantly try and use them as an assault unit. They are in fact a shooting unit (strangely enough there are also ASSAULT Terminators which are assault units, and one of the best around at that), Storm Bolters put out plenty of anti infantry firepower and unlike power armoured Marines they can do it on the move. More importantly they can also move and fire with heavy weapons, which gives you a source of mobile missile fire. They aren't scoring (for nilla Marines anyway) but they are very difficult to kill off from shooting (particularly if you keep them in cover) and they still have Power Fists so demand some healthy respect in assault as well.

They do however fall into the jack of all trades master of none category a bit, the mix of Storm Bolters + heavy weapon means you quite often waste firepower and unlike Tacticals (which you need for your scoring units anyway) those extra bolter shots you aren't using cost quite a few points. They certainly have a role, but they don't find themselves in many competitive lists because Marines generally want specialists from their Elites.

Yeah, they're not great. They perform a similar role to tactical marines except they are more mobile. I suspect the idea is you keep them about 18"/24" away from the front lines and use them to shoot a hail of bullets at enemy troops and take pot shots with the AC or the CML at lightly armour vehicles.

In my opinion they're just so much less frightening than Assault Termies that you'd never take them.

Assault termies march up and say "Hey, I'm here, I'm bloody hard to kill and I will crush your troops into mush"

Tactical termies march up and say "Hey, I'm here, I'm bloody hard to kill but I only do as much damage as a tactical squad and cost more points, so don't even bother trying"

Surely Tactical Terminators are really just there to drawn fire from other units.

Powerguy wrote:Normal or Tactical Terminators with Storm Bolter/Power Fist as their default loadout are a very misunderstood unit. Most people see Power Fists and instantly try and use them as an assault unit. They are in fact a shooting unit (strangely enough there are also ASSAULT Terminators which are assault units, and one of the best around at that), Storm Bolters put out plenty of anti infantry firepower and unlike power armoured Marines they can do it on the move. More importantly they can also move and fire with heavy weapons, which gives you a source of mobile missile fire. They aren't scoring (for nilla Marines anyway) but they are very difficult to kill off from shooting (particularly if you keep them in cover) and they still have Power Fists so demand some healthy respect in assault as well.

They do however fall into the jack of all trades master of none category a bit, the mix of Storm Bolters + heavy weapon means you quite often waste firepower and unlike Tacticals (which you need for your scoring units anyway) those extra bolter shots you aren't using cost quite a few points. They certainly have a role, but they don't find themselves in many competitive lists because Marines generally want specialists from their Elites.

This is a pretty good assessment IMHO. Tactical Termies can also act as a (mobile) anchor in a gun-line; tough, shooty and capable in counter-assault. They can also work well alongside a librarian; GoI providing them mobility, as well as adding more not-initiative 1 attacks to soften up the enemy before the powerfists strike.

As others have said, they're not a great unit and suffer from being jack-of-all-trades and outclassed by other units for less, but they're still capable in all areas and ultimately you can't really afford to ignore them, but they're not too easy to put down either.

I find terminators are more of a damage sponge in game terms. Troops tend to shoot at them as its scary seeing an teminator assault squad marching across the table. When the enemy shoots at your termies they are not shooting at your squads that can capture objectives. Im game terms a think the 2+ save makes them good at soaking up the damage. Fluff wise they are the elite of the elite and generally can fulful most battlefield roles. Clearing objectives for troops to capture and deep striking into the middle of the enemy to cause confusion.

Depends a lot on the army as well ... Black Templars terminators do quite well. Tank hunter + a pair of Cyclone missile launchers = 4 Strength 9 shots on relentless models. (265pts)
Best of all they can be taken as part of your HQ slots

Tri wrote:Depends a lot on the army as well ... Black Templars terminators do quite well. Tank hunter + a pair of Cyclone missile launchers = 4 Strength 9 shots on relentless models. (265pts)
Best of all they can be taken as part of your HQ slots

Indeed. Black Templars Terminators (of both flavours, incredibly enough) are really, REALLY great ATM.

I use my Chaos Termis to deep strike behind my enemies land raider and melta gun it.

Plus they can survive the hurricane bolters alot easier then my deep striking Raptors.

I've seen a guy use a full squad of ten with two cyclone missile launchers. He then combat squads the unit, putting both cyclones in one half and putting the other half into a stormraven with a librarian. Obviously this is blood angel specific, but a Land Raider could easily stand in for the Storm Raven and you could take another character with them.

The squad in the raven is the heavy hitters for units that his assault squads are ill-equipped to handle while the dual cyclone combat squad provides fire support and protects his firebase (and home objectives if it is an objective mission).

On the topic of Chaos Terminators, I can't decide if they're better or worse. They are 10pts cheaper and come with pwr weapons standard, but have a TL Bolter instead of a storm bolter... Any opinions?

Well, AFAIK they do have terminator armor
You should use them as elite assault troops.
They will survive with 2+ sv and 5+ inv save.
Use some ligth=ning claws and stuff like that to make them stronger.

Tactical Terminators are best run 10 strong and given 2 Clyclone missile racks.


that way they have 20 bolter shots up to 24" and 4 krak/frag missiles.


they aren't CC units by any standards. they are a durable shooty firebase.

2+ armor is usually sufficient against most high volume shooting(any AP2 pie plates need to be kept at a distance) so the poor invuln save isn't a huge deal.


the PFs are for fluff reasons and to allow them to tackle any vehicles that come too close.


Assault cannons and HFs are bad upgrades. you want those missiles.

Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields.

Grey Templar wrote:Tactical Terminators are best run 10 strong and given 2 Clyclone missile racks.


that way they have 20 bolter shots up to 24" and 4 krak/frag missiles.


they aren't CC units by any standards. they are a durable shooty firebase.

2+ armor is usually sufficient against most high volume shooting(any AP2 pie plates need to be kept at a distance) so the poor invuln save isn't a huge deal.


the PFs are for fluff reasons and to allow them to tackle any vehicles that come too close.


Assault cannons and HFs are bad upgrades. you want those missiles.

Unless, of course, you're playing BT in which case 2 deep-striking tank hunter assault cannons suddenly seems pretty damn good. Especially considered that you can get them on 5-man squads.

The only way I justify their point cost is with TH/SS - a 5++ is bad IMO, given their points. In 5E codices like the Blood Angels/Space Wolves, there are so many better Elite choices that are more cost effective.

DMajiko wrote:, but have a TL Bolter instead of a storm bolter... Any opinions?

TL bolter vs Storm bolter: 50% more accurate for 1 less shot from >12" to 24"; just plain 50% more accurate at 12" and less. I would almost rather have the T-L bolter

Also 10 points less per model for more accurate shooting, and faster(but weaker) attacks; and come with significantly more options.

The Best part is you can equal tac-termie price for an additional attack(or an equal number of attacks to LC-A-termies, but still having a gun).

Adding 10-points per model, and a Base Termie model in cost will net you 4 base attacks; 20 points/model+30 to 1 model will net you 5 attacks/ model, 6 on the charge, all at I4 with PW that re-roll to wound.

under 12" the Tl-bolter is better. 2 Tl shots instead of just 2 shots.

over 12", the stormbolter is slightly better. not by much though.

DMajiko wrote:On the topic of Chaos Terminators, I can't decide if they're better or worse. They are 10pts cheaper and come with pwr weapons standard, but have a TL Bolter instead of a storm bolter... Any opinions?

They're far more versatile, that's for sure. I'd say they're better than Tactical Terminators but not as good as TH/SS Terminators in general game terms.

Lacking fearless, they're pretty vulnerable, but a cheap squad of I5 Power-weapon Terminators with Combi-weapons is pretty cute I guess. And Termicide is always effective. Even if they don't get the job done, 3 Terminators chillin' in your backfield (perhaps with a Chainfist) can't be ignored.

DMajiko wrote:On the topic of Chaos Terminators, I can't decide if they're better or worse. They are 10pts cheaper and come with pwr weapons standard, but have a TL Bolter instead of a storm bolter... Any opinions?

As a Space Puppy Player I can tell you some things.
Chaos Terminators [And Basic Space Wolf Terminators and Most GK Terminators] are one of the best Anti-Terminator Units in the
TL Bolter: You have the option of taking Combi-Plasmas. You still are afectivly Using a Storm Bolter at 12" and once per game you can put out 2 S7 AP2 shots that will realy hurt other Terminators.
The Power give you and advanatge against any Tactical Terminator in the Squad, but the Sarge. You will Go fist and hand him alot of 5+ Saves he has to make. Then the Survivors can feed you wat is left of the Power Fist.

With the exception of a couple loadouts that aren't popular for a reason, the point of terminators can be pretty easily seen when you look at the two main differences between terminators and tac marines.

1.) 2+/3++

2.) deepstriking

So, you have a unit that is very difficult to kill, and can just show up out of nowhere mid-game. I can't think of anything more designed to contest an enemy objective.

Ailaros wrote:With the exception of a couple loadouts that aren't popular for a reason, the point of terminators can be pretty easily seen when you look at the two main differences between terminators and tac marines.

1.) 2+/3++

2.) deepstriking

So, you have a unit that is very difficult to kill, and can just show up out of nowhere mid-game. I can't think of anything more designed to contest an enemy objective.

.. Marbo?

Marbo has very little staying power. Unlike a group of THSS terminators.

I know I know, I was just messing about the whole popping up out of nowhere with a hearty murderous grin and a fist full of demo charge is too good to miss.

DMajiko wrote:Fluff-wise, obviously Terminators are the Uber-Marines, where Marines are the Uber-Soldiers themselves.

But game-wise? They have one more shot at 12-24", a slightly better save along with an invulnerable save as befits their status as veterans, but their basic melee loadout is a powerfist! Sure, it's a power weapon, but against other elites who normally have power weapons as well, they're going last, and probably not getting all of their attacks, because a 5+ sv is bump-kiss as Guard have proven time and time again and they only have 1 wound.

My point is, if they go against other elites, their going to get rofl-stomped. Against regular troops they may stand a chance, they just have to suffer the withering hail of rapid fire for a turn as they either footslog across the board or deep strike right next to them and then are unable to assault... And finally, against transports, which their powerfists imply they would be effective against, they are overpriced.

So could someone help me out? What is the purpose of Terminators? What targets are they meant to take out? Or do they suffer from the Jack-of-all, master-of-none syndrome?

They do suffer jack-off-all-day syndrome unfortunately. I find Terminators main strength is a hard point- you need the right tools or they can be a to take down. Putting them somewhere that the enemy must go towards to win the game... Say theres 4 objectives. You generally know when you deploy which ones are going to be really battled over, yeah? When you deploy first you go "ok I'm going to try and hold X and seize and fight over Y", and deploying second tends to "ok they're probably going to hold X and assault Y, I'm going to hold Z and assault Y". The terminators aren't for spearheading the assauult on Y, where you're going to have the biggest headbutting competition. They are better off on the objective you want to hold, and then moving on. Discourage the enemy from trying to seize your back objective, whilst moving 1) to apply their firepower effectively and 2) to somewhere the enemy doesn't want them. If you're fighting over the middle, walk around the fight (unless you need a quick dose of powerfist in a melee nearby) and towards one of their home objectives. They can move and fire and put out decent anti infantry (I'm not saying they lay the hurt down, but they'll whittle a few models each turn at the least) fire, and the cyclone missile launcher is pretty damn cool. If you go overboard on a full squad, you can combat squad them together for a mobile dev squad amusing, but not the most practical. But overall... kinda mediocre/hard to use to really "Wow!" kind of effective. But they aren't useless.

DMajiko wrote:On the topic of Chaos Terminators, I can't decide if they're better or worse. They are 10pts cheaper and come with pwr weapons standard, but have a TL Bolter instead of a storm bolter... Any opinions?

Well for 10pts you get a fist, so you get same terminator with a combibolter. BUT, that term can take combiweapons. Your squad doesn't have to be 1 pwr weap 4 fists- it can be 4 pwr weapons and 1 fist if you want it. So you don't have to pay for all the fists you don't really want- that is a plus, cheaper squad. But those points usually get put into combiweapons. The other upshot is the marks you can get. 4++ is pretty nice, and whilst MoN won't help vs plasma, it certainly does vs small arms. The Heavy weapon choices aren't as good, but the HW choices for regular terms aren't that crash hot either! Overall, I rate CSM terms slightly above normal terms- combiweapons, choose if you want a fist or not, and the possible mark/Deepstrike guiding icon tips it for me. But this is shooty terms- assault terms over CSM terms hands down

Ailaros wrote:With the exception of a couple loadouts that aren't popular for a reason, the point of terminators can be pretty easily seen when you look at the two main differences between terminators and tac marines.

1.) 2+/3++

2.) deepstriking

So, you have a unit that is very difficult to kill, and can just show up out of nowhere mid-game. I can't think of anything more designed to contest an enemy objective.

But then we have the problem of deepstriking down accurately and tarpits, but against the right armies that could be quite shenanigous. I'm going to give it a whirl this weekend