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I was watching the X files the other day, and I was surprised to see the Federal duo being thwarted at at every turn by the proverbial Sheriff, who kept talking about jurisdiction. This surprised me as I was under the mistaken impression that since the Hoover boys were goverment agents, they had free reign. Now I realise I know squat about law and order in America and seeing as I will be visiting in July, I was wondering if the good people of Dakka could fill in the blanks. There are so many different branches it beggars belief! So what do all these branches do, and who has this magical word jurisdiction?

From the top of my head, there are: Sherrifs, US Marshalls, FBI, State Troopers, highway patrol, National Guard, City Police, ATF, DEA, NSA, Homeland, texas rangers, city police, state police, justice department, district attorneys, ninjas etc etc.

All I know is never mess with the Tennessee River Valley Authority cops.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
From the top of my head, there are: Sherrifs, US Marshalls, FBI, State Troopers, highway patrol, National Guard, City Police, ATF, DEA, NSA, Homeland, texas rangers, city police, state police, justice department, district attorneys, ninjas etc etc.

Here's a general breakdown:

City= police
County =Sheriff
State= troopers/highway patrol.

FBI, DEA, ATF, NSA, DHS, etc. are all somewhat similar in vein, in that they rarely step into the realm of local matters. the justice department, AFAIK, is ran by the district attorney's office (at the more local levels). Texas Rangers are only in Texas, and I have no bloody clue what they actually do.

National Guard are *supposed* to be an emergency military force, capable of holding their home state until the "real" military can show up, but are often (slightly illegally) used in disaster relief efforts (which is a good thing, though still slightly illegal, they are supposed to be a military force, not emergency relief workers or policing agencies in times of crisis).


Here is sort of how things work: As an example, we'll use a car chase... A guy starts off speeding inside of a city, so the city police chase.. he leaves city limits, and so county sheriff will join in (they won't necessarily take over) the pursuit, then he hops onto an Interstate Highway (also known in Germany as an Autobahn, and if i got my info correct, in the UK are the M roads).. At this point, state will join in as well (again, they may not take over, it just depends.. If the speeder eludes capture, and makes it across state lines, then the FBI would then be the ones to get called up, and they probably WOULD take over completely (or just let him go, put out an APB and nab him when he showed up at his destination).

Or you could just check on Wiki....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_the_United_States

The thing to realise is that there's a strong culture in the US of state resistance to federal intervention.

This resistance was balanced against the increasing need for national co-ordination of police in the 1920s and 30s, when the spread of motor vehicles made it possible for criminals to cross state lines very quickly. So the FBI became this kind of compromise solution, given authority over specific crimes, originally kidnapping and bank robberies (because of the tendency of criminals to drive over state lines to avoid local police), but now expanded to white collar crime, protection of civil liberties, protection from terrorism and basically whatever else they can lobby to have put under their purview. What's really weird is that the operation that really gave the FBI authority was the muder of several policemen and FBI agents in the bungled rescue of Frank Nash by Pretty Boy Floyd... an investigation the FBI had no jurisdiction over at the time as killing a federal agent was not a federal crime.

At the same time you also have a whole bunch of other bureaus with largely similar briefs, albeit dedicated to different specfic crimes (DEA and ATF, in particular).

In short, it's a mess, but it's a mess that fits particularly well with American ideas about local and federal government, and given the only way to clean it up would be to streamline the federal organisations (thereby making one more powerful organisation) and clarifying levels of authority between the state and federal government (likely ceding more power to the federal government), I doubt it's going to change any time soon.

If you're interested in how it all developed originally, read Public Enemies, the non-fiction story of the start of the FBI and high profile criminals that created it. The Johnny Depp movie was based on it. Regardless of what you might have thought of the movie, the book is a cracking good read.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:From the top of my head, there are:

Okay, to try to answer these:

Sherrifs,

County

US Marshalls,

Something

FBI,

Federal

State Troopers,

State

highway patrol,

Stuff related to the interstates.

National Guard,

Not cops.

City Police,

Local cops responsible for handling 99% of things going on in their town.

ATF,

Regulating gun sales, hunting down moonshiners.

DEA,

Drug smuggling.

NSA,

Sitting in a cubicle and handling information.

Homeland,

Embezzling funds, saying scary things, pretending to fight terrorists.

texas rangers,

Enforce the Texan way or something.

city police, state police,

You said these already.

justice department, district attorneys,

Judges and attorneys in the employ of the state. Probably includes prison officials etc as well.

ninjas etc etc.

Neither a department nor law enforcement.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:Sherrifs

A sheriff is the head of a county police force.

City Police

Pretty much what the name suggests.

State Troopers

Police who work for a state (state police). I think (don't quote me) highway patrolmen are state troopers.

US Marshalls

The US Marshals are a federal service that basically is the guard dog of the Judiciary (They work for the executive branch of course). They protect witness, judges, courts, and may apprehend fugitives and what not.

FBI

Federal police. They do what most cops do except at the federal level. Crimes that cross state boundaries are their job.

National Guard

The NG are part of the United States Army and are not Law Enforcement.

ATF

Alcohol, Tabacco, and Firearms. Kind of a left over of the 20's we don't necessarily need anymore (as they do a lot of the same things the FBI and DEA do). ATF enforces regulations on, surprise, Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. These days mostly firearms I think.

DEA

Drug Enforcement Administration is the AFT for drugs that aren't Alcohol and Tobacco.

NSA

The National Security Agency is part of the Department of Defense and not law enforcement.

Homeland

Homeland what? Security? They deal with federal immigration, customs, and boarder enforcement. The Coast Guard and the Secret Service fall under their umbrella these days.

texas rangers

A bunch of Texas state cops with a fancy name.

justice department

The judiciary.

district attorneys

An administrator (more or less) who handles the prosecution of crimes within a district.

ninjas

We use them for everything. Killing, cooking, assassination, cleaning, the works.

Naturally, jurisdicition goes from top to bottom. FBI, DEA, and ATF naturally at the top, then to the state level, then to counties, and cities/townships. Now, in your case, the first thing to remember is that it's fiction. The second is that even if the federal authority supersedes the lower sheriff, the sheriff can still make things difficult for the feds if he wants to and there is a legal argument that the FBI cannot investigate local matters, only crimes that cross state borders. A local murder for example is not their jurisdiction, but a murder who kills in one state and then jumps ship to another and murders again is.

The ATF also burns down cult compounds that militias then use as an excuse to create domestic terrorist plots.

Oh Waco. You done inspired a buncha wackos.

The Sheriff is actually an elected official, but the Sheriff's department as a whole is run by the Sheriff and Sheriff deputies are typically what you'll see. They usually act as bailiffs and carry out other aspects of daily law enforcement roles( prison guards, wardens, and even DARE spokespeople).

Now Sheriff's are typically county officials, but sometimes cities count as an individual county so there may be a 'City' Sheriff's Department.

Police Officers are local and remain in the city and or town they are hired in.

State Troopers and Highway Patrol are two different entities in some places. The difference being Highway Patrol has jurisdiction over the highway and State Troopers have jurisdiction across the entire state and highways.

The FBI is relatively new and is a nation wide department of justice. Local law enforcement can intervene in FBI affairs by denying giving them evidence. Although the FBI can try to supercede local law enforcement if necessary(ie in cases involving crimes in multiple states).

ATF is Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms and deal with illegal firearms procurement and other illegal activities involving the items in its name.

DEA as mentioned are more into stopping illegal drug shipments, things like marijuana and cocaine.

If you visit the states you'll go through the TSA, who will inspect your baggage(maybe by opening it up).

If you get drunk and cause an issue you'll deal with local/city police. If you get pulled over on the highway you'll probably deal with a state trooper on the east coast and maybe a highway patrol officer in the midwest.

If you go to court you'll deal with Sheriffs' deputies and Marshalls.

Of course, the best thing to do would be to avoid gaining the attention of any and all law enforcement officials.

Of course there's also campus police and military police but they tend to follow their names. Campus police have jurisdiction over the campus and military police have jurisdiction over military bases and the surrounding area.

LordofHats wrote:
Homeland what? Security? They deal with federal immigration, customs, and boarder enforcement. The Coast Guard and the Secret Service fall under their umbrella these days.

They also handle disaster relief via FEMA, and run the TSA.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:So what do all these branches do, and who has this magical word jurisdiction?

To further what others have said, jurisdiction is based on the crime committed and the geographical location of either where the crime was committed or where the suspect is fleeing.

The FBI doesn't have jurisdiction if there's no federal crime (usually related to drugs, national security or involving illegal transactions across state line) and the suspect is within the boundaries of a state.

Also, to briefly correct LordofHats and Sir Pseudonymous, the justice department is not realted to the judiciary (judges), but is the federal executive agency that handles prosecution of crimes against the laws of the United States, defend the US against lawsuits, and deal with legal issues (essentially civil suits) between the US and foreign countries.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:I was watching the X files the other day, and I was surprised to see the Federal duo being thwarted at at every turn by the proverbial Sheriff, who kept talking about jurisdiction. This surprised me as I was under the mistaken impression that since the Hoover boys were goverment agents, they had free reign. Now I realise I know squat about law and order in America and seeing as I will be visiting in July, I was wondering if the good people of Dakka could fill in the blanks. There are so many different branches it beggars belief! So what do all these branches do, and who has this magical word jurisdiction?

From the top of my head, there are: Sherrifs, US Marshalls, FBI, State Troopers, highway patrol, National Guard, City Police, ATF, DEA, NSA, Homeland, texas rangers, city police, state police, justice department, district attorneys, ninjas etc etc.

Texas Rangers uber alles.

Federal agents have jurisdiction over federal crimes. State agents have jurisdiction over state crimes, and depending on the state, over the local guys. The local guys handle local crimes. Note however, that you may get state guys called if greater aid is needed for a local item and sometimes federal depending on expertise and the crime (especially the FBI with its greater lab and research resources). Also several of the agencies you noted as specific duties (Marshals transport federal prisoners, serve federal warrants, the IRS and DMV specialize in civilian torture that sort of thing).

DA's are local.
State police and Texas rangers are state. You may also have SBI (state bureau of investigation).
Federal noted above: BATF (we hates them don't we precious!); DEA, FBI, US Marshalls, Homeland Security.
NSA is spy stuff and not cops.
National Guard are not involved unless its some sort of police function after a major catastrophe. They are military.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ahtman wrote:The ATF also burns down cult compounds that militias then use as an excuse to create domestic terrorist plots.

Yes.

Thanks for the replys. Helgrenze, the article was the logical place to start, but what I needed was a quick run down.

But at any rate, what a bureaucratic mess!

So hypothetically, If I went on a Bonnie and Clyde style crime spree from New York to Texas, I would have at least a dozen different agencies on my tail? Also, would I have to make a court appearance in every state a crime was committed in? And if by some miracle I reached Texas and was captured, would I be spending the rest of my days in Texas?

The thing to remember is that the US started off as a collection of independent states with a federal government with very limited powers and funding. While the Federal government now is much more powerful than it used to be, the states are still sovereign entities with an existence that depends on the constitution, not just a federal law. As I understand the UK, it also used to be a collection of independent countries, but over time it's been established Parliament and the Monarch have absolute authority to pass any laws, there's no concept of a limited Federal government. Most Eurpean countries today are strongly federal AFAIK, the national government does what it wants, and lower levels like cities and provinces only have powers because the national government delegates them, they're not considered independent.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:So hypothetically, If I went on a Bonnie and Clyde style crime spree from New York to Texas, I would have at least a dozen different agencies on my tail? Also, would I have to make a court appearance in every state a crime was committed in? And if by some miracle I reached Texas and was captured, would I be spending the rest of my days in Texas?

Individual states are sovereign, so if you're wanted for crimes in multiple states there are extradition proceedings between states. Generally the way things work out is that your first trial is in whatever state you did the worst things in, but you can be tried (and sentenced) by each state for each crime. If you're also wanted for federal crimes there's something like extradition for a Federal court, though I think there's a different name for it. While the state that catches you gets first dibs on you, there's no requirement that you spend all of your time there. If the worst that you did in Texas was resisting arrest and speeding, but you killed people in New York, then you might spend 60 days in jail for the resisting charge, but you'd end up in New York to face life (or execution) on the charges there.

This happens for less dramatic crimes too - say if you rob a house in Virginia, then move to Nevada and steal a car, and cops know you did both of these and have warrants, then you move to California and get arrested for having a gun. California will arrest you and put you in jail for the gun charges, and since other states have warrants for you, won't release you at the end of the sentence, but instead will transport you to one of the other states if they're willing to pay for it, where you face a trial and jail/prison time. That state will then do the same thing for the last state.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:Thanks for the replys. Helgrenze, the article was the logical place to start, but what I needed was a quick run down.

But at any rate, what a bureaucratic mess!

So hypothetically, If I went on a Bonnie and Clyde style crime spree from New York to Texas, I would have at least a dozen different agencies on my tail? Also, would I have to make a court appearance in every state a crime was committed in? And if by some miracle I reached Texas and was captured, would I be spending the rest of my days in Texas?

You would be wanted by the FBI and you could be arrested by any law enforcement agency and you would face trial in each state. But no you wouldn't sepnd the rest of your days in a Texas jail, you would spend a couple of months in a Texas jail and then a few minutes in an electric chair.

halonachos wrote:

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:Thanks for the replys. Helgrenze, the article was the logical place to start, but what I needed was a quick run down.

But at any rate, what a bureaucratic mess!

So hypothetically, If I went on a Bonnie and Clyde style crime spree from New York to Texas, I would have at least a dozen different agencies on my tail? Also, would I have to make a court appearance in every state a crime was committed in? And if by some miracle I reached Texas and was captured, would I be spending the rest of my days in Texas?

You would be wanted by the FBI and you could be arrested by any law enforcement agency and you would face trial in each state. But no you wouldn't sepnd the rest of your days in a Texas jail, you would spend a couple of months in a Texas jail and then a few minutes in an electric chair.

You'd actually spend 10-20 years in prison before being sentenced to death. We stopped using old sparky back in the 60s. It's all lethal injection, here.

You could face court in every state, but most likely they would just send you to where the worst crime or crimes were committed and/or where they have the most evidence and can therefore make their best case against you.

I was hoping that Texas' death penalty was more streamlined... at least tell me you guys kept the electric chair.

Nope. Not since the 60s.

kronk wrote:Nope. Not since the 60s.

I initially saw this as a reply to the OP's question

In recent history, the Texas Rangers were merged with the Texas Highway Patrol into the Texas Department of Public Safety. This organization enforces state-level criminal, traffic, and safety laws, as well as investigation and preventative measures for these laws. They also do education programs, trying to educate citizens of the various state laws and public safety in general.

The Texas Rangers still operate though, under this particular banner-- mostly as a state-level FBI of sorts, where the FBI enforces federal laws and investigates crimes of that nature, the Texas Rangers enforce state laws and investigate crimes under those laws.

kronk wrote:Nope. Not since the 60s.

In our defense the trial/appeals are a little more streamlined now.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:Thanks for the replys. Helgrenze, the article was the logical place to start, but what I needed was a quick run down.

But at any rate, what a bureaucratic mess!

So hypothetically, If I went on a Bonnie and Clyde style crime spree from New York to Texas, I would have at least a dozen different agencies on my tail? Also, would I have to make a court appearance in every state a crime was committed in? And if by some miracle I reached Texas and was captured, would I be spending the rest of my days in Texas?

Just don't get caught in New Hampshire or Washington... They still have Hanging as an option.

Utah has death by firing squad as an option, if you choose to go that way.

@ Frazzled, not good enough!

I remember when Texas justice meant a swift trip to the electric chair. Now its like comparing actual brewed sweet tea to instant tea, sure the results may be faster but they're nowhere near as cool.

halonachos wrote:Utah has death by firing squad as an option, if you choose to go that way.

@ Frazzled, not good enough!

I remember when Texas justice meant a swift trip to the electric chair. Now its like comparing actual brewed sweet tea to instant tea, sure the results may be faster but they're nowhere near as cool.

Don't blame me, blame them dern libers who clog up every case with mandatory appeals. Back in my day we just found a tree with a decent branch, or a pointy stick. But you had to be quick because the sabre toothed tigers and short faced bears were always about. Sweet memories.

How law enforcement in America works: run faster than them.