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Hallo everyone,

I always enjoyed the converting part of Warhammer 40k the most and I am a big fan of themed count-as armies. My question is now, how does the WarmaHordes Community feel about that? Do you know any examples/links?

I am asking, because the skirmish size armies, would be a lot easier to build, because you have fewer models and the gaming system seems to work even with unorthodox army-builds and more fun, for no-mech armies.
I have this idea for converting the beastmen models from warhammer fantasy for 40k (seemlier like the many count as space skaven armies over the internet). So after researching how WarmaHordes works, i came to the conclusion, that it shouldn't be to difficult or a problem, because as long as the base/size of the models and the cards are correct the appearance of the model should be irrelevant (no WYSIWYG=thanks to the gaming cards and easy damage system). And switching the theme from space to steam-punk would work for me too.
As there is no real wargear like in Warhammer, as I understand it (correct me if I am wrong here), the count-as concept would be the easiest way to use the converted models.

So what do you think of count-as in Warmahordes? Has it been done? Have you seen it? Would you play against it?

You'd have to check with your community. You could probably
do it in friendly games, so that would depend on your friends. I
wouldn't expect being allowed to do it in a pickup game.

Any official events would not allow a counts as army.

I'm at work so I cant provide a link

one guy converted an entire Khador army to look like a cygnar army to represent a change in one of the warcasters ideals

looked like cygnar, played like Khador

and its tournament legal

conversions are fine as long as your opponent is clear on whats what. Tournies will enforce stricter rules and WYSIWYG does apply but that doesnt stop people from converting

This is a good example of a necronized cryx:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-1963-6366_Necronized%20Cryx%20Warband%20-%20Servants%20Of%20The%20Dragon.html

The two I've seen that were best are the Extremoth (A Behemoth built off the extreme Juggy) and a Deathjack built off the extreme Juggy.

Well I'm almost done spicing up my Scythean.

As for how the community feels about, converting is mostly limited to reposing, since I unit has to accurately look like itself. Especialy the weapons they are holding have to be the same (as in, a dude using a halberd has to have some recognizable form of a halberd) to avoid any confusion.

This is mainly because some models look almost the same except for the gear they are using.

Heres what I've been up to:



Reposed and lengthened the upper body, and gave him proppa scythes to honour his name, I went for the flimsyish wrists on purpose to make it look creepier xD

wndl wrote:So after researching how WarmaHordes works, i came to the conclusion, that it shouldn't be to difficult or a problem, because as long as the base/size of the models and the cards are correct the appearance of the model should be irrelevant (no WYSIWYG=thanks to the gaming cards and easy damage system). And switching the theme from space to steam-punk would work for me too.
As there is no real wargear like in Warhammer, as I understand it (correct me if I am wrong here), the count-as concept would be the easiest way to use the converted models.

Unfortunately, it is quite opposite here. The appearance of the model IS really important as your opponent should be able to easily recognise what exactly and where is he facing. There should be no "uhm... is that model a Brigand or a Bone Grinder?" during a game. You may of course do whatever you want in a casual game as long as you agree with your opponent. But IMO that also means that you may simply forget about attending tournaments.
And on top of that there is the official PP Conversion Policy (LINKY) that quite clearly starts with:

All models used in Privateer Press organized play events must be Privateer Press miniatures from the WARMACHINE or HORDES ranges. The miniatures must be fully assembled on the appropriately sized base for which the model was designed. Any non–Privateer Press models, unassembled miniatures, or inappropriately based models are not permitted.

And then there's a lot about the conversion rules...
Of course the TO has always the final word but I don't expect too many of them allowing "count as" armies (I wouldn't).

Yeah, this game is very much WYSIWYG. And I don't know any players that would tolerate a "counts as" army excluding proxies for testing.

It would honestly depend how much it looked like what it's supposed to look like. If you use a rifle team, trim down the barrels, do some green stuffing and say they're infantry I'd buy that. I mean they're obviously not rifleman so there's only one alternative. If you took something really out there...like...pigs...or something I'm not sure how okay I would be with that...

mazgier has it right that everything should be clear upon first glance what models you are facing.

Hobby Manager’s Note
I have seen many great conversions over the years at tournaments, in our Formula P3 Painting Competition, and
in the pages of No Quarter Magazine. These conversion rules were written to set a baseline standard for using
converted models in organized play, and any models that follow these guidelines should not be turned away.
It is important to remember that an event organizer has the authority to allow conversions that fall outside of these
rules if he feels that they will not lead to confusion during game play. For example, using Drago as the basis for a
normal Berserker could be a particularly effective conversion if sufficient work is done to avoid the model being
confused for the character warjack. In situations like those, players should always check with their event
organizers to be sure that their conversion will be allowed. Whenever using a conversion that falls outside of the
normal rules, an unaltered version of the model should be kept on hand in the event that the conversion is
disallowed.

The above quote really captures the spirit of the conversion rules more than the strict guidelines they present. I think the they use the bare minimum as their official policy so it isn't abuseable.

This is my Ol'Rowdy converted from a plastic ironclad.

I think if I walked into a tournament trying to use that as a regular Ironclad I would be disqualified, and I don't know any TO that would reject the model as Ol' Rowdy even though it clearly breaks one of the rules in the conversion policy.


this is the official model:

and this is the plastic model from which mine was made:

@dais

impressive conversion! although I am a bit worried about the overlap from the base. It'll be hard to get stryker into that space base to base and it looks like its more than Rowdy's melee range

Yeah.. The big gear would seriously hamper the models playability.

This whole area of discussion was another area of Warmachine that had been troubling me. After looking at it, PP's conversion policies don't seem terribly stringent, so that's a relief. I have to say though, I'm somewhat worried about the kinda murky language in regard to models having to be composed mostly from original parts of the model. Is the model considered to be mostly made of the original based on the numerical number of parts, the recognizable bits (assuming that some are unrecognizable as original due to conversions), or some combination of these factors?

I know, I know, any self-respecting gamer wouldn't try to use this to gain an unfair advantage, but I'm paranoid when it comes to rules and regulations with unclear wording (*cough* Most of GW's rules *cough*)

It's pretty much left up to the TO. Rule of thumb: If it's got a decent amount of the original model in there, looks cool, and can be identified as the intended model at a glance, it's probably okay.

Thank you all for your replies.

Certainly the overall response is not what I hoped for, but explains why I didn't found many conversions by myself.

I just thought that because there are the gaming cards, it would always be clear what kind of models are on the table.

With the whole official conversion rules, it seems that creativity is only supported with painting and not modeling.

There's plenty of room for conversion creativity out there. Hell, there's entire armies of Cygnar composed entirely of gobbers, and an especially nice Khadoran army converted to look Cygnaran, storm chambers and all.

However, if you're looking to give Beast-09 a giant scythe and wings, you're probably barking up the wrong tree. Cards are there simply to act as quick rules reference and a place to mark damage. They're not there as a label to stick under a model so your opponent can tell what the hell it is.

Soladrin wrote:Yeah.. The big gear would seriously hamper the models playability.

yea, but not really that much more than having a big hammer hanging off his base, the gear doesn't stick out much farther. I decided the little bit of extra hangover was worth it for the narrative. It looked really bad with the hammer hanging off under the ground-line of the base anyway.
I'm so used to having to rotate jacks and beasts back to back to get in melee I stopped caring. Have you ever tried to get a thunderhead in base to base with blessing of vengeance?

I just found the "Link to your Dakka WM/Hordes painting threads or Galleries here."-Thread, and have to admit there are some nice examples of conversion work, as are here in this one.

George Spiggott's Bloodgorger conversion seems like a very good example of what I was aiming for. Seems like a Black Orc with Kroot head:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/65811-Bloodgorger%20WIP.html?m=2

I thought as long as the weapon, size and base were in line of the origina model, it would be ok because you got even a card, which says what model it represents, but the whole "most parts have to be original pp parts" seems to get in the way of my original intension.

Yet still the card does not waive the need for the model to be easily recognizable for your opponent. In case of Bloodgorgers it may work as there's no other similiar medium-sized infantry in their range. But just imagine a Cygnar "count-as" army. When you have 2-3 units of "count-as" small based models with rifles how can your opponent recognize between Long Gunners/Rangers/Trenchers? And I'm not even trying to go into the solos and/or mercenaries area...

wndl wrote:I thought as long as the weapon, size and base were in line of the origina model, it would be ok because you got even a card, which says what model it represents, but the whole "most parts have to be original pp parts" seems to get in the way of my original intension.

Well, that´s the official requirement. But as allready posted in this thread: The manager attending the event can allow models that do not have mostly PP parts.

And in friendly games most people should have no problem if the base size is correct, the weapon is recognizeable (no knife instead of a halberd and so on) and the model makes clear what it is.

This isn't a conversion question, but a question about the line in the rules concerning what models can be used. It says it has to be a model from the Warmachine or Hordes lines, but I have a gun mage from the Iron Kingdoms mini line that i use as my Gun Mage Captain Adept. It has all the correct gear (I.E. flintlock guns with runes), is on the right size base, and is made by the same company. Would this be generally allowed in a tournament or is this another "ask each organizer" situation?

Brotherjanus wrote:This isn't a conversion question, but a question about the line in the rules concerning what models can be used. It says it has to be a model from the Warmachine or Hordes lines, but I have a gun mage from the Iron Kingdoms mini line that i use as my Gun Mage Captain Adept. It has all the correct gear (I.E. flintlock guns with runes), is on the right size base, and is made by the same company. Would this be generally allowed in a tournament or is this another "ask each organizer" situation?

Is it this model(she's the only Gun Mage from the IK line, but the line includes 2 pistoleers as well)?



If so, no go, since she's a Merc Solo Character now.

Yep. This is my Nightmare, converted from a standard metal Slayer. I also have a Malice made from a metal Slayer.



And one of my part painted Bloodgorger conversions.

Platuan4th wrote:

Brotherjanus wrote:This isn't a conversion question, but a question about the line in the rules concerning what models can be used. It says it has to be a model from the Warmachine or Hordes lines, but I have a gun mage from the Iron Kingdoms mini line that i use as my Gun Mage Captain Adept. It has all the correct gear (I.E. flintlock guns with runes), is on the right size base, and is made by the same company. Would this be generally allowed in a tournament or is this another "ask each organizer" situation?

Is it this model(she's the only Gun Mage from the IK line, but the line includes 2 pistoleers as well)?



If so, no go, since she's a Merc Solo Character now.

Yep, she'd likely be a no go in most cases since she's a merc (Taryn Di La Rovissi). I'm just holding out for a resculpt of the B13 soon.

Platuan4th wrote:

Brotherjanus wrote:This isn't a conversion question, but a question about the line in the rules concerning what models can be used. It says it has to be a model from the Warmachine or Hordes lines, but I have a gun mage from the Iron Kingdoms mini line that i use as my Gun Mage Captain Adept. It has all the correct gear (I.E. flintlock guns with runes), is on the right size base, and is made by the same company. Would this be generally allowed in a tournament or is this another "ask each organizer" situation?

Is it this model(she's the only Gun Mage from the IK line, but the line includes 2 pistoleers as well)?



If so, no go, since she's a Merc Solo Character now.

No, the model I use has 4 flintlocks with 2 holstered and 2 at her sides while she looks over her shoulder. I have her painted up to match nicely with my other Cygnar models and like the official model less. I do want that model though, but my FLGS has been out of it for ages :(

Pistoleer:

That's her! doesn't have the big flashy coat or the tricorn hat, but i like it's western feel. fits in with my trenchers and commandos, sort of a tough attitude.

Yeah, that's one of the models I want to replace Ryan in the B13. Plus she's got enough guns to make you believe she could lay down a 4" AoE.

for those who want to swap figs or proxy, if youre playing a friendly game go hog wild

for those who want to join official tournaments, its the TO's decision. Just bring a legit fig with you if the TO decides to not let you play with it