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Hey all, long time lurker, first time poster.

I've been part of WH40K for a couple years now but I've never strayed too far from the Imperium's Space Marines. Recently however a friend of mine has convinced me to try something new & with their introduction to 5th Ed' I decided to take a look at the Dark Eldar. So after much poking & throwing ideas against the wall to see if they fit, I came up with 1500 worth centered around Lelith; all C&C will be welcome as, as I mentioned, this is my first time venturing away from the good old Codex Astartes ;D.

HQ
Lelith Hesperax - 175
Elite
Hekatrix Bloodbrides (6), Hydra Gauntlets (1), Shardnet & Impaler (1), Haywire Grenades (2), Syren w/ Agoniser, Raider - 192 [Note: Lelith rides with the Bloodbrides]
Troops
Wyches (10), Hydra Gauntlets (1), Shardnet & Impaler (1), Haywire Grenades (2), Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Raider - 214
Wyches (10), Hydra Gauntlets (1), Shardnet & Impaler (1), Haywire Grenades (2), Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Raider - 214
Wyches (10), Hydra Gauntlets (1), Shardnet & Impaler (1), Haywire Grenades (2), Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Raider - 214
Fast Attack
Scourges (5), Dark Lance (1), Solarite w/ Agoniser - 155
Scourges (5), Dark Lance (1), Solarite w/ Agoniser - 155
Heavy Support
Cronos Parasite Engine, Spirit Probe - 90
Cronos Parasite Engine, Spirit Probe - 90
1499/1500

EDIT - Revision: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/372092.page#2867477

BloodBrides don't do that much more than wyches, for the cost. Demote them back to wyches for the extra scoring unit.

Scourges: The point of scourges is Jumper-mobility, so the two Dark Lances (Heavy weps) are wasted or you're wasting the Scourges' mobile asset. Also, they aren't a good h2h unit either, so the Agonizer is also wasted points. And at 5 birds each, they're easy KPs for your opponent. If you run them, go all anti-I. Or, if you want the DL, go with 5 warriors, but that isn't optimal.

*If* you keep the scourges as is, you still only have 6 Dark Lances. Not enough. My 1500 list has 20 Lance weapons. Ravagers or TruBlasters in Venoms is the good way to bring up your anti-T. If not, IG and anything Mech is going to be really tough.

Thanks for the swift reply, I'll go back to the 'dex with your comments.
Any direct advice on which direction to go with units would be greatly appreciated, a lot of the DE 'dex still confuses me ;D.

It'd be nice if I could stay inside boxed wargear too (total army), if at all possible :3.

Chaos_Duality wrote:Any direct advice on which direction to go with units would be greatly appreciated, a lot of the DE 'dex still confuses me ;D.

To Clarify: What to buy next? Ravagers. Or Venoms with 4 TrueBorn w/ Blasters for anti-Tank.

Chaos_Duality wrote:It'd be nice if I could stay inside boxed wargear too (total army), if at all possible :3.

Boxed Wargear? Whachu mean? Do you mean sticking with what was on the sprues?

Grouped sprues from all the boxes required for the 1500 I end up with, yeah. Not got as many funds as I used too ;D.

I'm the type who likes to get a working list I like the look of, then get it together in a short space of time, which is why I'm looking for C&C here as this is my first venture into a majorly different codex.

With the list I've got in the OP, that's just come from trying to centre around Lelith & my general love of CC, what I can't seem to balance is tank busting, that's my main issue as you figured out xD.

Chaos_Duality wrote:With the list I've got in the OP, that's just come from trying to centre around Lelith & my general love of CC, what I can't seem to balance is tank busting, that's my main issue as you figured out xD.

I love h2h too. But 3 Ravagers is the short and easy solution to anti-T, but expensive to buy. However, you have KWarriors, then you already have Trueborn, and the one or two blaster bits. So that's done.

I've been proxying SM Speeders for venoms, but will plunk down the cash when those come out. Between 2 to 3 TruBlaster Venoms (with 4 Blasters each) and the 3 Ravagers, my 3 raiders, I've been doing okay with anti-T at 1500 to 1850 games.

EDIT (again): I believe I fix'd my maths from pre-edit, my brain decided it wouldn't work for a few minutes there ;D.
Cut the Brides & Scourges, added the TrueBorn Blasters on Venoms, upgraded the Raiders with spare points.
Cut 1 Wych from a squad along with the Shardnet & Impaler, giving room for Lelith in said unit, she'll ride with them.

HQ
Lelith Hesperax - 175
Elite
Kabalite Trueborn (4), Blasters (4), Venom - 163
Kabalite Trueborn (4), Blasters (4), Venom - 163
Kabalite Trueborn (4), Blasters (4), Venom - 163
Troops
Wyches (9), Hydra Gauntlets (1), Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Raider w/ Chain-Snares, Flickerfield - 195
Wyches (10), Hydra Gauntlets (1), Shardnet & Impaler (1), Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Raider w/ Chain-Snares, Flickerfield - 215
Wyches (10), Hydra Gauntlets (1), Shardnet & Impaler (1), Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Raider w/ Chain-Snares, Flickerfield - 215
Heavy Support
Cronos Parasite Engine, Spirit Probe - 90
Cronos Parasite Engine, Spirit Probe - 90
1499/1500

[The unit summary costs seem off...or my brain is REALLY not working but a friend confirms the total from the list itself is 1499, I need coffee in my system I think.]

My cautionary note would be that at 1500 there are much superior options than Lelith for an HQ.

That said, if you're focusing on Lelith, let's play with it.

I think the Trueborn are a mistake as currently arranged. Trueborn are what we buy when we need more anti-tank and cannot take a Ravager. You have an open slot to take a Ravager, you will save almost 50 points and will overall have a better range threat for your anti-armor, plus a vehicle that can actually ignore small arms fire. I'd drop one Trueblaster squad for a Ravager.

I'm neutral about mixing Gauntlets and Shardnets. Id' decide whether you want to lock people down more, or kill them more (you want to kill) and would take 2 of the same weapon.

I don't think the chain snares are a particularly brilliant investment considering how much of the enemy you'll be wanting to assault, I'd probably suggest shock prows instead as I think they are overall more useful.

My thoughts,
Thor.

Thor665 wrote:My cautionary note would be that at 1500 there are much superior options than Lelith for an HQ.

That said, if you're focusing on Lelith, let's play with it.

I think the Trueborn are a mistake as currently arranged. Trueborn are what we buy when we need more anti-tank and cannot take a Ravager. You have an open slot to take a Ravager, you will save almost 50 points and will overall have a better range threat for your anti-armor, plus a vehicle that can actually ignore small arms fire. I'd drop one Trueblaster squad for a Ravager.

I'm neutral about mixing Gauntlets and Shardnets. Id' decide whether you want to lock people down more, or kill them more (you want to kill) and would take 2 of the same weapon.

I don't think the chain snares are a particularly brilliant investment considering how much of the enemy you'll be wanting to assault, I'd probably suggest shock prows instead as I think they are overall more useful.

My thoughts,
Thor.

Pretty much piggy backing off Thor.

IMO if your running Lelith run her in a squad of 6x Bloodbrides with 2 shardnets. That gives you 3 shardnets, so most things are only getting at MOST 1 attack on her and her squad. Also, get some ravagers.... seriously!

Thanks for the all the comments, I'm well rested & ready for another go ;D.
I've taken on board the overall directions & put Bloodbrides back in, swapped some Trueborn for a Ravager, changed some wargear around & whatnot.
I have given both Parasite Engines the Vortex as I'm under the impression that, as an MC, it can use both the Syphon & the Vortex? Correct me if I'm wrong, naturally.
& As always, paranoid about my maths though I think it's correct.

HQ
Lelith Hesperax - 175
Elite
Kabalite Trueborn (4), Blasters (4), Venom - 163
Kabalite Trueborn (4), Blasters (4), Venom - 163
Hekatrix Bloodbrides (6), Shardnet & Impaler (2), Syren w/ Agoniser, Haywire Grenades (5), Raider, Flickerfield - 208
Troops
Wyches (10), Hydra Gauntlets (2), Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Haywire Grenades (4), Raider, Flickerfield - 228
Wyches (10), Hydra Gauntlets (2), Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Haywire Grenades (4), Raider, Flickerfield - 228
Heavy Support
Cronos Parasite Engine, Spirit Probe, Spirit Vortex - 110
Cronos Parasite Engine, Spirit Probe, Spirit Vortex - 110
Ravager, Night Shields, Flickerfield - 115
1500/1500

You may be going back and forth about wyches and blood brides. But now I think you have too few troops.

You're correct about MCs, they get to fire up to two weapons per shooting phase.

What's up with that (4) annotation behind the Haywire grenades? you need to either give grenades to the whole squad, or none at all.

I agree you have too few troops.

A simple point saving trick, that won't shift your battle capabilities much is drop the Trueblasters to 3 man squads. They're still a short range Ravager at that point, and it frees up a lot of points to help flesh out the rest of the army.

Bent the list out of shape (or into a new shape) in order to gain more troops.
Made a concious (albeit questionable in my mind) decision to drop the Parasite Engines on recommendation from a friend.
Math is right but haven't added points as I'm in a rush. There was a total of 19 points spare I believe so I dropped 15 points on a bit of protection for the Ravager, personal choice...could have gone with 9 Haywire Grenades for the Bloodbrides.
Either way, what do you think?

HQ
Lelith Hesperax -
Elites
Kabalite Trueborn (4), Blasters (4), Venom -
Kabalite Trueborn (4), Blasters (4), Venom -
Hekatrix Bloodbrides (9), Shardnet & Impaler (3), Syren w/ Agoniser, Raider, Flickerfield -
Troops
Wyches (10), Hydra Gauntlets (2), Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Raider, Flickerfield -
Wyches (10), Hydra Gauntlets (2), Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Raider, Flickerfield -
Wyches (10), Hydra Gauntlets (2), Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Raider, Flickerfield -
Heavy Support
Ravager, Torment Grenade Launchers, Night Shields, Flickerfield -
1496/1500.

Chaos_Duality wrote:. There was a total of 19 points spare I believe so I dropped 15 points on a bit of protection for the Ravager, personal choice...could have gone with 9 Haywire Grenades for the Bloodbrides.Either way, what do you think?

I'm still of mind that BBs are over-dressed wyches. Why're you liking them so much?

Chaos_Duality wrote:Kabalite Trueborn (4), Blasters (4), Venom -

Add the second splinter cannon to the venoms. Great-anti-I, and anti-MC. I've totally pureed a Nurgle SM army with them in two match ups; the DP was pretty much a free Kill Point each time.

Chaos_Duality wrote:Ravager, Torment Grenade Launchers, Night Shields, Flickerfield -

I'd cut the TGL for the extra SplintCans on the Venoms.

I dunno why I like the Brides, I guess I'm just cruising for a powerful unit with Lelith ;D.

& Isn't Venom 'replace' Splinter Rifle with Splinter Cannon? I'm all for it just, wondering about your use of 'second'.

Recounted, would have to lose TGL & Night Shields to gain a Cannon on both Venoms (...though I'm gonna re-recount when I'm no longer busy, never trust my numbers xD).

Chaos_Duality wrote:& Isn't Venom 'replace' Splinter Rifle with Splinter Cannon? I'm all for it just, wondering about your use of 'second'.

If you'll check the venom entry carefully, you'll note that it comes with 2 guns, a TL splinter Rifle and a SplintCan. When you replace the TL-Rifle ... you have 2 Splinter Cannons, thus a 12 dice gun-boat!

*cough* Yes...I was just testing you...
No seriously, how did I miss that? xD Thanks for pointing it out!

I've checked it over once again, my maths is failing...somehow I've gone from 19 under to 23 over while changing nothing...derp ;D.
Anyway, had a friend check the following a million times & we're both getting the same result every time so, let's hope I've done better this time!

HQ
Lelith Hesperax - 175
Elite
Kabalite Trueborn (3), Blasters (3), Venom, Splinter Cannon - 146
Kabalite Trueborn (3), Blasters (3), Venom, Splinter Cannon - 146
Hekatrix Bloodbrides (9), Shardnet & Impaler (3), Syren w/ Agoniser, Raider, Flickerfield - 247
Troops
Wyches (10), Hydra Gauntlets (2), Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Raider, Flickerfield - 220
Wyches (10), Hydra Gauntlets (2), Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Raider, Flickerfield - 220
Wyches (10), Hydra Gauntlets (2), Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Raider, Flickerfield - 220
Heavy Support
Ravager, Night Shields, Flickerfield - 125
1499/1500

Left to my own devices I'd dump the Brides and go +2 Ravagers.

Agree with Thor. @ 1500 3 ravagers are niiiiiiiiiice But may hurt the wallet....