Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

can anyone help me make a ork list + tacktics that can beat my freinds guard,
He is an AMAZING player, aswell as having a great army for 600pts

i dont know it by heart, but roughly is -

Chimaira - w/heavy bolter and heavy flamer
- Company command squad with 2 meltas and some other stuff :p

Chimaira - w/heavy bolter and heavy flamer
- Phyker battle squad

Chimaira - w/heavy bolter and multilaser
- 1x veteran squad with loads of meltas/plasma guns

Chimaira - w/heavy flamer and multilaser
- ditto from above


as you can see, very problamatic for an ork player like me, as he can gun down most of an army while his guys are safe

today i cam VERY close to beating him, playing objectives, we got a draw
i was using

warboss in mega armour with cybork body
3x meganobs w/3x combi-scorchas
w/ trukk

10x boyz with big shoota
w/trukk

15 stormboyz + boss zagstruck (doing v good, killed loads)

any advice on tactics? i rather like the current list6, but if there any massive flaws (btw school league rules, min 1HQ, 2 troops, optional 1 elites, 1 fast attack OR 1 heavy support, then as many troops/HQ as you can fit)

Wow, you could hardly be playing more into the guard player's hands with your list. His list thrives at taking down a few hard targets, and your list is... bosses and meganobz...

Balance out your ork list, and you'll probably do fine, regardless of the specifics. If you're looking for some specifics, though, buying a few boxes of slugga boyz and taking a KFF, or some nob bikers to get in there very quickly will probably be of help.

- No mega armour or meganobz. These are eating your points and quite frankly a megaboss should be ghazz... so no a regular PK boss with cybork will help you.
- No stormboyz. One squad is asking for a teeth-kicking
- MORE BOYZ. Add 2 more units of trukk boyz with what you've got if you want - that gives you numbers. Heck go horde on him and swamp his vehicles. Just not what you're using. It's not helping you.

Also, consider Lootas to pop his transports.

well my original army when i first started was LOADS of boyz with a KFF, but they tended to get gunned down quickely, :p

however really i just need to know if theres anything im doing wrong in tactics?

i do understand the most basic rule for orks, if you have boyz, get a nob with pk/bp!

Lots of boyz mounted in trukks is the message.
You need to close the gap as uickly as possible, stay in close-ish formation so all get the KFF bonus.

The thing to remember is that mechvets are usually SERIOUSLY weak against close combat armies. Their chimeras are only AV10 against your klaws, and the vets inside can be taken out by just a couple of boyz (seriously, guard vets are terrible in close combat).

As for getting shot up before you get there, you either need to reduce the time (hence trukks or bikes), or make it so that you take the same number of casualties, but the percentage lost is much lower (so, lots of boyz).

Ailaros has it, increase the Mob, or get some wheels

to be fair, ALL Guardsmen variants, be it Guardsmen, Veterans, or Stormtroopers are terrible at close combat.

But yeah, what Ailaros said.

Against his list....

KFF mech,
2x 20 boys w/pk & bp
2x 5 lootas

Top up with boys if that isn't 600 points.

odorofdeath wrote:to be fair, ALL Guardsmen variants, be it Guardsmen, Veterans, or Stormtroopers are terrible at close combat.

But yeah, what Ailaros said.

The power blob is fairly successful...

wow, hella ninja'd

odorofdeath wrote:to be fair, ALL Guardsmen variants, be it Guardsmen, Veterans, or Stormtroopers are terrible at close combat.

Unless they're power blobs or rough riders or ogryn or punchy PCSs, or straken or yarrik, then yes, they're pretty bad at close combat.

Guard can be plenty competent in close combat if they want to be. In this case, the guard player has chosen not to be, which is an exploitable weakness, especially given how choppy orks can be.

I disagree with the comment about Stormboyz. Yeah they're not the strongest thing in the Ork codex, but they can still do great in certain lists, especially with Zagstruk.

You're playing at a very small point value. You should be concentrating on outnumbering him. All his Meltaguns and Plasmaguns will be useless if they're just killing normal Orks.

I would use 2 groups of 5 Lootas, combined with a Big Mek w/KFF, and 3 groups of Choppa boyz. Give the Boyz some Rokkit Launchas. If you have the points, add in some grots.

Use the grots as a screen for your boys, or camp them on an objective.

Run your boys forward every turn and get them into CC as soon as possible. Don't bother shooting until the turn you assault, and even then only do it if you need to blow up a transport. Hopefully your Lootas will accomplish some of that for you. Use your WAAGGH!

He'll kill a lot of Orks, but by turn 3 you should be WAAGHing into his front lines, popping his tanks, and krumping the stuff inside. Use the Lootas to shoot down anything that tries to get away. Remember to deploy your Lootas in cover.

This whole list is kind of beardy, since you're building your list specifically to suit this one opponent, but sounds like you need a bit of a hand dealing with his tactics.

Let us know how the next game goes.

I meant individual Guardsmen, be they Stormtroopers, veterans, etc., are bad at combat.

when you have 20 Guardsmen in a blob with Power weapons, however, things are different, of course.

Well i wil lbe battleing him again next week so, ill see how it goes.

but i used the same zagstruck list today, vs another guard player, deep striked him in, popped a leman russ, chimaira and a squad of veterans, in an amazing multi-assault.

cheers for all the advice anyway guys.

I agree with having more boyz. In my 1000 pt Ork Army, I have one squad of Nobz, and roughly two squads of 30 boyz... lol, it may take time getting to the opponent, but when they reach them, there are more than enough orks left to destroy all.

Ailaros wrote:wow, hella ninja'd

odorofdeath wrote:to be fair, ALL Guardsmen variants, be it Guardsmen, Veterans, or Stormtroopers are terrible at close combat.

Unless they're power blobs or rough riders or ogryn or punchy PCSs, or straken or yarrik, then yes, they're pretty bad at close combat.

Guard can be plenty competent in close combat if they want to be. In this case, the guard player has chosen not to be, which is an exploitable weakness, especially given how choppy orks can be.

Rough Riders, really? I've never seen them do anything useful, their biggest success was probably putting 3 wounds on my nob bikers... I see them working against marine armies, but against orks they are a waste of points. Same goes for comand squads, five guys with an average WS3/T3/S3/I3 are never scary to orks. My boyz are scared to death of ogryns though.

Silva joe:
Your opponent basically tailored his list against you.
Meganobz have two weaknesses, high strength DS1/2 weapons and their LD. Look, a psychic battle squad and meltas all over the place!
Trukks can be best shot to pieces by many medium strength weapons - multilasers
Stormboyz are basically dead if they deepstrike and get hit by a template and/or blast marker, boyz are really vulnerable against flamers after destroying a vehicle - heavy flamers and psychic battle squad

If his dice don't hate him, he should not be able to lose.

One good advice was already give: Lose all the mega armor. It's slow, expensive and easily taken care of. No matter how many people echo "ork terminatorz!", they are not. At 1000 points, there is no room for such expensive toyz, and a warboss without mega armor is just as good. Also I can't really get to 1k point with the list you posted, unless you are overloading every unit with upgrades. If you are doing that, rather buy more units than upgrades.

Next problem: Two trukks are no trukks, expecially with that kind of firepower shooting at them. Either get more or leave them out all together. At low points I'd suggest the first, as boyz is are one of the best units we have. Also big mobs don't care about neither multilasers, nor meltas, nor plasma, and ignore the PBS ld-lowering power, as they are fearless. You should try to fit at least two more mobs of boyz into your list, to get either 3x 20 or 3x12 in trukks. Either way, every mob should have a nob with a powerklaw and boss pole.

If you want to field stormboyz, don't use Zagstruk. If you get them at a bad time or have a bad scatter you might lose 25% of your army, and up to their arrival you're fighting at a 25% handicap. Rather use a regular boss and have them start on the table, hiding behind your boyz or trukks for cover. When you get close, have them jump out and multi-charge those chimeras. You might even use the Zagstruk model as that regular boss, just tell your opponent before the game. Once you are playing larger games, you can go back to Zagstruk.

Another advice which was was given earlier, is using lootaz. They are made for killing chimeras, if you can get your hands on them, use them. With a little luck, as few as 5 of them might kill a chimera every turn.

As above.

-lootas to blow transports, without transports his army is basically already dead
-drop meganobs
-drop stormboys

-custom force field mek will half his range shooting.
-consider making your boyz into shooter boys, you dont really need the extra attack to kill guardsmen and if you are short in an assault you can shoot something down

-play more, make a few different lists with different strengths and weaknesses, and pick a random one before any game, this pretty much negates list tailoring.

I think my 600 point list could beat him ... I use BW bash

doing the list and points from memory no dcodex on list but i think it is rigth feel free to correct but its something like

big mek with kff 90

18 boys w/ nob and pk and bp 154
battlewagon w/ one big shoota and deff rolla 125

11 boys w/ nob pk and bp 112
trukk bare 35

5 lootas 75

i might have knocked out a few boys for points but at 600 its tough to pop the av14 and even if they have a way the kff helps alot once the wagon drops off the orks i go tank shocking with it, and lootas just sit back firing the whole time. usually depending on the army at th begining i'll either zoom the trukk aead or if they can easily pop it then i'll keep it behind the BW out of line of site as much as possible

okay, basing off that advice, what about----

10 boyz: trukk, Big mek w/KFF, PK, Eavy armour - 210

10 boyz: nob, pk, trukk - 130

10 boyz: nob, pk, trukk - 130

10 boyz: nob, pk, trukk - 130

zooom up field, 18" with 4+ cover, he shouldnt be able to kill all the orks, and theres 16 str 9 hits from PK's

Your mek doesn't nead 'eavy armour. Use the points for a bp of reinforced ram. Try to get rams on the trukks.

Contrary to what everyone else is saying, I would recommend keeping the stormboyz (a CC unit with an effectively 18" movement and can still assault a further 6"? (thats a 24" threat range), yes please!). However your list needs one thing:

Lots of boyz!

As a rough guide I would recommend that you have:

2 units of 20 boyz with PK nobs
10 stormboyz with a normal PK nob
Spend the rest on your HQ model

If you want to win, you are going to have to get up in your opponent's grill as quickly as possible, don't bother with shoota boyz, just use sluggas because you can't hurt his troops while they are in chimeras.

So to summarise:
Run up the board, keeping in cover, get those PKs to blow up some tanks, then feast on the juicy guardsman inside

silva joez boyz wrote:okay, basing off that advice, what about----

10 boyz: trukk, Big mek w/KFF, PK, Eavy armour - 210

10 boyz: nob, pk, trukk - 130

10 boyz: nob, pk, trukk - 130

10 boyz: nob, pk, trukk - 130

zooom up field, 18" with 4+ cover, he shouldnt be able to kill all the orks, and theres 16 str 9 hits from PK's

You really should try to fit some boss poles in there, otherwise you will often be faced with units running away.

silva joez boyz wrote:okay, basing off that advice, what about----

10 boyz: trukk, Big mek w/KFF, PK, Eavy armour - 210

10 boyz: nob, pk, trukk - 130

10 boyz: nob, pk, trukk - 130

10 boyz: nob, pk, trukk - 130

zooom up field, 18" with 4+ cover, he shouldnt be able to kill all the orks, and theres 16 str 9 hits from PK's

The way to stop a gunline army is to stop it from shooting. If you dropped one of the trukk squads you could afford 2 deffkopta with buzz saws. The ability to assault a tank 1st turn before they move or shoot is huge. While you're not guaranteed to wreck/exploded a chimera - you do have very good odds of causing it to not shoot. If you do that to 2 chimeras - that's 6 str 6 shots and 6 str 5 shots that are not shooting at your trukks - and as a bonus, the men inside won't be able to shoot either. If you don't have any koptas, you can pick up a couple from ebay for very little.

Oh yes, deffinatly a few buzzkoptas. I forgot all about them.