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This came up at a tournament yesterday (didnt really affect game). Tha ork player I played against said if he moved 7 inches with red paint I would have to roll sixes to hit. I always read that the extra inch dosnt count twards any thing but an extra inch (book says move 13 counts as moving 12). This also affects boarding planks because you cant hit anything that moved faster then 12 inches. If so I've been playing wrong for 2 years and letting people hit on fours when I go 7 inches. who's right

The book also says the vehicles with red paint does not incur any penalties, but would gain any benefit.

My guess is that he's right - he's still moving 7", and you would still need 6s to hit - the extra inch is just optional, but it doesn't count against you.

I have heard arguments both ways, and have played it both ways (I run Orks usually). It's a grey area. On one hand, you incur no penalties for your wargear - and you have traveled over 6" -- -- on the other it says that you travel an extra inch and count as moving at Cruising Speed (which means you can shoot out of the vehicle & are hit on 4's). I tend toward the second one: hitting on 4's. The rules do not stress inches, but whether or not you moved flat-out or at cruising speed (which you did, sort of) BUT whatever you and your opponent decide is correct (heresy)...

Maybe if the Orks 'think' that they are harder to hit, they are. That's the way Red Paint works, and seems to be how the rule is enforced!!

The trukk, or whatever, is moving at more than 6'' (so therefore is 6's to hit) for it's foes. The orks are still moving at combat speed (ignoring the negative penalties of that extra inch) and so can fire out.

Same logic applies for a trukk moving 1'' (due to RPJ) whilst not moving at all, for the purpose of vehicle guns firing etc.

Leastways that's how i read it. The example is moving 13'' and count as moving 12 in the book, but it can be extrapolated to moving 7'', but count as moving 6'' for the trukk and it's occupants.

Yup. Orks get the best of both worlds with this. They count as moving the faster speed except for the drawbacks. It's pretty darn sweet for the 6.1"-7" band.

Makes up for the general fragility of ork vehicles, somewhat.

It's also good for the battlewagon firing all guns while creeping forward

Ascalam wrote:Makes up for the general fragility of ork vehicles, somewhat.

It's also good for the battlewagon firing all guns while creeping forward

Battlewagon can only fire one weapon after moving upto 6/7" (depending on RPJ), it'd have to be stationary to fire all the weapons.

I have also been doing it wrong ,nice to know ill be doing this from now on

And it can move 1'' while counting as stationary with RPJ.

Hence the 'creeping' forward.

Ascalam wrote:And it can move 1'' while counting as stationary with RPJ.

Hence the 'creeping' forward.

I'm an ork player and i use RPJ, but I'd call shenanigans on this. The codex reads "Ork vehicles with red paint jobs add +1 to their move in the Movement phase but do not incur any penalties for this extra inch." To me, that reads like you add the extra inch after you move the 6 / 12 / 18...

No, if it moves 1", it's still moving. it has to remain completely stationary to fire all weapons.

elchristoff wrote:

Ascalam wrote:And it can move 1'' while counting as stationary with RPJ.

Hence the 'creeping' forward.

I'm an ork player and i use RPJ, but I'd call shenanigans on this. The codex reads "Ork vehicles with red paint jobs add +1 to their move in the Movement phase but do not incur any penalties for this extra inch." To me, that reads like you add the extra inch after you move the 6 / 12 / 18...

0+1=1. It works.

BoyMac wrote:

elchristoff wrote:

Ascalam wrote:And it can move 1'' while counting as stationary with RPJ.

Hence the 'creeping' forward.

I'm an ork player and i use RPJ, but I'd call shenanigans on this. The codex reads "Ork vehicles with red paint jobs add +1 to their move in the Movement phase but do not incur any penalties for this extra inch." To me, that reads like you add the extra inch after you move the 6 / 12 / 18...

0+1=1. It works.

Red paint job means it moves faster [according to the ork theory of red ones go faster], thus 1" is still moving...

It also allows you to ignore the negative effects of that inch of movement. Effectively it doesn't exist unless it helps you

If stormravens can fire while flat out without it being shenanigans, i can fire while moving 1 mph. Both are just as valid in the rules imho.

It can be argued either way. It rarely comes up anyway, as you don't really want your big troop transport sitting still.

If an opponent had an issue with it i would have no problem ruling his way. Most i've fought have no issue with it.

You can't move 0, inches. That isn't possible. You can't also be stationary, plus 1 inch. That is also self contradictory.

Occam's Razor here people.

Orks say "Nya!"

Since when has Occam had any relation to 40k rules

You are moving one inch, which doesn't count as moving one inch for the purpose of firing guns etc. Only the negative effects are cancelled. In effect the vehicle is treated as stationary for you, but not for your foes. It is still moving one inch, which somewhat negates your argument.

That said, i've already said that if an oppenent took issue with it i'm fine ruling it the other way for the battle. Most don't.

Ascalam wrote:You are moving one inch, which doesn't count as moving one inch for the purpose of firing guns etc.

I just don't see how you add an inch to your movement if you don't move. That would be like getting an extra shot from a gun, shooting it and still running since you didn't use your "regular" shots.

Ascalam wrote:You are moving one inch, which doesn't count as moving one inch for the purpose of firing guns etc.

You're right, but it still counts as moving.

Page 58 of the BRB:

Vehicles that remained stationary may fire all of their weapons (remember that pivoting on the spot does not count as moving).

That rule doesn't care about how much you move, only that you remain stationary. Moving 1" or 20" is not stationary. Is the vehicle in the same spot? No? Then it did not remain stationary.

IF the rule said "Vehicles that moved 0" in the movement phase...", which follows the same pattern as the other lines (as "combat speed" and "cruising speed" can be replaced by "up to 6"" and "up to 12"" respectively), then you would be correct.

But it doesn't care about moving 0". It cares about remaining stationary. If you move 1" less, but still move, then you moved.

The RPJ you says "ork vehicles with red paint job" add +1 Inch to their move in the Movement phase"(Codex: Orks, pg. 93). If you don't move, you don't add anything. RAW you can't even move exactly 1" or less, as the +1 is not optional.

*shrug*

Comes up once in a blue moon anyway.

Stationary and moving 0 are the same thing. If you count as having moved 0 inches then you count as stationary, but i can see the counter argument as equally valid.

That's the thing of it, isn't it? Stationary does not mean moving 0".

When stationary, movement distance = "N/A"

Movement distance of 0" implies that it was "moving", just didn't go anywhere.

They're different modes, basically. Usually, they have the same practical end result. This is an example when they don't. It's like the difference between having your car in "park" and having your car in "drive," but holding down the brake. Usually has the same result, but there are things going on under the hood that make a difference.

That is one perspective on it, and logically consistent.

Not moving and counting as having moved no distance are logically the same also. Stationary and moving 0 (ie not moving any distance) are identical. They are different states, if you want to argue it that way, that are logically the same, barring the breakdown of newtonian physics.

In the example you gave with the car there are indeed different things going on, but the vehicle is still moving 0, regardless of which mode it's in. If turning on the engine put the vehicle into phase space in which it was simultaneously moving and standing still (sci fi cars ftw) it would be more relevant.

As mentioned, i'm happy to concede the point if the opponent has an issue with it. I generally prefer to be belting towards my enemies anyway

It does make an interesting logic puzzle

Does an object that has moved, but which the universe does not consider to have moved, count has having moved?

No you guys are inccorect on moving 1 inch and counting as stationary. Stationary is stationary. RPJ simply adds an extra inch to your movement moving an inch and saying your stationary is cheating.

Exactly.

I don't think this is really ever going to come up, anyway. What ork players will slowly creep across the board in transport as safe as a wet cardboard box?

You go faster while moving. When you are stationary, you can't go faster. Would an immobilized transport be able to move 1 inch using this rule? It is an extra inch more than it is technically allowed to move, so it applies, right?

-cgmckenzie

cgmckenzie wrote:You go faster while moving. When you are stationary, you can't go faster. Would an immobilized transport be able to move 1 inch using this rule? It is an extra inch more than it is technically allowed to move, so it applies, right?

-cgmckenzie

I think you just won sir.... Congrats

Not to dampen the opinion here, but the rules for assaulting vehicles don't specify distance, but rather whether or not it moved "combat speed" or "cruising speed." My read of RPJ is that combat speed is up to 7 inches, cruising speed up to 13 inches. So, whether or not it moves 6 or 7 doesn't really matter; it moved COMBAT SPEED, so I hit it on a 4+.

Skarboy wrote: My read of RPJ is that combat speed is up to 7 inches

That's not the case. Combat speed is still 6", but the ork player does not get any penalties for moving 7" instead of 6", so whenever he would be penalized for moving cruising speed at 6-7", he counts as combat speed instead.